Smiling Skulls Space Marines

[Guest]

List creation stuff here. My faction is World Eaters for the Legion Keyword. Planning to attend GG league, which adheres to the ITC's rules. I'd love feedback on the list, confirmation that my math is accurate, and so forth. I doubt I'll have a viable list anytime soon, and I certainly intent to prioritize fully painted models over more tactically sound unpainted models. Low model count armies will be an initial goal, which will change as I get more models painted.

EDIT: Current list on page 8

[InfestedKerrigan]

A lil water will go a long ways.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

A lil water will go a long ways.

?

[InfestedKerrigan]

Also, you gain a CP by putting the Thirster in the Vanguard. 1-2 HQ

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Also, you gain a CP by putting the Thirster in the Vanguard. 1-2 HQ

Hmm...so I can mix Chaos Daemons and CSM in one detachment, huh? Wasn't sure.

[Guest]

Editted the above.

[WestRider]

You can mix, but you don't get your Legion Trait except for Units in a Detachment that all have the same Legion Keyword. So if you want the Helbrutes and Daemon Prince to actually be able to take advantage of the Renegade Trait, they need to be in a Detachment with no Chaos Daemons in.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I thought they put the demons in the book. 

 

Oh, I see. Ghetto.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Maybe Drop the Pred for some Letters?

[Guest]

6 hours ago, WestRider said:

You can mix, but you don't get your Legion Trait except for Units in a Detachment that all have the same Legion Keyword. So if you want the Helbrutes and Daemon Prince to actually be able to take advantage of the Renegade Trait, they need to be in a Detachment with no Chaos Daemons in.

Yeah...I just have the index, so I don't really know what the renegade trait does. Not looking to use rules I don't own.

 

5 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Maybe Drop the Pred for some Letters?

Pred is painted and painted is the priority. 

[WestRider]

5 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I thought they put the demons in the book. 

 

Oh, I see. Ghetto.

There are some Daemons in the book, basically for Summoning, but they don't have the Heretic Astartes or <Legion> Keywords, so they don't count for Legion Traits.

[WestRider]

1 minute ago, paxmiles said:

Yeah...I just have the index, so I don't really know what the renegade trait does. Not looking to use rules I don't own.

Might as well keep it in mind for when you do get the Codex. Renegade Trait lets them Advance and Charge in the same Turn. Nice for the Helbrutes with CCWs.

[Guest]

Got my first game in. Opponent was Eldar. We played a slow game which we decided was a draw at the end of turn 3. His force was light on anti-tank, which balanced against my noob army quite nicely.

I enjoyed myself. Opponent had a beautiful army and was a good natured player.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I thought they put the demons in the book. 

 

Oh, I see. Ghetto.

Yeah, that was the reason I bought the index instead of the CSM codex. I'll probably buy the CSM codex later, but the priority was buying rules for the models I already have.

[Guest]

Let's see, lots of thoughts since that first game.

I need more speed if I'm going to keep the melee theme (Bloodthirster was perfect, but nothing else could follow at that speed). A Rhino to start. Looking into other options. I don't have to keep the melee theme, but if I do, I need the speed. 

I had no psychic defense, though opponent had only a single mostly ineffective psyker, I should still address this. I noticed that the khorne hounds can now function as if they had a psychic hood, so I think I'll go that route. Alternatively, since I'm not actually going with world eaters, I could include a psyker with no-mark or another mark, without really impairing my Smiling Skulls from a fluff stance (theme is mostly making fun of ultramarines and really that's all it is...). 

40k in 8th reminds me of NBA Basketball - more focus on offense than on defense. I can't really protect my models since everything can hurt everything, so instead it's more a race to see what will outlast what. I've more of a Soccer mindset, so this is somewhat annoying, but I can adapt. 

Another point I missed on list creation is that my faction can be "chaos" rather than needing a more specific faction. So I could, techically, mix deities/legions within an army (though each legion would need it's own detachment). One of the guys at GG had Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights in a single force. 

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage ran into issues last game. The main issue was just that he can't disengage from melee very well. Sure he flies, but he doesn't have any ranged attacks and can't charge after falling back. So fleeing combat means denying an entire round of melee from this melee monster. Second big issue is that he can be tarpitted pretty easy. I found a similar issue with the Dreadnoughts. I need to look into options to get more melee attacks, or have them go into melee with support from other units (I pretty much dedicated each model to an enemy unit). 

Defiler sucks...I'm told he got fixed in the FAQ or in the CSM book, but the index version I ran the other day was not worth the points. Being able to target multiple things is the fix this odd model needed, but doesn't solve the low BS, low Attacks, and high point cost that this models features. If I do run him again, I need to find a way to increase his BS. I might look into fielding him as a soul grinder (mine is heavy conversion and isn't finished).

Tactics wise, I need to dedicate my Dreads in either a stationary or mobile kit, since the penalty to moving and firing is pretty impactful on the viability of their shooting. My dreads advanced all game, making those lascannons, multimeltas and missile launchers into a waste of points.  

Bloodthrone was iffy. Only a 6" move, which really makes him iffy. Hmmm...maybe he's FAQed.

I liked the khorne daemon prince with two sets of malefic talons. 

Seems like the difference in rules between my "free GW rulebook" and what is needed to play was a larger gap than I thought. One of the big ones was that ruin walls are only crossable by infantry, but I didn't get to learn this until after we set up the table with only ruins... Lots of little extra things like that came up and I had to adjust tactics mid-game for new rules that neither I nor my opponent knew about (we had lots of "bystanders" to help teach me the game).

I didn't have enough anti-infantry weapons. I need more models in general, but also specifically more weapons that can dish out lots of shots. 

EDIT: Oh, the pred, so he was fine, but I realised after turn 1 that he was my fastest unit on the table other than the bloodthirster, so when the thirster got tarpitted turn 1, I spent the new few turns going flat out (advancing) with my Predator, despite the sheer waste of doing so (can't shoot while advancing). It was the tactical play, but very much a waste created because the rest of the army was poorly constructed. 

[CaptainA]

Does your Daemon prince have wings? That would make him much faster.

[Guest]

Just now, CaptainA said:

Does your Daemon prince have wings? That would make him much faster.

Presently no. I was trying to keep him matching the model I was using, which is non-GW and is sort of like a Daemonic Ork Warboss with a very alien weapon and claws on each hand. But there's certainly room on the model for wings to be added, if I wanted. I also have another daemon prince, somewhere, that does have wings (and a sword).

Though regarding the daemonprince, I'm thinking I want him backfield if I run this list again, just because he's lowest toughness creature in the army... Additionally, as a Chaos Character with a decent number of wounds, I could use him for summoning. I need to look into how that works (are they free units, or do I need to set points aside for summoning like in AoS?). 

Oh, big question. Can units (like terminators or raptors) charge after arriving from reserve (as in teleportation, arriving from the skies, so forth)? Seems like I can, but the previous edition player in me has me second guessing it. Khorne has an Icon that grants re-rolling on charges, so this might actually be a viable option, instead of an iffy option, since I have to set up 9" away. 

[InfestedKerrigan]

12 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

 

Oh, big question. Can units (like terminators or raptors) charge after arriving from reserve (as in teleportation, arriving from the skies, so forth)? Seems like I can, but the previous edition player in me has me second guessing it. Khorne has an Icon that grants re-rolling on charges, so this might actually be a viable option, instead of an iffy option, since I have to set up 9" away. 

[InfestedKerrigan]

That's how I use Ragethirster. PLOMP.

[WestRider]

Getting some Berzerkers in Rhinos will really help solve the tarpitting problem. They're amazing at clearing out chaff Units.

The CSM Dex has a Stratagem that lets a Daemon Engine ignore the penalty for moving and firing Heavy Weapons. It's not a 100% fix, but it does help substantially.

Also, if you actually do go World Eaters, that unlocks a Stratagem that will let you shut down a Psychic Power on a 4+ within 24" of a WE Unit.

Daemon Prince is low Toughness, but is also a Character with fewer than 10 Wounds. Just keep some kind of screen around so it's not the closest Model until it's in Combat, and it'll be fine.

If you're going to be Summoning, better to go with a super cheap Chaos Lord or Exalted Champion or something. Keeping an expensive character stationary wastes a lot of potential. Summoning does require Reinforcement Points like in AoS, tho, so it's more about flexibility than raw power.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Daemon Prince is low Toughness, but is also a Character with fewer than 10 Wounds. Just keep some kind of screen around so it's not the closest Model until it's in Combat, and it'll be fine.

I was under this impression, but was informed that having the Monster rule negated the benefit from being a character in addition to the under 10 wounds thing. Being able to defer shooting to other creatures would certainly go a long way for the durability of this model. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Getting some Berzerkers in Rhinos will really help solve the tarpitting problem. They're amazing at clearing out chaff Units.

The CSM Dex has a Stratagem that lets a Daemon Engine ignore the penalty for moving and firing Heavy Weapons. It's not a 100% fix, but it does help substantially.

Also, if you actually do go World Eaters, that unlocks a Stratagem that will let you shut down a Psychic Power on a 4+ within 24" of a WE Unit..

Still don't have the CSM book, so no chapter rules or stratagems until then. That said, I did peek at the chapter rules summary on D4chan. I would lean towards Iron Warriors, as I think those fit my playstyle better, but I may go Renegade anyway. Certainly not doing World Eaters, just not my thing.

Regarding psychic defense, flesh hounds and Karnak are on the list for potentials, they are also fast units and they are pretty easy to summon. I noticed that I can field multiple marks in the same detachment and it really isn't part of my chapter to be khorne - the chapter logo implies it, but that's as far as that goes. So I could include some chaos psykers in the army without any problems. 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

That's how I use Ragethirster. PLOMP.

None of the 'thirsters have such an ability, as far as I know. Did I miss it?

[VonVilkee]

Monster does not negate character get a pg reference... there was an index mis match on deamon princes. the CSM one had few enough wounds for protection but the demons one had a couple more wounds (prolly to represent it being more powerful and tougher) so it didn't qualify for character protection which made it infinitely more kill able and not as "tough". That could be the disconnect, they faqd them to be the same tho. 

[WestRider]

2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

None of the 'thirsters have such an ability, as far as I know. Did I miss it?

You have to Summon it to do that with a 'Thirster.