Looking for some example lists and ideas for starters

[Duckman]

I have not played a mass-battle game since early in 8th Ed. Warhammer Fantasy.  I'm in an area now that is supportive of KoW and have an interest in learning the game and experimenting with some of the different armies to figure out how the different armies play.

I no longer have any models (will be borrowing armies from a guy locally to fiddle with until I decide on a force) but I used to play Warriors of Chaos which appear to be the Varangur.  I also had Skaven, now Ratkin, and Lizards, now Salamanders.  My preferred army was the Warriors with light units based around a couple of blocks of sticky/fighty Chosen which I gather means something like a couple of blocks of Sons of Korgaan with Horse Raiders, a Chieftain and then flavor to fill out the army.

The main crux of my question is about playstyle in KoW and what makes a complete army.  If I am putting 2 Regiments of Sons, a Regiment of Mounted Sons, 2 troops of Horse Raiders and a Chieftain on a Mount on the table I am at about half my army there and have almost no shooting, no monsters and no war machines.  Do my Sons Regiments have the survivability to stick around in combat for a while?  Do I have enough movement if I add Troops of Reavers and Night Raiders to hunt my enemies down?  Is there a good rule of thumb for how many sticky units like Sons Regiments I want at 2250 points or how much shooting I should expect to see?

I don't know enough about what to expect to see on a table to even begin thinking about how to build a list and so I am wondering what a typical 2250 army might look like for any list (what would I see in an opponent list?).

Bonus question: Has anyone played with the Night-Stalkers and can you characterize how they play?

[gilgamesh]

You are correct about the armies changing over from  Warhams to Kings.  And correct again about the Sons of Korgaan being the chosen equivalent, they hit really hard but are a little slow.

As for general army composition, the game is pretty open about it all.  With some armies having a lot of Nerve (hordes), others that focus on shooting, and then others that may focus entirely on speed.  The Sons of Korgaan will be able to get shot and and take some damage, but a lot of the game is about what you do after that first charge.  So on counter-charging and maneuvering to fill in wholes in your line.  That is when flank and rear charges can be made and change the game.

That all aside, most armies will have  mix of units: a horde or two, a few regiments, some cav, a few heroes, maybe a warmachine and a monster or two.

Here is a few good rules to follow for 2250:

-you want to aim for 1 source of inspiring per 500 points.  This would be a hero (the skald/banner carrier) are the cheap option.  Having a good amount of inspiring around means the lucky rolls people get on nerve tests will be kept in check. (banner carriers can also get certain items to let them fill a secondary purpose: diadam of dragon kind, lute of insatiable darkness). There is also an item that makes a hero inspiring if they aren't already like a wizard(inspiring talisman).

-Build your army in groups that are able to support each other.  So have a Sons of Korgaan regiment, with a Warband horde and a hero to inspire them.  Ideally the horde will take the charge, your regiment will fank, your hero will.  or have a cav heavy unit, with a mounted hero, and light cav troop.  

-have a way to deal with enemy units that are quicker then you.  SInce all charges are fixed, if the enemy has more move, they will charge you first.  You can get around this a few ways: have a unit to take the charge and counter charge (either knowing the unit is tough enough to survive the charge or expendable enough to not care when they die), have shooting to damage the enemy before they hit so less of a counter charge is needed, or have the fastest units.

 

I didn't actually talk about how to build out the rest of your list but I hope that helps some.  Here is an example of how you could. (night raiders are kinda too expensive for their output, but horse raiders can get bows and still are decent in combat)

Warband reg

warband reg

Sons of korgaan reg

Sons of korgaan reg

Sons of korgaan reg

Cave trolls

Mounted Sons Reg

Horse Raiders Troop

Horse Raiders Reg

Devourer (breath attack)

Cheiftan (mounted)

Skald

Skald

 

You have some points left over to add items in.  The mainbattle time is all about the same speed but is very durable.  And then there is more maneuverable cav group to place on flanks.  I didn't stay with the inspiring rule I used, so you could add in a Magus with the inspiring talisman to have a little magic (maybe make one of the warbands a troop for points).

 

hope that helps some

 

[gilgamesh]

BONUS:

Nightstalkers are very interesting and can be play very differently.  Their units are all over the place and with Mindthurst and stealth they can act pretty independent.  They tend to be smaller armies with units being more expensive overall.  A army I have seen played with them is one made mostly of Fiends.  The are very quick and hit hard.  You could also play a slower army using scarcrows (like zombies) and have a few large blocks moving around.  Overall I would say they are an army that has a lot of tricks up their sleeves (but not too tough), partially through army wide rules and funky units (like the Planar Apparition with Heal 7!!)

[Brother Glacius]

Hey Duckman,

Kings is a very solid game. In standard games, Regiments just aren't enough. In Kings, size matters. You'll need Hordes for not only line anchoring, but for also opening up monster/character/warmachine slots. The best hordes are large infantry. They carry a small battlefield footprint, but still give you all the normal stability benefits. Make sure to find those options in whatever list you go with.

As a side note, one of the nice things about KoW are the static unit sizes. You can basically go out and get some plasticard, or cardboard, cut out unit sizes, and use those for army testing. No models required.

Also realize that race doesn't have as big of an impact in KoW, like it did in WH. A horde of goblins is just as effective as a horde of Sons for the most part.

[Duckman]

Thanks for the thoughts, in particular that last insight, BroG.  I was torn between an MSU type build like gilgamesh's 7-regiment list and something with a few hordes or legions.

I had also wanted to build a dwarf list in Warhammer but didn't like the gunline style that served them so well.  In KoW they seem to have better survivability than the Varangur between the bulwarkers and the ironguard. That makes a dwarf list built around an iron wall formation kinda tempting too.

[Brother Glacius]

Dwarfs in Kings are pretty cool. Plenty of solid Inf, and enough shooting options for finishing off units. The behemoth is a great anchor unit as well, especially guarding a horde's flank. And Kings Dwarfs have cav. Can't go wrong with them really.

[TheBeninator]

Ill echo what Brother Glacius saids about dwarves. You cannot really build a gunline out of them that will smash every opponent. Since winning a game is so reliant on objectives, most of which I believe are board control, it is really difficult to castle up in a corner and do well. 

That being said, a mixed arms list seems like the way to go.

[gilgamesh]

Very good point about playtesting lists.  It is easy to cut out unit bases and try out a list.

the Dwarfs have a few great formations! Agreed

[Andrewgeddon]

Not sure how helpful it is, but Guerrilla Miniatures Games on YouTube does a number of Kings of War battle reports that are very well done and a blast to watch. Worth checking out maybe? If nothing else, can give you a better idea of how the game plays?

[ClassicFlava]

If you want to check out some cool battle reports Mastercrafted does some good ones.  Here's a link.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpUodTbAv0XfqvwwG2cBHuA

[gilgamesh]

They definitely make the best Kings battle reports.  Lord Tremendous is also putting out fresh content and he has just started playing a Varanger army,  learning as he goes.

[Kremmet]

If only Lord Tremendous wasn't such a dbag. I've heard he's...adjusted a little since the old WHFB days, but I haven't seen any actual remorse for how he treated people just yet. 

Mastercrafted makes a pretty good battle report, but they're a little too heavy on the catch phrases. Andy2d6 is pretty solid as well if you want something without constant mentions of Pizza Jesus. 

[Swan-of-War]

I like master crafted and direct misfire.  

[ClassicFlava]

My favorite podcasts are Countercharge, Unplu33ed Radio, and The Beer Phase.