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Andrewgeddon

"2D Terrain"

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So I've been spending some time looking at 9th Age terrain, trying to get my at home table up to snuff. Cost + time have made this pretty difficult though, when you're paying ~$30 - $50 or more per piece. I came across these from Green Stuff World, neoprene "mousepad" style terrain. $25 gets you all you need for probably 2 tables.

http://www.greenstuffworld.com/en/inicio/626-2d-terrain-set-22-pieces.html?search_query=terrain&results=13

Curious on people's opinions? I know we are all very visual gamers (myself included), but this seems like a pretty elegant solution, at least to my problems.

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4 hours ago, Andrewgeddon said:

So I've been spending some time looking at 9th Age terrain, trying to get my at home table up to snuff. Cost + time have made this pretty difficult though, when you're paying ~$30 - $50 or more per piece. I came across these from Green Stuff World, neoprene "mousepad" style terrain. $25 gets you all you need for probably 2 tables.

http://www.greenstuffworld.com/en/inicio/626-2d-terrain-set-22-pieces.html?search_query=terrain&results=13

Curious on people's opinions? I know we are all very visual gamers (myself included), but this seems like a pretty elegant solution, at least to my problems.

Warmachine/Hordes encourages 2d terrain. Game mechanics-wise, 2d terrain is much more practical. The main arguement against is visuals. 

And then, of course, the next logical question arises: If 2d terrain, why not 2d models? 2d terrain makes it harder to justify paying for 3d models, especially given that very few rulesets actually use all three dimensions in any meaningful way. And if visuals aren't important, why pay for them?

If cost in the concern, I recommend green felt for forests, grey for ruins, and so forth. I don't think it's worthwhile getting fancy 2d terrain. Then, over time, I suggest replacing the cheap 2d felt with actual 3d terrain that you built yourself.

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49 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Warmachine/Hordes encourages 2d terrain. Game mechanics-wise, 2d terrain is much more practical. The main arguement against is visuals. 

And then, of course, the next logical question arises: If 2d terrain, why not 2d models? 2d terrain makes it harder to justify paying for 3d models, especially given that very few rulesets actually use all three dimensions in any meaningful way. And if visuals aren't important, why pay for them?

If cost in the concern, I recommend green felt for forests, grey for ruins, and so forth. I don't think it's worthwhile getting fancy 2d terrain. Then, over time, I suggest replacing the cheap 2d felt with actual 3d terrain that you built yourself.

I see your point. I think professionally printed 2D terrain would be my stopping point though. If you're using 2D models and felt, why play a miniature game at all, instead of a board game?

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2D Terrain is a very good option for people concerned about budget, small storage space, and/or transportation. If you do some googling, you can also find “paper craft” terrain (farmers’ cottages and town walls) that can be broken down and folded flat.

Not quite as aesthetically pleasing as “proper” terrain, but if you only occasionally play at home and don’t have budget or storage space for fancier stuff... Why not?

(Plus it’s really useful for those of us who are also GMs for fantasy role playing games.)

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35 minutes ago, Andrewgeddon said:

I see your point. I think professionally printed 2D terrain would be my stopping point though. If you're using 2D models and felt, why play a miniature game at all, instead of a board game?

Well, board games are usually more expensive than just using felt and tokens...I mean, that's being super cheap. Rules are pretty easy to acquire for free online. 

Warmachine and Malifaux also feature rules where the model's dimensions for game purposes are established in the rules, so the need for a physical model is very minor (you do need the base). 

Anyway, I like the 3d models and 3d terrain. If the concern was budget, think felt is a good temporary approach while you direct your funds at the armies. Then, eventually, replace the felt with 3d terrain. 

If storage space is the concern, I suggest deciding on 3d terrain based on how easy it is to store. Just because ruins and forests are the classic tables, doesn't mean you have to go that direction. Find/make terrain that works within your limitations. 

And of course, you could just play all your home games in an open field....definitely means changing certain tactics, but you could do it. And realistically, you should sometimes be fighting in an open field regardless of which tabletop battlegame you are playing.

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15 hours ago, Andrewgeddon said:

I've also messed around with papercraft terrain,  mounted on foam core. Sturdy and cheap, but takes a bit of effort to make it look look "proper."

Sounds like we need to have a papercraft terrain party. 

Perhaps we could also talk @evil_bryan into showing us how to use his foam slicing stuff so we can make our own hills/cliffs/impassable on the super cheap.

Your point about the time variable is well put though, making terrain takes a long time until we find some good hax.

Friends don't let friends buy 2D terrain, even if that is what the fancy pants Europeans all use.

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57 minutes ago, TheBeninator said:

Your point about the time variable is well put though, making terrain takes a long time until we find some good hax.

Personally, I’ve always enjoyed making terrain more than almost anything else in the hobby, aside from actually playing. I’d much rather be hip deep in pink foam, static grass, and Mod Podge than painting my miniatures. 

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1 hour ago, TheBeninator said:

Sounds like we need to have a papercraft terrain party. 

Perhaps we could also talk @evil_bryan into showing us how to use his foam slicing stuff so we can make our own hills/cliffs/impassable on the super cheap.

Your point about the time variable is well put though, making terrain takes a long time until we find some good hax.

Friends don't let friends buy 2D terrain, even if that is what the fancy pants Europeans all use.

Or we could have an actual terrain party 🙂

I have the tools at the club and would be happy to assist in a terrain building session. 

The first question I have is what type of terrain you are looking for. I probably have an idea and/or technique to build just about anything you are looking for. 🙂  

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I think for my personal use, 2D terrain would be sufficient; Storage is at a premium at my house, and games are hardly every played there. That being said, I am planning on running a 9th Age event in March, and I might have to provide a not insignificant chunk of terrain.

Forgive the vague descriptions, but terrain used in 9th Age consists of:

-Buildings
-Cliffs (man, I hate cliffs)
-Fields
-Forests
-Hills
-Ruins
-Walls
-Water

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I’ve always liked the way that terrain is handled by Saga; Terrain is all given specific states for height (high enough to block LOS or too low), cover (helps in shooting or helps in shooting and mêlée), difficulty (no effect, slows movement, slows movement and might injure you, impassible), and finally size (small, up to 20 cm x 20 cm, or large, up to 30 cm x 30 cm).

These stats all combine to define explicitly how a type of terrain works: All fields are small or large, low, uneven, light cover, for example. Doesn’t matter if it’s an Anglo-Saxon wheat field, an Iroquois corn field, or whatever. If it’s a field, it’s a field. The predefined terrain types are field, hill, marsh, rocky ground, ruins, steep hill, and woods.

When setting up the table*, for the default “non-scenario scenario,” you are limited to no more than one large terrain piece of any kind. There are also limits on the numbers of other types of terrain. So you don’t have to worry about your pick-up game suddenly turning into the Normandy landings because one player decided to put every river in the clubhouse on the table! 

*Saga is played on a 3’ x 4’ table by default. For the 6’ x 4’ standard for WHFB/9th Age/KoW, I’d probably double these numbers. 

 

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On 9/24/2018 at 1:03 PM, Andrewgeddon said:

So I've been spending some time looking at 9th Age terrain, trying to get my at home table up to snuff. Cost + time have made this pretty difficult though, when you're paying ~$30 - $50 or more per piece. I came across these from Green Stuff World, neoprene "mousepad" style terrain. $25 gets you all you need for probably 2 tables.

http://www.greenstuffworld.com/en/inicio/626-2d-terrain-set-22-pieces.html?search_query=terrain&results=13

Curious on people's opinions? I know we are all very visual gamers (myself included), but this seems like a pretty elegant solution, at least to my problems.

Coming from the Warmachine side, where we use practically nothing but 2D terrain... It wins on clean play, cost, and convenience. It fails pretty hard on looks, though, and I've had more than a few games where a piece of terrain was misplayed because it was 2D - e.g., someone (me) planned out their turn forgetting that a LOS- and movement-blocking house was blocking their assassination run...

The best compromise, IMO, is to have 3D terrain with 2D templates underneath, so that when models move into the terrain or you need to make careful measurements, you can remove the 3D piece and still have the area template to play with.

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Terrain came in yesterday! Shipping was pretty quick coming from Spain (went through ebay rather than the Green Stuff World website, was a bit cheaper), although a little expensive, $12. Pretty happy with it; Cheap, easy to store, already painted. Not perfect, but will do for the rare "at home" games. Only real complaint is that the box is a little flimsy. Would be nice to have something a bit more stout to use a permanent storage, but I can obviously just find another box.

Contents:

3x Hills
3x Forests
2x Fields
6x Walls
2x Water / Lakes
2xRuins
2x Buildings
2x Rocks

Also, pretty funny that they used the hamlet from Darkest Dungeon on the cover, heh.

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Looks like I'm late to this topic, but I purchased the rivers set a while back and its terrific. They also make great mousepads if you need one for the odd game of Vermintide or similar.  🙂

 

...and Greenstuffworld has a whole bunch of really cool products...check them out.

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