Shooty Space Marine advice?

[Dark Trainer]

Nephew is getting started with Space Marines and he originally wanted a gunline, heavy shooty but strong enough to hold out (not out shooting guard/tau), but enough to put some hurt down.

The real question is, which codex would you use? I was led to Dark Angels, but would love opinions on that. Should he do vanilla marines, dark angels, etc?

For now he'll have a captain, librarian, 2 tact squads, 5 scouts, 5 terminators, a TL razorback, whirlwhind, & land speeder). We can add more as we go, just trying to get a feel of what codex or list you'd run to make a more gunline approach. He'll be using bolter rule too.

[andy]

I think Salamanders have a lot going for them. The rerolls are nice, plus who doesn't like purging the heretic with fire? Also, the color scheme is pretty easy for a beginner.

[Dark Trainer]

1 minute ago, andy said:

I think Salamanders have a lot going for them. The rerolls are nice, plus who doesn't like purging the heretic with fire? Also, the color scheme is pretty easy for a beginner.

That's just in the space marine codex?

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Dark Trainer said:

Nephew is getting started with Space Marines and he originally wanted a gunline, heavy shooty but strong enough to hold out (not out shooting guard/tau), but enough to put some hurt down.

The real question is, which codex would you use? I was led to Dark Angels, but would love opinions on that. Should he do vanilla marines, dark angels, etc?

For now he'll have a captain, librarian, 2 tact squads, 5 scouts, 5 terminators, a TL razorback, whirlwhind, & land speeder). We can add more as we go, just trying to get a feel of what codex or list you'd run to make a more gunline approach. He'll be using bolter rule too.

Any.

All chapters of marines can put a heavy shooty army on the table and they should be strong enough to hold out. Chaos legions too. Since the marines lack numbers, durability is important for marine gunlines.

 

For a specific suggestion, I suggest Space Wolves. SW has a lot of good defensive psychic powers. They also can attach terminator "sergeants" to their tactical squads, which makes their troops more durable. And they've got some cool toys.

Additionally, by taking a "mono faction" codex, you avoid the army change compulsion that comes from owning a codex with lots of factions in it. Not the end of the world, but it's kinda bad for new players to keep changing their army.

[Brandon]

The Deathwatch Storm Bolter Storm Shield Veteran squads with Special Issue Ammo (2+ wounds), and Mission Tactics (reroll wound rolls of 1 for particular battlefield types) tends to be a very shooty army. Stand Still and shoot 4 shots per 20pt model. You can do a Primarus squad too without the 3++ saves. Not the best army but very shooty.

[VonVilkee]

48 minutes ago, Dark Trainer said:

That's just in the space marine codex?

Yep, salamanders are very forgiving while encouraging you to remember rerolls since every unit gets them regularly. They encourage MSU and dreadnoughts get the rerolls too. Helps eliminate blaming the dice excuses and facilitates learning the game and tactics. 

 

Highly recommend them single book and models that can be slanted differently as he grows in the hobby, marines are so flexible! 

[Dark Trainer]

Thanks, i was leaning toward dark angels but yeah salamander rerolling a single 1 to hit and wound seems very flexible for newb games. Plus since he can really play around it's a good start. We'll give it a go!

[Dark Trainer]

4 minutes ago, necrontyr said:

 

Dark Angels are great because they can re-roll 1s to hit if they don't move. Which is pretty standard for a gunline. Also their plasma guns are wicked with the trait and stratagem.

I guess i need to read that... Thanks.

[andy]

Dark Angels have a lot of hobby potential too, what with the Raven Wing and Death Wing subfactions. Would your nephew be ok playing a traitor army, though?

[VonVilkee]

1 minute ago, andy said:

Dark Angels have a lot of hobby potential too, what with the Raven Wing and Death Wing subfactions. Would your nephew be ok playing a traitor army, though?

I see what you did there...

[Sgt. Rock]

Crimson Fists are a pretty solid option, I think. With their chapter tactic, they really like being outnumbered, and while they skew shooty, they can definitely hold their own in melee if it comes to it/you choose to. In particular, if the new beta bolter rule comes into play, they should be able to really mulch through hordes of lightly armored infantry, especially with the use of the Bolter Drill stratagem. Most of their chapter relics are various bolters/bolt pistols, and their Vigilus Defiant detachment gives their Primaris dudes a serious boost to shooting, especially Hellblasters. Plus, they look cool, they've got a cool backstory, and they're the OG cover boys for Space Marines.

[Lyraeus]

So.. shooty Marines.... To be bland... Ultramarines are one of the better choices there. You get access to calgar for the reroll battery and have the firepower to do a strong ground game. 

With the new Shadowspear box set... There are some major threats in there. 

 

Oh go Deathwatch... Deathwatch has more dakka than sense.... You faced my Deffwotch Battalion with your necrons @Dark Trainer

[WestRider]

The thing about Deathwatch and Space Wolves is that there's a ton of stuff you end up with there that won't work for any other Chapter. DA /BAcan have some issues with that, too, but it's to a much lesser extent. For a starter shooty force, I'd go with DA or Salamanders, probably. That will give a solid core that can mostly be shuffled around if he wants to switch to a different Chapter later.

[Inquisitor66]

I would say Iron Hand for a good generic starter force.  Having a 6+ FNP will always help keep his stuff on the board regardless of the enemy force he faces.  Since its not situational it won't be hard to remember and will set him up for more heroic moments.  Also its a base Marine codex force, and if he doesn't like how it plays he can switch to one of the other chapters without buying a new book.

[SPaceORK]

Ultramarines are kinda...meh. But you get access to Bobby G who has the best aura in the game, period.

Dark Angel's are nice because the rerolls of 1 if they dont move. Which also works nicely with the bolter rule. They also get the spooky land speeder for -1 to hit and Azreal for 4++ bubble. So you can make your gunline quite resilient. Also they have the second best terminators in the game. Which is a nice unit to prevent charging your gunline.

Salamanders have a reroll which is nice.

Deathwatch obviously  has special issue ammo which is amazing on intercessors. Or anything with a bolter.

Blood Angels and Space Wolves want to smash face so maybe not the best shooting compared to the others. But they are good at protecting your gunline by being good at hitting things.

Black Templars, Imperial Fists, etc generally dont have much that greatly improve a gunline.  

[Guest]

 

15 hours ago, Dark Trainer said:

Thanks, i was leaning toward dark angels but yeah salamander rerolling a single 1 to hit and wound seems very flexible for newb games. Plus since he can really play around it's a good start. We'll give it a go!

It is notable that each marine codex has some unique units. For example, if your boy likes Centurions, he's only getting those in Codex: Space Marines.  

3 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Black Templars, Imperial Fists, etc generally dont have much that greatly improve a gunline.  

I'm told that new Chaos Stargate thing is both a BUILDING and destroyable (and it's basically a void shield generator that also boost psychic tests). Imperial fist chapter tactics definitely have merit if the opponent has destroyable buildings. Ignoring cover is also a big deal, but again, depends greatly on the opponent's. 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Blood Angels and Space Wolves want to smash face so maybe not the best shooting compared to the others. But they are good at protecting your gunline by being good at hitting things.

You are totally correct, but at the same time, their innate ability to smash face in melee boosts units otherwise not equipped for melee (for example, those melee-weak primaris units with no power weapons, aka hellblasters). SW or BA hellblasters would be a lot more dangerous in melee than DA or SM hellblasters. 

They still aren't the same as a real melee unit, but it can really help.

[Dark Trainer]

Thanks all, some great advice!

[Sugarlessllama]

I would have to say either Dark Angels or Ultramarines. 

Ultramarines are a fun faction in that they are simple, and the ability for everyone to be able to fall back out of combat and still shoot is really nice for a gun line. 

Dark Angels have the advantage of better overwatch (which lends itself well to a take and hold style of play), and with three sub-factions in one book you have lots of different ways to play. Which I think lends itself well to the longevity of an army.