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SpaceORK's Orks... n' other armies.


SPaceORK

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1 minute ago, Lyraeus said:

Easily better at smashing knights. 

I think one set for 360 is a good threat force and is usable in a wide variety of situations 

I have two, so after I get another I will definitely be trying it. I just feel I would still rather have the boyz as they do more than just smash things. And plus if you have lootas in your list knights arnt that scary.

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5 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

I have two, so after I get another I will definitely be trying it. I just feel I would still rather have the boyz as they do more than just smash things. And plus if you have lootas in your list knights arnt that scary.

Yes and no. Lootas are good but reliability is a big thing. They can definitely do it though 

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"Two is one and one is none." 

If you only have the Lootas or the Dreads to do the job, then inevitably you'll run into a situation where you either have two targets you need to go after with one unit... or worse, your opponent will focus fire them off the table. 

 

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42 minutes ago, Ish said:

"Two is one and one is none." 

If you only have the Lootas or the Dreads to do the job, then inevitably you'll run into a situation where you either have two targets you need to go after with one unit... or worse, your opponent will focus fire them off the table. 

 

That's what I learned today. Multiple threats that can take a beating or be a threat. So for me, both will be a test

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9 minutes ago, Ish said:

That's also one of the challenges involved in playing lower point budget games.  

Tell me about it. With today's lessons this is what I crafted for 1k pts

 


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [32 PL, 565pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 84pts]: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [7 PL, 98pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 13x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Boyz [7 PL, 91pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 12x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Heavy Support +

Lootas [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Loota

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Orks) [21 PL, 435pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 80pts]: Shokk Attack Gun

+ Elites +

Meganobz [6 PL, 129pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota

Tankbustas [4 PL, 85pts]
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 4x Tankbusta: 4x Rokkit Launcha

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

++ Total: [53 PL, 1000pts] ++

 

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11 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Yes and no. Lootas are good but reliability is a big thing. They can definitely do it though 

Well 2&3 shot per gun is pretty good. And with a cp reroll they become pretty reliable. 

But your absolutely right. Relying on just them is not great. That's where kommandos and deepstriking boyz come in. They give you that second wave you need. And throwing them at anything t7 or lower is absolutely doable through weight of dice.

The whole 3 deff dredd thing may be another wave that does some work as well. The stats support it, I just dont know if they are worth the points.

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10 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Tell me about it. With today's lessons this is what I crafted for 1k pts

 


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [32 PL, 565pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 84pts]: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [7 PL, 98pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 13x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Boyz [7 PL, 91pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 12x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Heavy Support +

Lootas [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Loota

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Orks) [21 PL, 435pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 80pts]: Shokk Attack Gun

+ Elites +

Meganobz [6 PL, 129pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota

Tankbustas [4 PL, 85pts]
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 4x Tankbusta: 4x Rokkit Launcha

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

++ Total: [53 PL, 1000pts] ++

 

So I think the nob with waaaaaagh banner is a trap. You already hit on 3's with 87,534,278 attacks. If it's for the buzzsaw big boyz, more nobs may be better? Swap out the tankbustas and Waaagh banner for more nobs. So you can either da jump them or have them ride in the trukk.

I think you end up doing more wounds overall because the rockets probably wont hit and more buzzsaws will overcome the lose of +1 to hit from the banner. I dunno. 

Why death skulls over evil sunz?

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3 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Why death skulls over evil sunz?

Mainly because I like Deathskulls but also for the consistent rerolls and last ditch invul Save on everything. Ah, and because of the objective secured. Basically the entire rule is to my liking and I am not trying to go WAAC. 

 

The problem is points. Always points, well and models. I am getting more nobz but I am either waiting on them to come in or to be painted. 

The other thing I am looking at is being versatile. The trukk with the meganobz, banner, and bustas can engage hesgy targets at range, the banner negates the saws penalty making the 12 attacks to be more consistent and is a character with objective secured so for some missions in the new Chapter Approved book, especially the ones that say "only characters can capture these" he becomes useful. Though a pain boy might be nice. Still I want to test this out

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21 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Absolutely!

My friend is an a-hole and deserves things like that to happen to him.

Also the tau titan is waaaaay overcosted. He needs to be around 837 with the battlesuit keyword or around 637 without. Making it immortal with drones and healing strats is cute but not really worth it in 2k. Like I feel if I brought it to a tournament at it's current points cost, I would ambush a couple players but a Castellan would just wreck me.

Annnnd bringing titans to 2k games is just bad in general I think. Sure you may not be able to kill it, but can I do enough damage to block a skilled opponent from just beating me at the objective game? Probably not...

Side note, how is the kit and how does it play? Worth it?

I've definitely been tempted to purchase one.

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Regarding point costs on the TAU titan, I think it pays for a lot for it's melee abilities (2 melee related special rules, a melee weapon, and a respectable for tay WS 4+). And it's a Battlesuit. And it benefits from the SEPT.

And don't forget the macro rule. Against a titanic model (or a building), they do double damage. So your pulse ordnance multi-driver could potentially deal 72 damage to another titanic model in one big blast. Realistically, it will do much less, but the potential is there. And I think you pay for the potential.

 

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2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Side note, how is the kit and how does it play? Worth it?

I've definitely been tempted to purchase one.

The kit is fine for titan size models. Not the worst I've built, not the best. The worst part is it has tiny ankles supporting a fat body.

Yea I know what rules it has but the total package is not worth 1100+ point. It would be competitive at 837 (essentially making it the Tau Castellan). It would be appropriate for semi competitive and casual at 950ish. You just want some more support or troops with it.

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2 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Mainly because I like Deathskulls but also for the consistent rerolls and last ditch invul Save on everything. Ah, and because of the objective secured. Basically the entire rule is to my liking and I am not trying to go WAAC. 

 

The problem is points. Always points, well and models. I am getting more nobz but I am either waiting on them to come in or to be painted. 

The other thing I am looking at is being versatile. The trukk with the meganobz, banner, and bustas can engage hesgy targets at range, the banner negates the saws penalty making the 12 attacks to be more consistent and is a character with objective secured so for some missions in the new Chapter Approved book, especially the ones that say "only characters can capture these" he becomes useful. Though a pain boy might be nice. Still I want to test this out

Fair enough. 

But trying to optimize a bit is not WAAC. The game has a winner and a loser and it feels nice to win with something you built. 

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16 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

Fair enough. 

But trying to optimize a bit is not WAAC. The game has a winner and a loser and it feels nice to win with something you built. 

When most all options are pretty good but one option is superior and you aim for that option with the intent to win, it feels WAAC to me. 

 

In the case of kulturs for a charging army, evil sunz is the WAAC option because it gives you a huge mathematical boost. 

That's my opinion. I want to win and I have an evil sunz force being built (Kommandos included and nobz) with nob Warbikers and a Wartrike and the such but they are far from optimized really. Just there for the times I want to play with speed

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I feel that “WAAC,” like That Guy-ness, min/maxing, or ‘modeling for advantage’, is a matter of attitude more so than list building.

For me the “Win At All Costs” attitude carries certain connotations of anti-social attitude and borderline (if not outright) unsportsmanlike conduct. 

Trying to win differs from WAACy, and not being WAACy doesn’t mean you cannot try to win... But it does mean you don’t approach every game like it’s the Grand Master $1,000,000 Final Round of AdeptiNOVAopen.

Its hard to pin down, really, but it’s the like the difference between being This Guy and That Guy. I know it when I see it.

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2 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

The kit is fine for titan size models. Not the worst I've built, not the best. The worst part is it has tiny ankles supporting a fat body.

Yea I know what rules it has but the total package is not worth 1100+ point. It would be competitive at 837 (essentially making it the Tau Castellan). It would be appropriate for semi competitive and casual at 950ish. You just want some more support or troops with it.

I think the larger problem is that TAU lack a unit that's half way between this and the stormsurge in point cost. We need a non-flyer that's at 600pt mark. And the flyer would be fine if GW didn't screw with the sudden death rules.

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15 minutes ago, Ish said:

The Tau really need a super-heavy tank, sort of a Baneblade iteration of the Hammerhead.

So the thing with TAU that's tricky is that they are a glass cannon army. Making a really big glass cannon defeats the point. I think TAU flyers was the right direction to go, but the GW sudden death rule killed the viability of them at their point level.

That Tiger-shark (either version), is the TAU baneblade. Similar point costs too.

And it was perfectly viable until GW FAQed them to be worthless...(by making them not count as being alive for determining if the TAU are wiped). If the baneblades (and any embarked units) didn't count as alive, they'd never get fielded...

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2 hours ago, Ish said:

I feel that “WAAC,” like That Guy-ness, min/maxing, or ‘modeling for advantage’, is a matter of attitude more so than list building.

For me the “Win At All Costs” attitude carries certain connotations of anti-social attitude and borderline (if not outright) unsportsmanlike conduct. 

Trying to win differs from WAACy, and not being WAACy doesn’t mean you cannot try to win... But it does mean you don’t approach every game like it’s the Grand Master $1,000,000 Final Round of AdeptiNOVAopen.

Its hard to pin down, really, but it’s the like the difference between being This Guy and That Guy. I know it when I see it.

EXACTLY! 

For me, orks are yes about winning but removing my desire to always win and get validation from winning. It has led me to many many many stupid and horrible behavioral issues and while I am socially challenged, it needs to stop. 

So orks are more for me to enjoy the character. Enjoy the challenge (when it is a challenge and not a one sided slaughterfest) and either win, lose, or draw but learn to do it while having fun. 

So I make a slightly less optimal choice, I choose units that are  ot great (looking at you nob Warbikers with power klaws you damned point sink you!) and I try to, well play like an Ork, laughing even when I am losing because orks are never beaten 

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Ork players (and Orc players) are generally well liked by everyone in the community, as they generally tend to be fun people to play and the Ork (or Orc) army has very rarely been a "top tier" super-competitive one. They're very rarely bad but they are also very rarely great either... So even when we have those rare periods where a particular list build is seen as "powerful," like the brief heyday of the Bonesplitterz' Kunning Rukk or the Nob Bikers time in the sun during 6th (or was it 5th?) most players still don't regard the Ork/Orc players as min/maxers. If anything, the larger community seems to feel happy for them.

I'm not saying that every Ork/Orc player is This Guy, but they are almost never That Guy. 

Space Marines may be the iconic poster boys, Chaos may be the iconic arch-villains, and the Imperial Guard may be the beloved beleaguered underdogs*, but I think that Orks are the "heart" of the game. 

* From a narrative/thematic standpoint, at least. Mechanically, they've always been pretty damn good.

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23 minutes ago, Ish said:

Ork players (and Orc players) are generally well liked by everyone in the community, as they generally tend to be fun people to play and the Ork (or Orc) army has very rarely been a "top tier" super-competitive one. They're very rarely bad but they are also very rarely great either... So even when we have those rare periods where a particular list build is seen as "powerful," like the brief heyday of the Bonesplitterz' Kunning Rukk or the Nob Bikers time in the sun during 6th (or was it 5th?) most players still don't regard the Ork/Orc players as min/maxers. If anything, the larger community seems to feel happy for them.

I'm not saying that every Ork/Orc player is This Guy, but they are almost never That Guy. 

Space Marines may be the iconic poster boys, Chaos may be the iconic arch-villains, and the Imperial Guard may be the beloved beleaguered underdogs*, but I think that Orks are the "heart" of the game. 

* From a narrative/thematic standpoint, at least. Mechanically, they've always been pretty damn good.

Fair enough. After listening to Prophet of the Waaaghh audio book... Definitely the heart of character. I guess it's just my internal limitation on myself. 

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2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

So the thing with TAU that's tricky is that they are a glass cannon army. Making a really big glass cannon defeats the point. I think TAU flyers was the right direction to go, but the GW sudden death rule killed the viability of them at their point level.

That Tiger-shark (either version), is the TAU baneblade. Similar point costs too.

And it was perfectly viable until GW FAQed them to be worthless...(by making them not count as being alive for determining if the TAU are wiped). If the baneblades (and any embarked units) didn't count as alive, they'd never get fielded...

T'au are kind of in an awkward space there because of GW initially deciding that they wouldn't use traditional Super Heavy Tanks or Walkers, only Super Heavy Flyers, and sticking to that in a ton of the fluff. And then when they finally faced the fact that it was kind of a crap decision from a "selling models" PoV, they didn't have anything like the sort of gradual progression of size that most other Factions have. Only the Dark Eldar are really in the same boat, but since they can Ally with Craftworlds so easily, it's not really an issue for them. I feel like tau would probably be in a better place in that regard if GW/FW had just decided to do a "Great Hammerhead" or something back in the day instead of sticking them with the Flyer thing.

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3 minutes ago, WestRider said:

T'au are kind of in an awkward space there because of GW initially deciding that they wouldn't use traditional Super Heavy Tanks or Walkers, only Super Heavy Flyers, and sticking to that in a ton of the fluff. And then when they finally faced the fact that it was kind of a crap decision from a "selling models" PoV, they didn't have anything like the sort of gradual progression of size that most other Factions have. Only the Dark Eldar are really in the same boat, but since they can Ally with Craftworlds so easily, it's not really an issue for them. I feel like tau would probably be in a better place in that regard if GW/FW had just decided to do a "Great Hammerhead" or something back in the day instead of sticking them with the Flyer thing.

We need a voltron.

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On the other hand, GW also decided that that Tau are capable of extremely rapid technological development and military innovation. So if the Tau decided that aerospace and battle suits weren't working anymore, they could justify the Tau creating something new fairly easily. 

Tau-Heavy-Walker-Alt.jpg

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