Ish Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Blades of Khorne, Maggotkin of Nurgle, Stormcast Eternals, Disciples of Tzeentch, and the Legion of Nagash all have a ridiculous number of available units compared to the other factions in the game. ORDER - Collegiate Arcane: 6 Units (0 Unique, 0 Battleline) - Darkling Covens: 7 Units (0 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Daughters of Khaine: 14 Units (1 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Devoted of Sigmar: 5 Units (0 Unique, 1 Battleline) - Dispossessed: 10 Units (0 Unique, 4 Battleline) - Eldritch Council: 5 Units (0 Unique, 1 Battleline) - Free Peoples: 10 Units (0 Unique, 6 Battleline) - Fyreslayers: 15 Units (1 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Idoneth Deepkin: 14 Units (2 Unique, 4 Battleline) - Ironweld Arsenal: 9 Units (0 Unique, 0 Battleline) - Kharadron Overlords: 12 Units (1 Unique, 1 Battleline) - Lion Rangers: 2 Units (0 Unique, 0 Battleline) - Order Draconis: 3 Units (0 Unique, 1 Battleline) - Order Serpentis: 4 Units (0 Unique, 2 Battleline) - Phoenix Temple: 4 Units (0 Unique, 1 Battleline) - Scourge Privateers: 4 Units (0 Unique, 1 Battleline) - Seraphon: 25 Units (1 Unique, 4 Battleline) - Stormcast Eternals: 52 Units (7 Unique, 4 Battleline) - Sylvaneth: 12 Units (2 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Shadowblades: 2 Units (0 Unique, 1 Battleline) - Swifthawk Agents: 7 Units (0 Unique, 2 Battleline) - Wanderers: 11 Units (0 Unique, 4 Battleline) CHAOS - Beasts of Chaos: 26 Units (0 Unique, 6 Battleline) - Blades of Khorne: 59 Units (7 Unique, 8 Battleline) - Clan Eshin: 5 Units (0 Unique, 2 Battleline) - Clan Moulder: 7 Units (0 Unique, 2 Battleline) - Clan Pestilens: 6 Units (0 Unique, 2 Battleline) - Clan Skryre: 12 Units (0 Unique, 2 Battleline) - Clan Verminus: 7 Units (2 Unique, 2 Battleline) - Disciples of Tzeentch: 49 Units (3 Unique, 5 Battleline) - Everchosen: 4 Units (1 Unique, 1 Battleline) - Hosts of Slaanesh: 35 Units (2 Unique, 5 Battleline) - Legion of Azgorh: 15 Units (2 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Maggotkin of Nurgle: 57 Units (13 Unique, 5 Battleline) - Masterclan: 9 Units (1 Unique, 0 Battleline) - Monsters of Chaos: 17 Units (0 Unique, 0 Battleline) - Slaves to Darkness: 21 Units (2 Unique, 5 Battleline) - Tamurkhan's Horde: 6 Units (2 Unique, 2 Battleline) - Warherd: 4 Units (0 Unique, 1 Battleline) DEATH - Deathlords: 6 Units (4 Unique, 0 Battleline) - Deathmages: 2 Units (0 Unique, 0 Battleline) - Deathrattle: 6 Units (0 Unique, 1 Battleline) - Fleash Eater Courts: 12 Units (0 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Legion of Nagash: 40 Units (5 Unique, 7 Battleline) - Nighthaunt: 24 Units (4 Unique, 4 Battleline) - Soulblight: 11 Units (2 Unique, 1 Battleline) DESTRUCTION - Beastclaw Raiders: 10 Units (0 Unique, 5 Battleline) - Bonesplitterz: 10 Units (0 Unique, 5 Battleline) - Gitmob Grots: 10 Units (0 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Greenskinz: 6 Units (0 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Gutbusters: 9 Units (0 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Ironjawz: 9 Units (1 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Moonclan Grots: 10 Units (0 Unique, 3 Battleline) - Spiderfang Grots: 4 Units (0 Unique, 1 Battleline) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 I still think they should have had a fifth grand alliance for Drukhari, wanderers and such. I would model it off of Confrontations neutral alliance destiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 40 minutes ago, Jay said: I still think they should have had a fifth grand alliance for Drukhari, wanderers and such. I would model it off of Confrontations neutral alliance destiny. Yeah, stuff like the Daughters of Khaine really doesn't feel very comfortable in Order. Sylvaneth would arguably be a better fit there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 The four Grand Alliance structure has always felt awkward and forced to me. There was a certain degree of genius in the structure of the WHFB setting and history that gave every faction a reason to battle every other faction... Sure, most of the time the High Elves and the Dark Elves hated each other. Just like most of the Bretonnians and the Empire grudgingly got along. But there were many points in the history of the setting and just enough ambiguity in the "present day" of the setting where you could have allies turn on allies or see bitter foes team-up to take on a greater threat. The four Grand Alliance structure strikes me as a lazy way to avoid having to do the "heavy lifting" of world building a detailed history and political structure for the new game. I like the game mechanically, but I'm not crazy about the setting. It's gotten better since they launched it, but its still rather barren... Personally, I'd like to see them break up the four Grand Alliance structure and replace it with five or six coalitions. The coalitions can draw allies from one of the other members of their coalition when building an army, but we'd get rid of all the current allegiances that only have 10 or fewer units. Most of those were all parts of older WHFB factions, merge them back together! Chaos Blades of Khorne (Khornate mortals and daemons) Disciples of Tzeentch (Tzeentch mortals and daemons) Everchosen of Archaon (unaligned chaos) Hosts of Slaanesh (Slaaneshi mortals and daemons) Maggotkin of Nurgle (Khornate mortals and daemons) Swarms of Skaven (exactly what it says on the tin) Mortal Kingdoms Stormcast Eternals Kingdoms of Man (old Empire and Bretonnian lines with new fluff) Kharadon Overlords Fyreslayers Dwarven Holds (old Dwarf line) Aelven Alliance Daughters of Khaine (and all the old Dark Elf subfactions) Idoneth Deepkin Phoenix Kingdoms (reunite all the old High Elf subfactions) Sylvaneth Glades (reunite the Wanderers and the Sylvaneth) Da Great Waaagh! Orcs (all of `em) Goblins (all of `em) Legions of Nagash Deathrattle Flesh Eater Courts Nighthaunt Soulblight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewgeddon Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 27 minutes ago, Ish said: The four Grand Alliance structure has always felt awkward and forced to me. There was a certain degree of genius in the structure of the WHFB setting and history that gave every faction a reason to battle every other faction... Sure, most of the time the High Elves and the Dark Elves hated each other. Just like most of the Bretonnians and the Empire grudgingly got along. But there were many points in the history of the setting and just enough ambiguity in the "present day" of the setting where you could have allies turn on allies or see bitter foes team-up to take on a greater threat. The four Grand Alliance structure strikes me as a lazy way to avoid having to do the "heavy lifting" of world building a detailed history and political structure for the new game. I like the game mechanically, but I'm not crazy about the setting. It's gotten better since they launched it, but its still rather barren... Personally, I'd like to see them break up the four Grand Alliance structure and replace it with five or six coalitions. The coalitions can draw allies from one of the other members of their coalition when building an army, but we'd get rid of all the current allegiances that only have 10 or fewer units. Most of those were all parts of older WHFB factions, merge them back together! Chaos Blades of Khorne (Khornate mortals and daemons) Disciples of Tzeentch (Tzeentch mortals and daemons) Everchosen of Archaon (unaligned chaos) Hosts of Slaanesh (Slaaneshi mortals and daemons) Maggotkin of Nurgle (Khornate mortals and daemons) Swarms of Skaven (exactly what it says on the tin) Mortal Kingdoms Stormcast Eternals Kingdoms of Man (old Empire and Bretonnian lines with new fluff) Kharadon Overlords Fyreslayers Dwarven Holds (old Dwarf line) Aelven Alliance Daughters of Khaine (and all the old Dark Elf subfactions) Idoneth Deepkin Phoenix Kingdoms (reunite all the old High Elf subfactions) Sylvaneth Glades (reunite the Wanderers and the Sylvaneth) Da Great Waaagh! Orcs (all of `em) Goblins (all of `em) Legions of Nagash Deathrattle Flesh Eater Courts Nighthaunt Soulblight Ogres? Beastclaw Raiders / Gutbusters? Don't seem to fit in any of those. I actually think all the alliances fit really well, with only some of the elven factions feeling shoehorned into "Order." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, Andrewgeddon said: Ogres? Beastclaw Raiders / Gutbusters? Don't seem to fit in any of those. I actually think all the alliances fit really well, with only some of the elven factions feeling shoehorned into "Order." Order is definitely the one that has issues. It kind of feels to me like it was filled by process of elimination. As someone else put it, anyone who doesn't worship the chaos gods, isn't dead, and and doesn't feel the need to randomly smash and tear down things goes in Order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Oops, forgot about the Fatties... Hey, I was just knocking something out stream of consciousness. What's GW's excuse? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 18 hours ago, Ish said: Oops, forgot about the Fatties... Hey, I was just knocking something out stream of consciousness. What's GW's excuse? That's just how GW always does things. On the one hand, the whole idea of having equal factions is unrealistic with GW running things. On the other hand, you really don't need to field lots of different units is normal games. And if fielding the same few units over and over works, is there anything wrong with that? Dunno, just a GW thing. I suppose you could look into FW for some additional options. I will note with your lists that Undivided and Everchosen are pretty much opposites. Undivided is Agnostic regarding the chaos gods, while Everchosen zealously worships the Pantheon of chaos gods. Though I haven't read any of the new edition's fluff, so this may have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 I didn’t say “undivided,” I said “unaligned.” Meaning they don’t serve one of the Ruinous Powers exclusively, like the other factions do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 I also don’t think it’s necessary to have a perfect 1:1 ratio of available units between every army. As long as a faction has enough units to fill all the roles that make thematic sense and allow players some choice in how to build their collections... But it’s more than a little silly to have some factions be unplayable due to lacking required elements (e.g., Ironweld Arsenal has no Battleline) and kind of weird to see some individual factions that have more unique name characters than several factions entire number of units. Plus, no matter how you slice it, the fact that the Stormcast have gotten four Battletomes in five years is just ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, they’re the stars of the setting and very popular with the fans... But, c’mon, they don’t even push out [big bad swear word] for the Space Marines at this sort of pace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 On 10/20/2018 at 12:19 PM, Ish said: I didn’t say “undivided,” I said “unaligned.” Meaning they don’t serve one of the Ruinous Powers exclusively, like the other factions do. Undivided means unaligned. It's a term GW used to use, if they don't now. Having a mark means that the god specifically has marked you, not that you chose to worship a particular deity. Being undivided/unaligned means that no deity has noticed you yet, at least not by enough to bless you with a mark. Archaeon is is the opposite, as he's aligned to each of the chaos gods because he has proven himself worth of all of them. Abaddon is the 40k equivalent. I suppose it's the distinction between being Undivided and being united. Similar concepts. Archaeon is Chaos United. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 I meant for it to encompass Chaos units that are not specifically linked to one of Ruinous Powers. There would be one sub-faction for each of the five Chaos Gods and one for everybody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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