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Looking to build a 40k community


Lyraeus

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With the advent of 8th edition coming ever closer I am looking at starting a 40k night at The Portland Game Store. 

While not a big store it is friendly, clean, and easy to access. The owners are cool and the staff friendly. 

They have not had much time to 40k there and no one to help build the community but since I enjoy the place (and already volunteer for 2 other games), I want to help expand this as well. Tables are at about the Guardian Games level (they use table toppers) and the terrain is decent. 

 

As for me, I am building Tau for my new 40k army (not for the OP, though I think 8th will bring a balance of sorts) and I am enjoying applying battle damage to the models. So let me know what you think! 

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21 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

With the advent of 8th edition coming ever closer I am looking at starting a 40k night at The Portland Game Store. 

While not a big store it is friendly, clean, and easy to access. The owners are cool and the staff friendly. 

They have not had much time to 40k there and no one to help build the community but since I enjoy the place (and already volunteer for 2 other games), I want to help expand this as well. Tables are at about the Guardian Games level (they use table toppers) and the terrain is decent. 

 

As for me, I am building Tau for my new 40k army (not for the OP, though I think 8th will bring a balance of sorts) and I am enjoying applying battle damage to the models. So let me know what you think! 

Consistency is the main thing. As long as someone shows up, at every single game night, you will gradually gain regulars.

Beyond that, the players and the store need to encourage eachother to stay: Players need to suggest financial support of the store to eachother, and this is coupled with a gamestore that avoids making things difficult for players to buy things in the store. On the gamestore end, this means having game related things in stock or being reliable in getting those things ordered (either is fine). 

And if the game (or game components) cannot be purchased in the store, the store needs to have something else the player can purchase, something they need, which will allow the player to support the game store while continuing their hobby, despite making their game purchases elsewhere. Food and beverages are good options here, even if they cost a bit more than the minimart down the street, as it allows the player to support their gamestore. Forge World, is an example of 40k game components which usually cannot be purchased in the store.

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49 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Consistency is the main thing. As long as someone shows up, at every single game night, you will gradually gain regulars.

Beyond that, the players and the store need to encourage eachother to stay: Players need to suggest financial support of the store to eachother, and this is coupled with a gamestore that avoids making things difficult for players to buy things in the store. On the gamestore end, this means having game related things in stock or being reliable in getting those things ordered (either is fine). 

And if the game (or game components) cannot be purchased in the store, the store needs to have something else the player can purchase, something they need, which will allow the player to support the game store while continuing their hobby, despite making their game purchases elsewhere. Food and beverages are good options here, even if they cost a bit more than the minimart down the street, as it allows the player to support their gamestore. Forge World, is an example of 40k game components which usually cannot be purchased in the store.

All wonderfully valid and factual! Sadly since the 40k scene has not been that big they only have the basic shelf. Unlike Guardian Games. Thankfully they give discounts on things they don't stock miniature wise typically and the people behind the counter can tell you if they do or do not have the ability to order something.

The Portland Game Store is actually going to pass the make or break point for most stores (2 years) and they are quickly becoming a very strong store all around. I have been a Volunteer with them since October 2015 or so and they got started that July.

They have snacks and beverages and some alcohol on tap and in can so they have that covered. Unlike Guardian though they are more of a board game store with an influence in miniatures where Guardian is the giant Jack of all trades store.

 

I plan on creating a regular 40k day but there are limitations. for a plan to make it big it would have to be on a Monday more than likely but they play infinity then, Tuesday is Malifaux, Shadow War, and other miniature games, Wednesday is X-Wing League, Thursday is Warmachine. Friday is Armada and X-Wing but I guess that night is not so busy, Saturday is Dropfleet Commander (one of my other Volunteer days) and at night is a board game mixer Sunday is a tournament day. . . Hmmmmm

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12 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

All wonderfully valid and factual! Sadly since the 40k scene has not been that big they only have the basic shelf. Unlike Guardian Games. Thankfully they give discounts on things they don't stock miniature wise typically and the people behind the counter can tell you if they do or do not have the ability to order something.

The Portland Game Store is actually going to pass the make or break point for most stores (2 years) and they are quickly becoming a very strong store all around. I have been a Volunteer with them since October 2015 or so and they got started that July.

They have snacks and beverages and some alcohol on tap and in can so they have that covered. Unlike Guardian though they are more of a board game store with an influence in miniatures where Guardian is the giant Jack of all trades store.

 

I plan on creating a regular 40k day but there are limitations. for a plan to make it big it would have to be on a Monday more than likely but they play infinity then, Tuesday is Malifaux, Shadow War, and other miniature games, Wednesday is X-Wing League, Thursday is Warmachine. Friday is Armada and X-Wing but I guess that night is not so busy, Saturday is Dropfleet Commander (one of my other Volunteer days) and at night is a board game mixer Sunday is a tournament day. . . Hmmmmm

Guardian Games does have a wide selection, but they are terrible for ordering GW miniatures. You order a miniature and they "might" get it soon, but it may also take weeks and weeks, or never arrive. This may have changed, but I learned a while ago not to order models from them. GG has a good in-store selection, so their lack of ability to reliably order GW models isn't really an issue. If your store can reliably order models, having a small selection isn't a huge problem for creating a player base. 

Regarding the size of the store, don't worry about comparing to Guardian Games. GG started in 2005, they have 10 years on you. Focus on getting that level of 40k player base in 10 years, not instantly. And game stores shouldn't be competing with other gamestores, anyway, as the goal is growing the player base, not competing for players. Think of the game store as a farm, your are raising gamers to be gamers and give birth to future gamers. If done right, eventually, everyone will be a gamer, and then competing will be a thing, but not until then. Guardian Games' success should actually help The Portland Game Store, not hinder it, at least long term, as it means there will be more gamers to profit from. 

As for having a game night, this is very important. The biggest factor when buying a social game (as in a game that requires other people) is knowing if you'll be able to play regularly or not. The potential player is "investing" their time and finances in this game with the hopes of gaining enjoyment through social interaction with this product as the medium required to do so. If your store doesn't have a reliable group to play the game with, the projected gain from the investment goes down, and your potental player is likely to buy another game, or buy that game at another store. And 40k is a very expensive game in both finances and time required, so to gain players, you need to make the investment seem worthwhile. 

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10 minutes ago, paxmiles said:
 

Guardian Games does have a wide selection, but they are terrible for ordering GW miniatures. You order a miniature and they "might" get it soon, but it may also take weeks and weeks, or never arrive. This may have changed, but I learned a while ago not to order models from them. GG has a good in-store selection, so their lack of ability to reliably order GW models isn't really an issue. If your store can reliably order models, having a small selection isn't a huge problem for creating a player base. 

Regarding the size of the store, don't worry about comparing to Guardian Games. GG started in 2005, they have 10 years on you. Focus on getting that level of 40k player base in 10 years, not instantly. And game stores shouldn't be competing with other gamestores, anyway, as the goal is growing the player base, not competing for players. Think of the game store as a farm, your are raising gamers to be gamers and give birth to future gamers. If done right, eventually, everyone will be a gamer, and then competing will be a thing, but not until then. Guardian Games' success should actually help The Portland Game Store, not hinder it, at least long term, as it means there will be more gamers to profit from. 

As for having a game night, this is very important. The biggest factor when buying a social game (as in a game that requires other people) is knowing if you'll be able to play regularly or not. The potential player is "investing" their time and finances in this game with the hopes of gaining enjoyment through social interaction with this product as the medium required to do so. If your store doesn't have a reliable group to play the game with, the projected gain from the investment goes down, and your potental player is likely to buy another game, or buy that game at another store. And 40k is a very expensive game in both finances and time required, so to gain players, you need to make the investment seem worthwhile.

 

 

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Since Spoiler is being generated silly... 

"I don't know what their orders will look like. They have several distributors so they have options and will look for the best option plus there is the discount but I have to double check how that works for GW merchandise. 

I do know they have some interesting kits and even a Knight in Stock but it is a basic display case. "

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That GG league for 40k does a thing where they offer 5% (or was it 10%?) off GW products during game night if you are in the league and bring your army to play (so you can't just pay league dues for a discount if you aren't playing). The League itself costs $10 per month, which just covers minor prizes and helps pay for the terrain. People are allowed to play 40k during game night without paying league dues, but the only the league members get the discount and the prizes. With 40k, it's very easy for a regular to effectively make the league "free" with just a few 40k purchases each month. League prizes are just gift cards to GG, which are often used to pay league dues for future months.

As for cash flow, I don't think the league night itself is a huge money maker for GG. It goes back to the farming concept, it's a pretty inexpensive way to enjoy 40k (the league dues are inexpensive, 40k remains expensive) and the presence of the 40k players on a regular basis creates value in an investment for this social game. That allows the pontential players to see value investing time and finances in this game. And that grows the gamer base, which improves future profits.

Additionally, I've heard many times from GG employees, that the presence of a game night helps to allow them to predict which days they'll need to reorder their 40k inventory, which is helpful for running the business. So the Game Night essentially controls which day their regulars will make purchases, even if it doesn't change the number of purchases in a given week. 

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3 hours ago, paxmiles said:

That GG league for 40k does a thing where they offer 5% (or was it 10%?) off GW products during game night if you are in the league and bring your army to play (so you can't just pay league dues for a discount if you aren't playing). The League itself costs $10 per month, which just covers minor prizes and helps pay for the terrain. People are allowed to play 40k during game night without paying league dues, but the only the league members get the discount and the prizes. With 40k, it's very easy for a regular to effectively make the league "free" with just a few 40k purchases each month. League prizes are just gift cards to GG, which are often used to pay league dues for future months.

As for cash flow, I don't think the league night itself is a huge money maker for GG. It goes back to the farming concept, it's a pretty inexpensive way to enjoy 40k (the league dues are inexpensive, 40k remains expensive) and the presence of the 40k players on a regular basis creates value in an investment for this social game. That allows the pontential players to see value investing time and finances in this game. And that grows the gamer base, which improves future profits.

Additionally, I've heard many times from GG employees, that the presence of a game night helps to allow them to predict which days they'll need to reorder their 40k inventory, which is helpful for running the business. So the Game Night essentially controls which day their regulars will make purchases, even if it doesn't change the number of purchases in a given week. 

Yup. I used to be a part of that league. That is a consideration but the discount for PGS is at all orders of products they don't stock. Since they have a small case that is typically the bare bones GW case, that is a lot of products. I just have to confirm it. 

 

From there a league is a great idea, I don't have much experience running them. 

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6 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

From there a league is a great idea, I don't have much experience running them. 

Very simple. BRB or ITC has missions, Organizer selects one at random and everyone does it. Pairing can be done in an organized manner, or can just be related to who signed up first or who shows up first. Main thing is that you need a designated final judge for rules disputes (and rule questions), they need to know the rules well enough to judge. Group should also have a defined list of legal sources for rules, since 40k has lots of rules, some of which are truly unpleasent to use for a social event. 

GG league, presently, uses ITC missions and the ITC format for tournaments to determine what is legal for 40k. Rules disputes are handled by asking other players regarding the ITC rulings, as most of it is covered. In the Past, before the ITC, the GG league was using a houserule that banned FW rules and allowed anything sold in the store - this worked until GW put superheavies into the normal game. Since they are using tournament rules, the GG league is rather harsh in list builds, which can be unpleasent for players looking for a softer game. 

League rules also present another consistency thing. As certain models become better if they are legal in local play, while other models become less desirable if banned or limited in normal play. As a new player, it can be upseting to learn that the models bought in the store, cannot be used in your army during the league from that store. On the other hand, models are often banned with good reason. 

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9 hours ago, WestRider said:

I would definitely wait until 8th drops before working out any Rules for your League. That's going to be a very literal game changer.

That is the plan. I can sort the structure though.

 

17 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Very simple. BRB or ITC has missions, Organizer selects one at random and everyone does it. Pairing can be done in an organized manner, or can just be related to who signed up first or who shows up first. Main thing is that you need a designated final judge for rules disputes (and rule questions), they need to know the rules well enough to judge. Group should also have a defined list of legal sources for rules, since 40k has lots of rules, some of which are truly unpleasent to use for a social event. 

GG league, presently, uses ITC missions and the ITC format for tournaments to determine what is legal for 40k. Rules disputes are handled by asking other players regarding the ITC rulings, as most of it is covered. In the Past, before the ITC, the GG league was using a houserule that banned FW rules and allowed anything sold in the store - this worked until GW put superheavies into the normal game. Since they are using tournament rules, the GG league is rather harsh in list builds, which can be unpleasent for players looking for a softer game. 

League rules also present another consistency thing. As certain models become better if they are legal in local play, while other models become less desirable if banned or limited in normal play. As a new player, it can be upseting to learn that the models bought in the store, cannot be used in your army during the league from that store. On the other hand, models are often banned with good reason. 

BRB? ITC like Infinity?

 

I would be looking to create something more friendly.

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BRB is slang for "Big Rule Book" which references the main 40k rulebook, even if you are using one of the miniature versions. GW is well known for their lack of clear rules, dire need for FAQs that never get written, and FAQs that create more questions or rule imbalance. With luck, that will not be an issue in the new edition, but the GW track record of the past serveral editions is very lacking in the clarity of their rules writting and sheer lack of playtesting. So anyone's guess if the new edition will need a group like the ITC to fix it.

The ITC is a group that runs competitive events for 40k across the states, and probably in other countries too. They are not part of GW, but they were created, more or less, to address GW's lack of viable FAQs and rules for for compeditive play during 6th and 7th edition. Before them, the group filling the same role was Adepticon. 

Regarding friendly Vs compeditive play, the name is a bit of a misgnomer. The Friendly play is more the guys that just want to have fun playing the game. The Compeditive guys are also trying to have fun, but they only have fun while being challenged by their opponents. They aren't mutually exclusive groups, as there is much overlap, but the outliers won't enjoy eachother's view of what 40k is supposed to be. The Friendly play group is definitely better for players that are very young, this group also includes players that care more about the 40k scenario being accurate to the plot than the actual balance of the scenario. The compeditive group wants even sides, caring more about game balance and rules, than the actual scenario. Compeditive players tend to be highschool thru middle aged, but doesn't seem to include many old guys (though this could also be because the game itself is only like 37 years old). And again, there is much overlap, with many players fitting into both groups seemlessly.

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17 hours ago, Brick Bungalow said:

 

I have never been there and didn't know where it was. Just in case anyone else hasn't either: http://www.theportlandgamestore.com/

Should of thought of that! >.<

Yea it's not big. Smaller than Red Castle bigger than Time Vault, it has about 6 tables worth of table toppers and is not oppressively busy like Guardian Games can get. Could use more terrain but it is a great store with a cider and Reiner on tap and more drinks in cans. It. Has snacks, drinks, is open to all ages (unlike Guardians table top room) and is relaxing. Oh and the have tall chairs. Good access to nearby food too! 

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Then I was right, it's that one in North Portland. I think I met the owner shortly before the business started, but it wasn't a formal meeting, so I doubt they recall. Nice Person.

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On May 27, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Brick Bungalow said:

Thanks for the link.

Serious suggestion for the web site: Include directions on how to get there via Trimet. Like which bus stops or max stations are near you. All I'm seeing is a link to a google map, which is limited in how helpful it can be. If your store is on a public transit line (pretty sure it is), including a link to the Trimet Site would be very smart. If your store has bicycle racks, mention it. Logistics is a huge part of making a game store work. 

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25 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Thanks for the link.

Serious suggestion for the web site: Include directions on how to get there via Trimet. Like which bus stops or max stations are near you. All I'm seeing is a link to a google map, which is limited in how helpful it can be. If your store is on a public transit line (pretty sure it is), including a link to the Trimet Site would be very smart. If your store has bicycle racks, mention it. Logistics is a huge part of making a game store work. 

I will let the two owners know. The options are the Yellow which is in a less than 10 min walking distance, 72 and the 4 so it has options.

 

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If you are looking for missions to run on league nights, I would suggest the Altar of War book over the ITC stuff. ITC is geared towards competitive play. And while that isn't a bad thing, I think it is safe to say GG has that scene on lock down. There is no point trying to pry those players from the tables there.

However, that does mean if you are a creative sort of person you might be able to entice some players to show up with some more narrative based missions and campaigns. 

Just a thought.

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31 minutes ago, Sugarlessllama said:

If you are looking for missions to run on league nights, I would suggest the Altar of War book over the ITC stuff. ITC is geared towards competitive play. And while that isn't a bad thing, I think it is safe to say GG has that scene on lock down. There is no point trying to pry those players from the tables there.

However, that does mean if you are a creative sort of person you might be able to entice some players to show up with some more narrative based missions and campaigns. 

Just a thought.

Some sort of modified Maelstrom might also be good. RAW Maelstrom has some issues, but there are some variants that make it way better, like AgentP's Annihilation-style system that we're using for the 40K OFCC this year.

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7 hours ago, WestRider said:

Some sort of modified Maelstrom might also be good. RAW Maelstrom has some issues, but there are some variants that make it way better, like AgentP's Annihilation-style system that we're using for the 40K OFCC this year.

Not sure what Maelstrom is or the difference between the two. 

I am always looking for more ideas! 

8 hours ago, Sugarlessllama said:

However, that does mean if you are a creative sort of person you might be able to entice some players to show up with some more narrative based missions and campaigns. 

Just a thought.

I enjoy being creative and would enjoy doing a campaign. Supposedly the 8th edition BRB has a campaign system so we shall see. 

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4 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Not sure what Maelstrom is or the difference between the two. 

I am always looking for more ideas!

Maelstrom Missions are the ones that use the Tactical Objective decks. Maelstrom of War is the full title in the Rulebook. There are a bunch of different specific Missions, but essentially, the point is that your Objectives change from Turn to Turn, which makes for some really interesting and fluid Games. The Rules for them as presented in the Rulebook have a bit too much randomness, and can too easily result in someone getting screwed by their draw, but there are a number of fan-made variants out there that mitigate that in various ways.

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