Guest Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Picked up the AM codex. Still don't have the index (waiting on GG to restock it) or the FW Index which I ordered a long while ago. I have a large number of Tallarn models I got at the tail end of 7th, via ebay. Mostly infantry. Plan is to use the same models and the same paint scheme for my AM, Genestealer Cults, CSM Cultists/Renegade Guard. Not sure if I have enough tallarn for a full army or if this will be solely as an ally army, and also not sure if I will be purchasing any additional vehicles/models. Anyway, I'll get some photos and lists up when I get them. Also probably going to ask a lot of AM related questions related to rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 For changes to the army, the biggest one to me is the weapon ranges. AM no longer has any unlimited range weapons. They also no longer have any weapons with a minimum range. That's the biggest thing to me, given that guard is a mostly shooting army. CSM don't have any, but HK missiles are now only 48" which really was the main way to outfit lower range units with a way to participate in long range combat. While 48" is not short range, it does mean that on a normal size table, not having all your Guard be in range all game, is actually a consideration. Probably a good change, as it does encourage a gunline to be a further forward than having everything on the board edge. The other big change relates to detachments. No longer being required to field entire infantry platoons and being allowed to field detachments solely of HQ and elites, HQ and fast slots, or HQ and heavies, that is a huge change. Not sure it unbalances anything, but the change is substancial to how the army is fieldable. Beyond that, the change of vehicles into toughness creatures, has a pretty significant impact on this army. The elimination of the super heavy rules, also has a pretty notable impact, as a Land Raider is much closer to a Baneblade than they were in prior editions, both in cost and rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Haha. Nice. Hellhounds, of which I do own one unassembled, explode on a 4+. Or rather, they explode on a 6+ and add 2 to the result. The explosion does d3 mortal wounds to each unit within 6" without regard to the CHARACTER rule. So with a full advance, the tank moves up to 18" per turn. It costs 101pts per hellhound (73pts base, Inferno Cannon is 20, Heavy Bolter is 8, so 101pts each). Probably not worth it to purposely kamikaze, but the damage potential of the explosion is quite high, especially to characters and MSU armies (like other guardsmen). On the other hand, means this is a bad unit to use as an escort for another fast unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Finally got a good look at the Renegade rules from FW. Horribly written rules. Clearly, what happened is that FW jumped the gun and made their own version of Regimental rules before the AM codex was released, so now they have really messy rules and they don't work well with the codex. Rules are further choked by spelling errors, typos, and lack of general proof reading. Though, for me, doesn't really matter, since the units I want to bring are rather simple. I'd be fielding a Renegade Commander, 10-man Renegade Militia squads, Renegade Heavy Weapon teams, and maybe some sentinels or hellhounds. I have no interest in the FW specific models for the Renegades. I just want some AM mixed in with my Chaos. Just a few units I can use to hold backfield objectives or be stationary long range shooting (you know, the kinds of things the AM should be doing while Marines are up close and personal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 As an aside, I need to think up a name for this army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2017 Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 Between the FW renegade rules and the FW renegade rule FAQ I've finally figured out how the army differs from AM. Basically, renegades trade the regiment rule, all AM stratagems, all AM relics, most of their unit selections, all the AM psychic powers and so forth. In return, they can summon Daemons (CHAOS + CHARACTER = daemonic summoning access) and fit very well in Chaos Daemon Detachments (since neither have rules that are disrupted by non-purist detachments). Renegades, as a bonus, also have really crappy leadership rules... But, as an alternative to Cultists, renegades are awesome. Renegades, like AM to the imperium, also present a really cheap CP option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2017 Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 Traitor Guard unit by unit evaluation: HQs HQ Renegade Commander 1/5. Worthless. Brings nothing to the army, has lacking weapon access. Cheap, but only includable as a tax unit for required HQs. HQ Malefic Lord. 3/5. Extremely cheap for statline, but not very practical. Has a weird special rule where if he suffers perils and doesn't die, then he gets very impressive melee stats. That said, he can only cast one power per turn, so odds are not in favor of this happening in any reliable capacity. Army psychic powers are mediocre. Really only practical in cheesy/spammy capacity, since he's a 30pt psyker with smite.... HQ Rogue Psyker Coven. 1/5. As the above Malefic Lord, except instead of planning for failure with perils, unit has bonuses to make casting more reliable. But unit is bad and extremely expensive (20pts per model, 5 model minimuim, worse stats than Maleifc Lord). Summary Conclusion: don't run any of these HQs, ally in some Chaos Daemons or CSM to fill HQ slots. Even without Legion traits or CSM stratagems, Any CSM HQ would be better than renegade HQ options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2017 Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 Elites: Elite Renegade Command Squad. 5/5 This should be the HQ. Entire army has major leadership issues. This 4-man unit has a "Command Vox Net" that allows them to share leadership with renegade units within 120" inches. Yeah, 120" without LoS requirements. Other units must also have Vox Casters, but that's hardly an issue. Entire unit is 34pts with command vox net. Elite Renegade Enforcer. 1/5 Basically the Renegade Commissar. Chaos Character, same leadership as the command squad, shares leadership with 6" and has a weird rule where units within 3" MUST autopass leadership at the cost of life. Weak point with this model is that the cost of life is "d3 models" not "d3 wounds" and it is not optional. So if a heavy weapon squad is too close and they need to take morale, they'll auto-pass, but lose d3 heavy weapon platforms (because each counts as a model), which means that despite passing, they'll likely take more damage than if they had just failed.... Elite Renegade Marauder Squad 4/5 5-12 man "veteran" squad. Good BS and WS, full special weapon access. And some cool "before game" special rule choices. Downside to the unit is that special weapon access doesn't scale with models in the unit. 2 special weapons regardless of how many more models are added to the unit. Unit also has a weird alternate moral check, where they just roll a 2+ to pass moral, but with a fail, they are removed entirely. Elites Renegade Disiple Squad 4/5 High BS/WS version of the Troops slot Militia. Improved leadership. No weird rules. But, not troops... Elites Ogryn Beast Handlers 3/5 Single Ogryn with cheaper dogs to suck shooting away. Not nearly as good as the AM ogryn bodyguard, but that's the general idea. Entire unit has leadership 6...but if you can get them to melee, they'd be decent. Elites Ogryn Brutes 3/5 Melee Ogryn squad. Unit leader has whomping leadership 7 (high for this army) and a very impressive melee weapon (S10, ap-3, d3 damage). If you can get them to melee... Elites Plague Ogryns 5/5 A nurgle must have. Melee Ogryns with the NURGLE keyword. Has a cool rule where they explode if they die in the fight phase, but the explosion only hurts non-NURGLE units. Unit is 3-9 models at 25pts each. Conclusion regarding elites: Command squad is useful for the vox. Marauders can take sniper rifles and are decent. Nothing else is really worth taking for elites in this army. Plague Ogryns are worth taking if I run lots of NURGLE units. Since I'm mixed god with my CSM, they'd be a liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2017 Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 Troops Renegade Militia Squad. 5/5 Similar unit to AM infantry squad, but unit has crappy leadership and can be fielded in units of 10-20. Much better than CSM cultists to sit on objectives or otherwise support the army. BS is Ork grade... Troops Renegade Cultists. 1/5 Exactly the same as CSM cultists except no mark and no legion traits.... Troops Renegade Mutant Rabble. 5/5. Weird unit. Very cheap, can all have shotguns (assault 2, 12" range, S user, ap0 1 damage, and +1 Str if target is within 6") for no cost increase. Start of game, unit rolls randomly for mutations. Most are good, but nothing amazing. Dirt cheap unit and pretty solid for a cheap unit. Same crappy leadership issues. No heavy or special weapon access, and squads of 10-50... Conclusion for troops. I like the Militia and the Mutant Rabble. Probably won't field any mutants, just because I'm using Tallarn models, but I may expand later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2017 Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 Fast Chaos Spawn 1/5. As the CSM ones, but no mark and no legion trait, and not a hereticus astartes model. No price discount. With leadership 9, they are the highest leadership unit in the army by a good margin. Heavy Support Renegade Heavy Weapon Squad 3/5 Even cheaper than AM heavy weapon teams with worse leadership and Ork BS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 Okay, so a few descisions regarding this army. First, the FW rules for renegades are too much of a mess to use. Occured to me that I could field FALLEN as allies to loyalist guard. That allows me to use my Tallarn as Tallarn regiment traits, which is good. Not as good as actual CSM allies, but it allows the two to bridge together the two just enough so I can work on both armies at once. Second, going to paint them Black, as more ninja looking than Tallarn desert colors. Sort of a night-time theme for my Tallarn. I'm going to adopt the Night Goblin Moon as the logo for this force. Not certain on an exact name, but I lean towards "Tallarn Nights" as a play on "Arabian Nights". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycamper Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 2 hours ago, paxmiles said: Okay, so a few descisions regarding this army. First, the FW rules for renegades are too much of a mess to use. Occured to me that I could field FALLEN as allies to loyalist guard. That allows me to use my Tallarn as Tallarn regiment traits, which is good. Not as good as actual CSM allies, but it allows the two to bridge together the two just enough so I can work on both armies at once. Second, going to paint them Black, as more ninja looking than Tallarn desert colors. Sort of a night-time theme for my Tallarn. I'm going to adopt the Night Goblin Moon as the logo for this force. Not certain on an exact name, but I lean towards "Tallarn Nights" as a play on "Arabian Nights". Try secret weapon miniatures Tire Black set. Its fun black that's easy to highlight and shade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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