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V4 FOW thoughts


phyfor88

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After getting a few V4 mid war desert games played I have come to a few conclusions.

1. the game is well balanced and plays faster then V3,

2. Armies are fast to make and can be built easily on the fly.  I have had an idea of a force and built it rapidly and still had excellent games.

3. The rules are easier to learn and should attract more people to play. A huge win to our hobby. 

I wish I had more to report but my dice have been horrible recently so my battles have been tainted. I cannot blame that on the game, my dice may need to be introduced to my blow torch, and the threat of melting applied. Overall I really am enjoying V4 mid war, and look forward to branching out to late and early war later this year.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have been so preoccupied that I have not been able to buckle down and play V4.  Good to hear good things.  

 

My current challenge is the hobby is dead in Olympia.  I see a scattered game every once in a blue moon, I assume pre-arranged, but there is no regular show up and play thing any more and no activity on the local boards to encourage new players.  Dylan took to Infinity like a fish to water, and many of the old group play it with him instead.  Its not that they don't ever play FOW anymore but its pretty infrequent now.  I think some action is happening in Tacoma still though!

I might just throw a couple armies on the table and get some players who are willing to learn with me, since its a new edition and they wont be any further behind than i am.  But then again, 8th Edition 40K is dropping and I gotta go learn that all over again so its a rough time for me to get free.  Also started writing a book which is time consuming.  maybe I need less hobbies.  hehehe.

 

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Played a couple more games. Assaults have changed completely. Only teams that get in base to base get to participate no more 8 inch bubble, platoons have to be tight together to use numbers.ETC ETC  Stuka dive bombers are amazing. The idea that Infantry are easier to kill or that tanks are better seems false. I believe that german armor is overpriced, but Infantry are still amazing. Brits have the Grant a cheap powerhouse 2 guns that shoot every round, need a 4 base to hit it, and great armor for a screaming deal of 6 points.  Expect to see Grants and stukas in most V4 games. I have yet to see artillery be of any use yet, but may be better in a INF VS INF game that I have not played yet, nut is pricey at 14pts for 4 guns (either army).

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Played a good learning game last night at Oregon City Geeks & Games.

A friend of mine lent me his british stuff to use, 120 pts wysiwyg. Had a basic infantry company, a basic crusader II company (with a grant platoon), a full Honey Stuart company (with a grant platoon), 25 pdr arty, OP stuart, and a couple Hurricanes.  That,s a lot of stuff especially now that HQ are considered platoons. The game I played was against mostly uparmored PzIII, arty, inf plt, couple 8rads and a couple 88s.  

1) Airplanes did alright, they were able to get on board 50% and they did knock out the 88s and a PzIII.  you have to have 2x airplanes and the wave off is not measured 16" from friendly troops to airplane but 8" from friendly troops to targeted teams allowing planes to operate closer to friendly troops. those huricanes were fun to use.

2) Was surprised  to see the stuart being slower than the crusaders (as far as tactical move & shoot ability).  But on the "Dash" moves, the stuart is faster.

3) platoon morale check after being shot at is now done during the players opening turn after teams have a chance to bail-in, un-bog etc (not after they were shot at and again on your turn when you are below strength). Now these Brits I was using are formed into 3x team platoons. After 2 tanks are knocked out they have to start rolling for morale and the Brit built in morale is 5+ which makes them run easily, but they are cheaper and therefore more platoons so you don't lose your entire army to a dice roll.

4) Artillery, yeah I know that they neutered its ability to kill tanks. In V3 the game did favor infantry and allowed anything to kill tanks causing the metagame to evolve into mostly infantry companies at tournaments and making it very hard for tank companies to compete.  This is why I agree with pairing down the arty.  But ranged in token placement is better since it doesn't have to be on a team, you can place that marker anywhere, and Mortars also get ranged in token.  

All in all the game was still fun, still same amount of time, just a different flavor. I did win the game, not by taking objectives but by forcing company morale which they couldn't make because the Huricanes blasted his only CIC. Since I am mostly a "Beer & Pretzles" type of player (meaning I don't get uber tourny competetive just playing a game) this new V4 is no problem & makes some things more fun rather than work. Will be playing more.

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I believe that some of the design decisions were focused on bringing FoW back to combined arms principles, or for the non-military types: "rock-paper-scissors"

Hopefully, we will see fewer armies of all of one combat arm: All infantry, or all tank.

Don't think I ever saw an All-guns army list, but you never know...someone might have tried it.

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My biggest issue right now with 4th is that the mid war roll-out is far too slow. It is my preferred period and the choice to go with very restricted lists just does not appeal to me. So my option is to play the same stuff over and over again, and maybe they will eventually roll out more stuff for those factions. And it has been a couple of months and still no new factions. I know why they are doing it...but it is not drawing me in to play. Not when I have a new version of 40K that dropped, and I can play updated versions of all my armies from day one.

Big shame because I was really looking forward to getting back into FoW. But their roll-out is not appealing to me. Who knows, maybe in a year enough stuff will have been released to make it worth looking at again.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Having been playing Team-Yankee for the past 8 months, I am seeing how popular it has become especially with its rules design type & features. So, BF decided to align its other popular game FoW to be a similar style.  

As for the slowness of roll-out, BF is trying to come out with material for both TY and FoW.  Unlike GW where costs of material keeps going up everytime I look at their shelves, BF also trying to come up with cheaper products which means slightly smaller books to keep them around $20 and cheaper models requires doing more in plastic which takes more time & resources to make molds for mass production.  A huge part of the slowness of product would also be the model makers themselves as there aren't that many and we have seen what happens when they try using other modelers (see the ugly US armored rifle figures, that modeler didn't last long).

I don't mind slowness so long as the quality is there.  I hate crappy molded models and rushed printing that requires FAQs to fix it afterward. Take the extra little time to do it right.

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I

2 hours ago, ZEKE said:

I don't mind slowness so long as the quality is there.  I hate crappy molded models and rushed printing that requires FAQs to fix it afterward. Take the extra little time to do it right.

I agree with Zeke.

BF's quality has actually improved, while their prices have come down.

  • Resin/metal models = $12.50 ea in box set,

vs

  • Plastic models = $8.00 ea (sometimes less) in box set

If that means that roll-out is slower, that's a fair trade-off for me.

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BroG & E,  

After re-reading my earlier post, it kinda looked like I was trying to argue against you two, trust me I'm not.  I just try to look at positive sides of things.

   I am also waiting for Mid-War americans and have been hesitant about doing v4 for other stuff (EW, LW) as I'm trying to stick to the new Rule book.  I know there is still a lot of mid-war stuff they can do and a lot of us that do have other stuff like Italians, Russians, Finns, Americans are getting really anxious about wanting to throw down.

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Been using some borrowed Brits so I learn the V4 rules and it's been fun.  Play is a little smoother & slightly quicker with the data cards (so worth it if they come out with a pack of them that you can purchase).

Airplanes are really fun.  They are more interactive with the game and can operate closer to your troops.  You'll get them 1/2 the time on average. You get 2 planes, each one shooting at their own targets. But as they get shot down, they don't come back, just like the rest of your army.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Havent gotten a single game in for 4th Edition.  I bought the books, tried to understand the cards thing and realized I didnt feel up to the cards thing since it doesnt seem clear where I get thesecards.  

That's where I left it.  I feel like I need to get more informed.  Never felt this lost with this game but I kind of am?  I dunno.  It's weird.  I am going to need some help getting into this version, it seems.

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It is actually simple. We are used to far more complex rules and ideas so our mind rejects it, the problem with being smart. It takes a few goes and it all kind of clicks, it is a mostly new game. It is fun and that is key. They really put some thought and work into making a great balance. We have a tourney in portland in september. It is a learner so do not worry if you have not got any games in just get a list together and come have some fun. If you need help building a list we can help with that as well.

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1. If you do not have the relevant handbooks, then get one:
FW242 Afrika Korps - German Forces In The Desert 1942-43
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=79&ProductID=7150

FW241 Desert Rats - British Forces In The Desert 1942-43
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=79&ProductID=7148

2. Once you have the book, constructing your force is described.

3. The book has the same information as the UNIT cards.

4. This series of videos should help.
Youtube Playlist: Flames Of War 4th Edition Boot Camp
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMAqo-ZiJZPSbPf4D-t-AtBGFEfzYw3Ch

5. If you want to get together to do a walk-thru or tutorial in AUGUST, let's PM to set that up.

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10 hours ago, phyfor88 said:

It is actually simple. We are used to far more complex rules and ideas so our mind rejects it, the problem with being smart. It takes a few goes and it all kind of clicks, it is a mostly new game. It is fun and that is key. They really put some thought and work into making a great balance. We have a tourney in portland in september. It is a learner so do not worry if you have not got any games in just get a list together and come have some fun. If you need help building a list we can help with that as well.

I think I heard something about this tournament before...

I may have invented it and maaaaaay be holding on to the trophy for it from last year... 

=)

V4 is definitely a new thing.  I guess my brain is rejecting it Phyfor88

@Barca, I got the Afrika Korps book (of course because: Rommel) and the Midwar Rules.  Building forces threw me.  Part of my hesitation is the feeling that I may not be understanding it correctly.  

Lack of practice for a long time has also dulled me probably.  I think a sit down over the phone might straighten me out.  I need the human interaction perhaps.  I am an audial learner primarily so it helps me.

 

 

 

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Been playing FoW for ten years, and this is the most confused I've been about what I actually need to play a new version, ever. They way it was rolled out and the whole card thing of "you don't need them, yet everyone has them and it helps, just go ahead and buy them" and the crappy lists and slow release sorta killed it for me. The US is being introduced, which will help me a lot, since I'm not cool and don't have a desert army but Tunisian Tigers, a list which also was binned (for some odd reason). Got tons of Americans though. 

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3 hours ago, Josh said:

Been playing FoW for ten years, and this is the most confused I've been about what I actually need to play a new version, ever. They way it was rolled out and the whole card thing of "you don't need them, yet everyone has them and it helps, just go ahead and buy them" and the crappy lists and slow release sorta killed it for me. The US is being introduced, which will help me a lot, since I'm not cool and don't have a desert army but Tunisian Tigers, a list which also was binned (for some odd reason). Got tons of Americans though. 

 

With you.   Except I borrowed a friends british stuff and bought the Desert Rats book so I can play and get used to this new version. 

Technically, if you buy the book, ie desert rats, you don't need the cards. But, the new book doesn't have Arsenal pages at the back so I have been constantly thumbing through the pages looking for stat lines.  You can fix that just by copying the pages you want and make your own cards.  The cards are extremely helpful to have during game play.  For those of us that already have the miniatures, it would be very helpful if Battlefront sold a Pack of Cards.

I will say that as a hobbyist/painter myself these new models are great.

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Gordianus and I tried to play a while back. The play itself wasn't bad. There were a few things we didn't quite understand, and may have gotten wrong. The hardest part for me was actually coming up with a legal force even though I've got plenty of brits and DAK. I'm not a fan of the current lists. Too restrictive in my mind. And who's bright idea was it to include a stand that no one ever used before in DAK infantry and now make it required?? That was just plain dumb. It seems like they went out of their way to make it difficult for me to use my existing models to play v4. I'm sure that isn't true, but that is what it feels like.

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