Data Entry - An attempt at a blog thing

[dataentity]

Okay, I guess I'll right up tonight. Don't really want to because this was the most frustrating night of Infinity I've had. 

Played 2 games. Game 1 against Tyler, game 2 against Raindog. Mission was kill more army points (3 points), kill a lieutenant (1 point), open panoplies (2 points each, 3 panoplies).

My list was a little bit greedy because I decided to try the Szalamandra again. I realized I should have had a Clockmaker but, honestly, it didn't end up mattering at all if I had one or not. 250 point lists.

Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

10  
SZALAMANDRA Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 90)
 SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender / Pistol, Knife. ()
TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
HECKLER Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
SPEKTR Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Cybermines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
SECURITATE Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
SECURITATE Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
SECURITATE Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
SECURITATE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)

5 SWC | 250 Points

Open in Infinity Army

From a paper point of view, it didn't feel that bad of a list. If the Szalamandra goes down, I still have a scary Securitate link. I also had the Spektr if it came down to it.

---

Game 1 against ISS with Kuang Shi link, Sun Tze, Major Lunah, and Su Jian. Su Jian is a filthy filthy unit.

I lost WIP roll which ended up costing me the game. I should not have used this list on the table we had as, due to relative flatness, there actually wasn't anywhere for the Szalamandra to fully hide on my defensive turn. Major Lunah reveals in the face of my two Feuerbach Securitates and splits burst. With dice advantage on both, I expected to win. But nope. Lunah crit ties the first Feuerbach, and passes armor saves against the explosive shot from the second Feuerbach. Su Jian then walks up the middle of the board, splats one of the Feuerbach. This allows Lunah to go up against the other Feuerbach and then Marksmanship LX's it off the field with her Viral Sniper.

Su Jian then waltzes up and dukes it out with my Securitate link and the Szalamandra simulatenously. Some flamethrower attempts at my Securitates who somehow pass dodge saves, while the Szalamandra gets one chance to DA the Su Jian in ARO. Szalamandra fails. Su Jian then crits the Szalamandra with it's Panzerfaust. Okay, just need to pass one of the armor saves right? Nope, fails both and Szalamandra is unconscious. Su Jian then mops up the rest of the securitate link between fire, spitfire, and close combat.

End of Tyler's turn 1, I'm out 6 orders, in LoL, and have lost my Szalamandra without causing a single wound back.

My first active turn, I spend what orders I can and command tokens on my Spektr to open a Panoplies where he gets +3 armor. Great! But he can't get to the second Panoplies safely so ends up just recamoing.

Top of turn 2, Su Jian casually kills both of my Transductors (for those counting, that leaves me with 2 models remaining) before trying to flame out the Spektre. The Spektre, with the surprising PHY 12, dodges some 4 flamethrower shots, before the Su Jian gives up and just close combats. Spektr somehow ends up not dying.

Bottom turn 2, my Heckler walks out and plops down a cybermine for the inevitable death of my Spektre. Spektr attempts to dodge out but is dies. The Heckler, in the Su Jian's back arc, causes 2 wounds with it's combi rifle (the only two wounds I cause the entire game). The Su Jian then fails courage to get out of range of the cybermine.

Top of turn 3, Su Jian easily wastes my Heckler and I've been tabled, with Tyler having 10 orders left to push as many buttons he wants.

---

Game 2 against Raindog's OSS.

I win the WIP off and, since I'm still playing a TAG list, I decided to go first. During deployment, I know the Raindog has a TO proxy infiltrator, but I don't know if it's the sniper or the hacker. Without anyway to find out until I try, I just had to try and hope I can survive whatever it threw it the Szally.

Turn 1, Szalamandra walks forward and is immediately shot by the TO Proxy sniper. Just in the Szalamandra's bad range, the Szally is shooting 5 dice on 2's and, predictably, fails and takes a wound. Szally then gets into good range to put down the Proxy with shock rounds. Proxies, being proxies, means I have not taken out an order. Szalamandra then walks further forward to open a Panoplies, getting an adhesive launcher. Useless. A little further forward, she tries to duke it out with the Proxy forward observer with E/M grenades. I needed to get the E/M off the table as I had no engineer. Szalamandra wastes the proxy (again, still having not taken off an order from Raindog's order pool), but ended up in range of a repeater. I knew the repeater was there, but I wasn't thinking. Admittedly I was tilted from game 1 so was just playing sloppy. Raindog has 2 hackers visible on table and, through the repeater, Overlords the Szally. Given how the entire evening had been going, predictably, the Szallamandra was possessed via crit.

I couldn't do the reset during this fight. Even if it had passed, it would have allowed Raindog to then just E/M the Szallamandra in ARO. She was in good range for the proxy after all. So it was just sloppy play that resulted in this happening. I was hoping BTS 9 meant something but it didn't.

With plan A possessed, plan B was the Spektr. He reveals next to the Panoplies and, with 2 dice on 14's, fails on double 15's. Of course. The Spektr tries again and ends up getting an HMG. Normally a fantastic grab but the table was mostly tight corridors on ground level, with only real long range opportunities on roof tops. The Spektr keeps walking forward and stops just in range of the other repeater on the field. You'd think I learn. In addition to the 2 hackers hacking the Spektr through the repeater, a nearby camo marker reveals to be a Naga killer hacker. Because of course.

With 3 hacks coming in, I try to Trinity my way out because I wanted to try and F2F all of them rather than leaving any of the rolls to be a normal roll. Again, predictably for the evening, the Spektr fails all 3 and has his head exploded then exploded again then exploded again.

With my last couple of orders, I try to shift things around to hopefully hide from the possessed Szalamandra until my next turn so that I would be able to regain control turn 2 with a command token.

Raindog's turn, Szally climbs a box and kills my Securitate HMG. Then, she climbs a tower and kills Feurbach one. Then, the Szally jumps off a tower to take fall damage into death because fall damage is based off current profile. Despite the Szally normally being able to survive a 9 inch fall (because 6 inch first movement), the possessed profile is only 4-4, resulting in a damage 30 fall. Being unable to roll a 23 on a d20 means the Szalamandra goes to dead. With Raindog having spent all of 3 orders, we call the game because I, really, would not have been able to do anything if we even got to my turn 2.

Another game where I took 2 wounds off the table (2 proxy bodies) but end up taking 0 orders out of the opposing order pool of 11 orders because of strategos.

 

So yeah. I don't even know. Typing this out has only made me more frustrated about tonight. Yes, I played sloppy game 2. But damn.

Game 1 I don't know what I could have done different other than not run a TAG list. Dice just did not want to do anything for me. Game 2 I should have paid attention to repeater ranges. I don't know why I couldn't eyeball 8 inches. Playing this long you'd thing 8 inches would be the easiest thing to see.

I'm probably not running a TAG again any time soon.

[Natetehaggresar]

Hey @dataentity, 

Some games just have dumb luck. I had a few in a row last month, I had one against @WiseKensai where get got 4 crits on me during my first turn, and a similarly unlucky tournament earlier that week. Something about infinity compared to 40k is that you have fewer units and fewer dice rolled in a game. When you make 100 die rolls or fewer in a game outlyers occur, when you make 1000+ die rolls, it's more rare to get a freak game. Sometimes you just have to grin and bear it. If the dice say no, it's not your fault, there is actually nothing you can do, so don't sweat it.

 

That said, three take aways.

1. I always have terrain that can block Los to S7 on my tables. Tags are hard enough to use, no reason to make it even harder. (And I mean always, even when I'm not using a tag, my opponent might be bringing one.)

2. The only bad range on a HRMC is 0-8. They drop to +0 outside of 32. The worst you could be at is -9 for TO and cover, baring things like low vis zones.

3. Don't over extend a tag. They're really powerful, but as you see can be really fragile to certain types of attacks. I always leave orders in my pool to retreat my tag to a safe position. Never let an opponent get free hacks on it. (Accidents happen, and you were tilted, just keep calm and carry on). @Raindog has played against my Sally once or twice, and he's always shocked when I run away after a good turn.

[Raindog]

@Natetehaggresar Thank you work the great insight. 

@dataentity Next week, we can safe a table for you to set up however you like. 

[dataentity]

@Natetehaggresar Yeah, I know. From an objective stand point, I know it's a dice game. I know dice can just say 'no, you don't get to play today.'

I did not remember that the HRMC did not go to -3 outside of 32. I just always shortcut to just remembering HMG ranges. So that's good to know.

And I know that TAGs should be trying to play the long range game. They are much more vulnerable close up, whether that's melee, hacking, etc. Most E/M weapons are even close range. I think the only long range weapon for E/M is the Blitzen?

@Raindog Don't worry about it. I was just overreacting to a bad day. I shouldn't have tried to force a TAG. As you had said last night, in a tournament there'll be two lists. If that table isn't good for a TAG, it's not good for a TAG. I'm not worried about it. I should have made a second list that was more reasonable for the terrain we had for the day.

[WiseKensai]

One of the reasons I like this game beyond the fact that it's very deep, is that it's not just the person across the table from you that you're facing off against. You are also your own opponent.

What do I mean by that? Simplistically, I don't think anyone would say that going on tilt won them a game. More seriously though, try to watch yourself for tunnel vision and make sure you take a step back to re-evaluate your priorities for a turn.

I hate to always use @Natetehaggresar as an example (sorry Nate!), but I do it because of the sincere respect I have for him. What makes him a great player and not just a good one is his consistent ability to do those latter things I mentioned. As much as @thediceabide and I joke about him being a Borg drone, he's human, gets salty, goes on tilt, and gets tunnel vision from time to time. But he also will say things out loud like: "I want to go kill your <x> because it was such a pain this last turn, but that's a bad idea. I'm going to think about what I HAVE to get done this turn, and how to set up for a next turn." Then he'll go quiet for a bit as he thinks and then proceed to win the game shortly thereafter.

I think that moment of self-awareness and stepping back can be a major hurdle in many folks' infinity development, and personal development as well. I know I struggle with it every game and in my day to day. I've found that a simple "escape valve" rule for myself helps. If I start going on tilt because of dice, bad decisions, whatever, I stop what I'm doing, even if it's in the middle of an opponent's order, put down my dice/tape measure, take a deep breath, and refocus. If it's my turn I'll take a few moments and maybe even voice my frustration just to get it out there: "UGGH that's the worst!" is something I've said many a time.

Anyway. You're not alone, @dataentity. We've all been there. I hope your next game goes better.

[dataentity]

Thanks. I know it's something I need to work on. I was trying to do that, such as when the Su Jian was pushing my face in, I did just try and have my Spektr at least get some points. But, that didn't exactly help in this case.

 

Anyway, just putting down some thoughts. Sunday night I was discussing with Raindog about narrative stuff. About how narrative isn't done much in Infinity given how ITS is so ingrained in Infinity. Specifically, we talked about zombie narrative.

My idea would take inspiration from the Heralds of Ruin community for 40k Kill Team. Someone had made a campaign where you started with a band of survivors who could level up over time. More than just the Spec-Ops in say a Paradiso campaign.

Just throwing out ideas, I'd probably say you start with a 50?/75?/100? points team of survivors that you carry over from mission to mission. Models that go down in the mission would need to roll to survive. If left on the table unconscious or dead, roll PH -6. If casevac, roll pH. If casevac with paramedic, PH +3 roll. If you have a doctor and they are casevac, can do doc does a WIP roll with a reroll. If they die, they're gone from your list.

Missions could be a simple get to the exit, or perhaps you need to push some buttons to open the exit, or beat a boss monster. All the while, zombies keep spawning.

For the zombies, probably 4-2 move for generic zombies because shambling zombies are the correct zombies. 1 W with regeneration. I'd probably say crits against them count as shock (headshotting a zombie). Each zombie would be played like extreme impetuous, irregular troop. ARO would just be dodging towards you. Perhaps Kinematika?

Special zombies, basing off of Left 4 Dead specials because why not. A hunter equivalent that's 6-4? Super-jump, berserk, natural born warrior. Boomer could be a direct template weapon. Spitters then would be a circular template that might leave a template like old swarm ammunition. Smokers could literally explode as a smoke template. Tanks could be 3+ wounds? Moderate armor, with a ranged attack (throwing debris), EXP CC?

You'd just need to get a solid play-by-itself list of how zombies act.

The main thing that I think would need addressing would be how to control the pace of a mission. How do you prevent high order count just being the best thing? Perhaps all troops are irregular? If that is too slow, maybe every troop has that new skill tactical sense or whatever where they get an extra irregular order for themselves. Alternatively, as a model gets more expensive, it gets extra irregular orders for itself? So a base 10 point model (going by the cheapest profile) would get 2 order, but if you got a profile where the cheapest was 25 points, you'd unlock that 3rd order. Then say a 50 point model would unlock a 4th order? So 2 cheap dudes will still get more orders done than a 25, 2 moderate price models will, combined, still get more done than an expensive model. May need to slow movement down?

I'd then say that the Lieutenant order could be a strategos order. If you brought a lieutenant with strategos or with Lieutenant L2 it'd be extra regular orders on top of that.

Not sure about how to work in fire teams. They feel like it'd be too efficient moving up a cheap fire team to do whatever objectives in a mission. But then if it was no fireteams allowed, there would be no incentive to play a sectorial. Maybe at the start of a mission, you select which models would be in the fireteam. Rather than moving as a fireteam does in normal Infinity and instead of the usual bonuses, you'd get extra orders to spend on individual models in the team.

Now what to do about AD drop. If you're in a survival situation, you don't have the liberty to jump back into a drop ship and jump back onto the battlefield (otherwise, why wouldn't you just escape?). Given that most AD drop units have a jetpack, maybe it's a limited use high speed movement instead? Like your 4-4 AD:Combat Jump model uses it's jump pack to instead move 8-4 with super-jump for a turn?

I don't know. Just some ideas.

[Natetehaggresar]

@thediceabide has a narrative infinity rule set on Facebook, "Gangs of Neoterra," which is a take on infinity mixed with necromunda. So all your dudes level up, but none of them start as bad assed as a swiss guard.

A campaign pitting your team against some zombies alone sounds kinda boring IMO. If they're zombies they may as well be NPCs and you can play the game solo.

 

One system I liked a few years back had a very interesting take. Each campaign had a number of players managing their gangs, and the campaign itself had a third party act as something akin to a game master. Each mission could have npcs that didn't act based on present rules, and you could do thinks like have ambushes or lots of hidden information about the board and NPCs the players themselves didn't know about. Fwiw the game was called "wreck age."

 

The problem with narratives is they need substantial planning and involvement to be satisfying. A bad narrative is easy to create. 

 

I think that's one reason for the reliance on ITS. You can set down with anyone who plays and get a relatively satisfying game experience, without substantial planning or long term i.e. league commitments.

 

[DustGod]

From experience w/ Necromunda Mordheim and Warhammer 40K and I have a lot of experience with different campaigns over the years and all three of these games..

You need at least 3 people

The setting... this is really important if you're playing say in one area this city or this planet or does this thing take place on multiple fronts? Is this a full scale War? is this a incursion between small groups that are growing as you play?

A Basic (or better) narrative..

Features you're going to want to add features to the campaign that's what makes it better than playing a pickup game dig what I'm saying?

Modify something like the spec-ops chart they can be applied to T.A.G.s and "You" or your faction hero... 

The Ability to win mission X and get 2 Panoplies Rolls... these weapons can be given that any member of your Force permanently... 

Increase the number of deployables in model can get by winning this match... 

But once you're out of deployables or any kind of weapons that have limited ammo... that's it until you find a match where you can refill your army supplies... 

Because Infinity is based on an RPG Skirmish system deep campaigns should be a Snap... HVTS and Civvies in the streets... "Look out lady!"

Submondo vs. Special Anti-Crime Task force would be awesome (Ghost in the shell anyone) 

Artifacts (hohum) 

Pirates, Privateers and Shipping lanes ( crazy open ended) 

If you ever want to start a Google doc or a post here or both and try to create a campaign I'm definitely down.

Not that I could play the campaign consistently because of my work load..

but I could definitely develop a campaign you guys could play..  I've done it before. 

I did make this game once upon a time... 

Old Work

Could easily apply those skills to modifying this for a campaign

[dataentity]

That time of week again. The mission was the coin game. 10 coins are scattered in middle section of the board. +1 point per coin, +1 point per coin in deployment zone.

My list:

Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

10  1
ZONDNAUT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 32)
 ZONDMATE Chain Rifle, Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Electric Pulse. (5)
PUPPET MASTERS Submachine Gun / PistolKnife. (0 | 12)
PUPPETBOT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 11)
PUPPETBOT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 11)
PUPPETBOT (Marksmanship L1) AP Marksman Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
SECURITATE Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
SECURITATE Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
SECURITATE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
SECURITATE (Repeater) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
SECURITATE Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
STEMPLER ZOND Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
SPEKTR Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
MARY PROBLEMS Hacker (Forward Deployment L1) Submachine Gun + Zapper, Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30)

4.5 SWC | 250 Points

Open in Infinity Army

Goal of the list was to be fast and efficiently get multiple models per order to be able to pick up things.

I played against Nick. (And I'm sorry. Spoiler alert, it was kind of the opposite of last week).

I deployed heavy on my left flank with the Zondnautica and Puppet Troupe ready to push up. The terrain was a little bit lighter with a bit better fire lanes to shoot with my ranged weapons. Securitate defensive team was perched up high and saw a decent amount of the board. Right flank was light with Mary Problems prone behind a box and the Stemplar in the wings to potentially push up for a coin.

Nick was playing vanilla Haqq and man if that list didn't look scary from my side of the table. Tarik and Al Fasid, with support from 4 Mutts. Other pieces included Spitfire Kaplan, Leila Shariff, a couple of Ghulams, a Barid hacker and (spoiler) a Bashi.

I win WIP off and go first. First thing was impetuous for the Zondnautica. It screams up the left side of the table and just puts in work. It guns down a Kaplan that was on ARO duty. The Zondnaut then puts down a Mutt from mid-long range that was waiting in the middle of the board, before dismounting the bike. The Zondnaut pulls the classic sacrificial auxbot trick to chainrifle Leila and Mutt #2. Leila and the Mutt shoot. Leila misses her shot, and the Zondmate, unexpectedly, saves on it's armor roll against the chainrifle. Both the Mutt and Leila go unconscious to the chainrifle.

The Zondnaut and Zondmate then are allowed to start crossing across, from my left to right, through the backlines in Nick's deployment zone. Spitfire knocks down the Barid from behind. This was then followed by another sacrificial run with the Zondmate in combination with the Zondnaut this time shooting at the Al Fasid. The Al Fasid AROs against the Zondnaut instead of the Zondmate, with a nearby ghulam getting a shotgun into the bot. The Zondmate also triggers the Al Fasid's mine. The bot this time goes down, but the Zondnaut outshoots the Al Fasid whom proceeds to go unconscious.

I have 2 orders left, plus my hidden Spektre. I decide to just go ahead and reveal my Spektre who has deployed in the middle next to a coin which he picks up. I only realized once my turn was over that I left the Spektre standing. On a tower. In the middle of the field. And he's armed with a shotgun, the best long range weapon in the game. Whoops.

I move my stempler up a smidge on the right, before deciding to just put the Zondnaut into suppressive with my last order.

Now, onto bottom of turn 1. A Mutt impetuouses into the Zondnaut's face and dies (at this point I realized that the Spektre wasn't prone, so I tried and failed to dodge prone). Nick's Bashi walks in on my near, right quadrant but otherwise just doesn't have the orders to do anything. Then Tariks does Tarik things and punks my Spektre (Fatality Crit on 1) who fails to dodge prone again. Tarik then tries to shoot it out with one of my Feurbach Securitates. Securitate loses but passes armor save. Last thing is that the mid-field Hunzakut reveals to drop a mine.

Turn 2, Zondnaut is impetuous so walks forward to fight the Ghulam who had shotgunned the Zondmate. Zondnaut wins the fight and takes another few steps forward to shoot a second Ghulam that was hiding. Then, pretty much the rest of my turn was spend on the Puppetbots running around and picking up 3 coins. They did stop to take a pot shot at the Bashi on my right flank but the only one they could see was a Holoecho and not the real body. They then run back into my deployment zone for potentially more points. I then put the Zondnaut, my Stemplar, and Mary Problems into suppressive with a coordinated order.

Bottom of turn 2, Nick is now in loss of lieutenant. He has his remaining Mutt smoke for Tarik who can then safely grab a coin on top of a building. He hops back down in the mid-field, then tries to duel my Stemplar. The Stemplar crits Tarik, and would have gotten 2 other hits, but those wash with Tarik's shots.

Top of 3, I have my Puppetbots walk back to the midfield to attempt to dislodge the Hunzakutie in the mid field. Being 2 structure, and with Hyperdynamics, they're the best thing to eat the mine. One bot sets off the mine, dodging on a 10 (+6 Hyperdynamics L2, -3 for REM, -3 for Perimeter weapon), but fails anyway. With the second wound though, it doesn't really matter. The puppetbots tag out for the second FO Puppet to fight the Hunzakutie, winning the duel. Zondnaut then is allowed to walk up and grab a coin.

Last thing before the end of the game, I use my Securitate link. I am able to keep them in coherency with the HMG (the Feurbachs were high up on top of a crate with no ladders). The HMG dukes it out with Tarik who ends up taking 3 hits from the HMG.

At this point, we called the game. It was 4 coins to 1 and I still had 2 orders left.

 

So yeah. Definitely a turn around from last week. Nick handled the bad rolls much better than I did last week so that's a plus. We did talk about list building and things that could have been done different. Like the Mutt's could have definitely stalled that Turn 1 rambo push better. They were largely standing in the open, which allowed me to deal with them. Had they been pushed up against the wall, hiding from me, there would have been at least a couple of orders, if not more, on the route I took I'd have to be afraid of the jammer which would have ended that turn 1 push.

I think only major thing on my side that I can think of was just being stupid and leaving up the Spektr instead of prone. That was just a dumb mistake.

Other take away. This was my second time using the Zondnautica. First time it just got shut down by a Druze. This time it put in work. Having that extra impetuous order is actually quite useful, and it doesn't feel quite as bad as it usually does because it's made up for with the mimetism. I just have to remember they are still impetuous even when dismounted.

---

As for a narrative campaign. I know I'd be up for trying it. But it's just about the interest in it. 

I don't know about having to roll a panoplies for loot just because things can either get ridiculous or just be completely awful. It doesn't feel like enough control. You can just keep stacking armor on someone which can get good. Or you could just get close combat weapons, adhesive launchers, D-charges, etc. stuff that just isn't usually useful.

[DustGod]

You're right.... maybe Paradiso... or they could be making a new Paradiso campaign doing something official and strictly by the book is probably best... 

[dataentity]

 Spiral Corps - Highly Classified
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1   10  
 NEEMA Lieutenant (Advanced Command) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Viral Pistol, Shock CCW. (1.5 | 48)
 TAAGMA (Tri-Core) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
 TAAGMA (Multispectral Visor L2) Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)
 CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor, Fireteam: Special Triad) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
 CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor, Fireteam: Special Triad) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
 KUMOTAIL Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
 KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades + 2 Surda SymbioBeasts / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28)
   SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CCW. (0 | 8 )
 HATAIL AELIS KEESAN Viral Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
 KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
 KOSUIL Engineer Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)

GROUP 2  1 / 4  
 CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
 HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
 HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
 HELOT MILITIAMAN Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
 DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

 6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

List I'm thinking about trying for Highly Classified. So here is my thinking 'outloud.'

Has 1 HI with Neema. Veterans are the characters. Both of these classified objectives could be the Kiel-Saan, but taking a solo S5 HI without other utility and that is that expensive seems unwise. Only MI is Le Muet who is also incredibly expensive, but could fill the same role as Neema. Classic CoC also works for the veteran / elite classified objectives so I have 3 possibilities here for that set.

Single FO option in the list is the Clipsos though it is a good FO option.

Doctors available are the Brawler and Kumotail. Kumotail is 2 points more for +3 WIP and ability to Triad and also brings Engineer and D-Charges. I am just now realizing that I have 0 structure in this list so may need to find a way to get that in.

Secondary engineer with the Kosuil who is also a solid gunfighter.

Hackers available are Taagma white hacker (bad because white hacking), Brawler (WIP 12, but otherwise pretty good), or Aelis (Killer hacker, WIP 14, Viral or K1 rifles and other toolbox). Aelis is more expensive, but, again, is more redundancy with the counts-as-veteran because of the character. She also has sensor, D-Charges.

On the topic of sensor, that classified I have 3 sensor units and an MSV2 unit. Should be safe.

Predator can be accomplished by the Kerail's pets or by Neema.

Every other classified is generic so should be accomplished by anyone.

So weak points of the list:

• limited hacking with just Aelis, but there just aren't many good hacking options.
• Limited heavy and medium infantry. Unfortunately, Spiral Corp is very limited. Le Muet is expensive and feels like an awful choice to move up. Kiel-Saan is expensive and doesn't provide enough of an advantage over Neema to be worth replacing.
• Only bringing a single FO and no spotlight options. Clipsos is at least safe so can be done opportunistically
• No structure

Easiest way to resolve the 0 structure would be to replace the helot marksman with a kaauri sentinel. Saves a point and changes over to a regular order. Gives an extra visor. With that, I could drop the Kosuil (doesn't fulfill any niches not already filled) for a second Clipsos. Bolsters FO options, which are more common, but then places all of the engineer options onto just the Kumotail who is much easier to kill.

 

Unrelated to Highly Classified, I just realized how absurdly cheap the Kerail is.

[dataentity]

Red deck classifieds are awful.

So I tried the list above with the Kaauri-Helot switch.

Quick highlights from the battle. Too lazy to do a full batrep. Spiral Corp vs TAK (with 17 camo markers).

Deployment: Table was horrifically open with many a long range firelane. Spiral Corps does not do long distance well, and especially not this list. This caused me to deploy much more defensively which then limits one of Spiral's strengths which is its strong ARO game. I deployed Helots way too defensively more to cover my HVT than anything else. This gave my opponent control of the board, more than just 17 camo markers were going to give him.

Turn 1: Even with more than enough sensor to deal with the excessive camo markers, it was extremely difficult to get into good ranges to do said sensoring due to the excessively open fire lanes. There were lanes across the table both front to back and side to side. Pushing up against the wall of camo markers means that basically after any move there would be 1 or 2 that could see you. Turn 1 I also rolled hot garbage. 4 uncontested viral rifle shots hitting on 13? Miss all but 1, and the target saves against both viral hits. That said, Aelis is a heck of a toolbox. Auto reveal anything in sensor range. She is scary fighting and has all the tools you'll ever need, but you pay for it for a 30 point 1W model.

Turn 2: Basically took all my orders to kill a single REM with a Surda symbiobeast on my to try and get Predator (red Predator is kill 3 models in CC, with a bonus for killing 4). TAK Rems are ridiculous with the mines. First time using the Kerail Preceptor and I can definitely see how it shines, I just need more practice with it. A 12 point 2w model (although with otherwise very middling stats) is absurdly cheap. I think I made a good play with my Clipsos, sacrificing it by revealing it and placing a mine with the entire enemy fireteam next to her. I had no need for an FO, but had a high chance of either killing a few models with the mine or at least eating quite a few orders, which it did.

Turn 3: My dice finally decide to work. Only real options left after being picked apart was, really, Neema. Fortunately, Neema backed by a Tri-Core is an absolute monster of a piece. Bottom of 3 double critting the Vet Kazak off the table. However, that lack of range in spiral corps keeps being a problem given the long firelanes of the table, even hitting that -6 range when both models are on my half of the table.

 

So things to work on or try:

More long range options? Even in ARO? While multi sniper Helots aren't worth it in Varuna, could they be worth it in Spiral? Or bring the Chaksa HMG more?

Do I need less redundancy and just more orders? Ignore the possibility of predator to drop the Kerail? There are already quite a few pieces that just want to eat up orders in group 1.

Decoy vs Limited Camo on helots? Limited Camo is less mind games but can be plenty effective at scaring the opponent. My opponent today didn't fall for any of the decoys, but then I may have made it very obvious? Would I risk not shooting with the real Helot to mind game someone and get a better shot on them in the open?

[Pyre Warden]

Your opponent from last night. 

 

As far as the decoys go I just had to move slow and wait for you to reveal which one was the real one was my mentality. You had too many other targets for me to prioritize weeding out the correct one. 

 

Genius move with the clipsos, without knowing my plans for round 3 it definitely stopped my link team and made me waste orders dealing with it. 

 

I agree the table had really crazy fire lanes and my list had a better ranged fighter than yours did. But other than the vet kazak no one was equipped to really fight at that distance. 

 

I think the mines and decoys did what I wanted them to do and that was slow down the enemies first turn. My whole tactic is to go second to draw you into midfield and then retaliate against your advancement. 

 

Thank you for helping me learn the game a bit better and for teaching me to stop getting greedy and to play for the objective and not just for the firefights. 

 

All in all I'd happily play you again. 

[dataentity]

For the long range, you also had Pavel with the Ojotnik. And the main thing was that it was extremely difficult to get anywhere without being seen by multiple camo markers. Even a long range rifle shot from a camo marker could massively swing things.

As for the helots, you had a very different approach than Raindog does. He has played it safe every time and always shot. You never shot unless I revealed. Just need different approaches to different play styles.

Overall, it was a solid game. We each have some things to work on. I know I get blood thirsty too. So thanks for the game.

[dataentity]

So this came up on WGC Infinity.

We've been doing the 'being shot from behind' thing wrong because of a translation error. You can go ahead and dodge because you'll still get a guts roll (assuming you failed against the shooting but passed the ARM/BTS roll). If you pass your guts roll, according to the Spanish rules, you do get an opportunity to change facing which the English rules do not mention. You don't have to rely on Warning.

English:

• If the Guts Roll is successful, the troop can stand its ground and must do nothing else.

Spanish

• Si se supera la Tirada de Agallas, la tropa no está obligada a hacer nada y puede permanecer donde está, o puede mantener dicha posición pero girando sobre sí misma para ponerse de cara a una tropa enemiga, de modo que ésta quede dentro de su LDT.
• Google Translate: If the Guts Roll is surpassed, the troop is not forced to do anything and can stay where it is, or it can maintain that position but turning on itself to face an enemy troop, so that it falls within its LDT .

However, if you fail your guts and you can't improve your cover or get out of the danger zone, then you have to drop prone and you can't turn.

[Exile]

7 hours ago, dataentity said:

So this came up on WGC Infinity.

We've been doing the 'being shot from behind' thing wrong because of a translation error. You can go ahead and dodge because you'll still get a guts roll (assuming you failed against the shooting but passed the ARM/BTS roll). If you pass your guts roll, according to the Spanish rules, you do get an opportunity to change facing which the English rules do not mention. You don't have to rely on Warning.

English:

• If the Guts Roll is successful, the troop can stand its ground and must do nothing else.

Spanish

• Si se supera la Tirada de Agallas, la tropa no está obligada a hacer nada y puede permanecer donde está, o puede mantener dicha posición pero girando sobre sí misma para ponerse de cara a una tropa enemiga, de modo que ésta quede dentro de su LDT.
• Google Translate: If the Guts Roll is surpassed, the troop is not forced to do anything and can stay where it is, or it can maintain that position but turning on itself to face an enemy troop, so that it falls within its LDT .

However, if you fail your guts and you can't improve your cover or get out of the danger zone, then you have to drop prone and you can't turn. 

I saw this thread, and I'm withholding judgment until we get confirmation that this is in fact a translation error, only the verbiage above has been posted, not a Koni confirmation.

[dataentity]

Well, I was copy pasting the Spanish portion of the wiki, so unless someone intentionally messed with the wiki then I would say the English version is incomplete. None of the stuff from my post was copied directly from the WGC thread.

[dataentity]

If you want to see the finished product, it's at 17:28 in the video. Took him 20 minutes to finish one of them which is damn fast.

[dataentity]

https://imgur.com/a/LAvIice

Album of painted bases using the contrast paints. This is probably useful for anyone looking to pick up these paints.

Some of these definitely do not match what the digital swatch shows.

[Sgt. Rock]

That stuff looks really nice, I'm pretty excited. I've seen some people do some seriously nice looking stuff by painting it over top of a metallic color.

[dataentity]

Late, but on Sunday I ran Shasvastii, proxied of course.

List:

 Shasvastii Expeditionary Force
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 110  
SHESKIIN Red Fury, Pulzar, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 54)
NOX Combi Rifle, Zapper / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
NOX Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Zapper / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
MENTOR Lieutenant Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
SEED-SOLDIER (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
SEED-SOLDIER (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
SEED-SOLDIER (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
SPECULO KILLER (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
SHROUDED (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Dazer / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
AÏDA SWANSON 2 Submachine Gun, Viral Mines / Viral Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 24)

GROUP 21  4  4
NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
TAIGHA Chain-colt / DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
TAIGHA Chain-colt / DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
TAIGHA Chain-colt / DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
TAIGHA Chain-colt / DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)

4 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

The table we played on was Raindog's which was extremely open. Not suited for a relatively short ranged list but what can you do? Opponent was Exile running a high order NCA list.

Highlights:

Deployment was unfavorable. I picked the wrong side. I should have picked Exile's side which had a column that would have made an excellent Noctifer perch. It basically saw 90% of the table.

Turn 1 Exile spent orders to remove the mine watching his fireteam that, in the other direction, would have gotten his flash pulse bot and bulleteer. Then spent a couple of orders and command tokens to litter the middle of the table with sniffers. I, luckily, had almost nothing mid table mostly because there wasn't even anywhere to hide. Then most of the rest of the turn was spent dealing with my Speculo and Noctifer ML. On my active, I spent far too many orders fighting flash pulse AROs. Taighas, given the open table, mostly ran out to die resulting in a seed soldier getting caught in one of the blast templates. Sheskiin got stunned resulting in me having to try and use Aida. Aida got into a bad split burst fight against the Deva and Hexa resulting in 0 successful hits against either and Aida dying. Tied zones, so it was 1:1.

Turn 2 Exile systematically took out most of my remaining orders and killing my designated target with his data tracker. Killing the Nox and basically controlling the board. By the time it was my turn again, I could get my Taigha out to chaincolt a flash pulse bot and the designated target, getting me 1 point. I tried to cautious move Sheskiin into better range to fight the 5-man missile launcher ARO piece, but she was just barely seen at the end of the movement by the Auxilia resulting in a very very dead Sheskiin. 3 orders left with basically just boarding shotguns left, it was game over. Round would have ended 5:3.

Turn 3 didn't happen, but Exile could easily control more zones and finish his classified to get a major at 8:3. I didn't have any ARO presence to stop him.

 

So, takeaways.

I still think Seedsoldiers are very good. They're relatively cheap for almost infiltrating specialists that function as a 2 use mine. Just not good on an open table where the points you're paying for Forward Deployment L2 are wasted.

Noctifer is, obviously, very good.

Shrouded with Dazer I feel could have done a lot of work but, again, not many places to put him. I tried to roll for the extended deployment to basically catch Exile's fireteams, but rolling on a 9 didn't work.

Speculo Minelayer is filthy. Didn't really get to use her, but to get mines right along a line of infantry turn 0 is very useful. Even if it didn't kill anything, it did eat orders.

Sheskiin needs to be played aggressively. With BS 15, just throw dice at things. You will always be able to hit something because maxing out on a -12 still leaves you critting on 3's and 1's, and, even without the link bonus, you have ~35% chance to just crit something. If you have the 3-person link bonus, you have a ~40% chance to crit something. I thought I was pinned down by a long range ML, but just throwing dice at it would have solved the problem.

Oh, and remember the Shasvastii rule. Unconscious models scoring zones is hilariously good.

[dataentity]

Okay, so I went and got contrast paints for my Tohaa / Spiral Corps.

Lesson 1 with these: you REALLY REALLY REALLY need to shake the paint pot. A lot. Like a [big bad swear word] ton. And the first bit you get out of the pot from the Citadel's little lid lifter thing? You basically want to throw it away.

There's way too much pigment in that first bit I got out such that the white looked grey and the grey looks black.

 

But DAMN if that paint doesn't go on smooth. I know there's spots I can clean up but I'm just feeling done for now. Given the mistakes I had at the start I think that actually looks pretty good. The cloak I will need to think about; I tried putting a pearlescent  paint on it but the color was not anywhere near where the color I was expecting. So I tried just covering it with the shyish purple and it ended up basically black.

[Exile]

I saw a Miniac video earlier this morning he reported that there were several colors in the line that were far more Opaque than the rest, I'm pretty sure Shyish Purple was one of those.. lemme dig up the chart

 

https://imgur.com/a/LVByjFr

 

And the video it comes from

 

[dataentity]

It probably would have been properly purple if I hadn't tried to cover up the pearlescent paint with it, or painted white first before putting the shyish purple over it. As it is, I don't think it's awful. I can always go back and fix it with a bit of grey or white.

I guess I should clarify. That black part of the bodysuit? For the lower torso and thighs? That was the starting bit of Basilicum Grey I started using. That same Basilicum Grey is also what I used on the arms and for the bits of the lower legs and boots. So I'm fairly certain part of the problem is just that the pigment gets stuck to the tongue on the lid of the paint pot, resulting in absurdly dark paint. It's probably my inexperience with GW paint pots that caused that.

[dataentity]

Talking to myself but wanting feedback?

For OFCC, I'm still mostly worried about Highly Classified. If I'm taking Spiral Corps, they're just limited on good specialists. So here's the current list I'm thinking about.

 Spiral Corps
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10  
 NEEMA Lieutenant (Advanced Command) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Viral Pistol, Shock CCW. (1.5 | 48)
 HATAIL AELIS KEESAN Viral Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
 TAAGMA (Tri-Core) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
 TAAGMA (Multispectral Visor L2) Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)
 CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor, Fireteam: Special Triad) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
 CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor, Fireteam: Special Triad) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
 KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
 KOSUIL Engineer Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
 KRIIGEL Breaker Combi Rifle + Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
 KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)

GROUP 23  / 3  
 CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
 CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor, Fireteam: Special Triad) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
 CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor, Fireteam: Special Triad) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
 DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
 HELOT MILITIAMAN Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
 HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)

 6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

Trying to be more flexible in links. It's just lacking the redundancy I'd hope I'd have in a specialist heavy link.

I'm finding the Kumotail just so expensive for only 2/20 possible scenarios just to get a doctor on the board. 22 points for a single wound model in Tohaa and no survivability seems rough. Yes, she's also an engineer, but when I can easily bring a good engineer in a Kosuil.

The only other thing I was considering was trying to find space for a wardriver, just because a hacker can cover so many classifieds between Spotlight for FO replacement and hacker specific classifieds. But then a wardriver is just so SWC heavy.

Not sure. Any thoughts?