Clearing things out.

[Munkie]

So, there's been some confusion and emotions behind the scenes and I've been asked to bring it to the light so the community can understand the situation and we can proceed openly.

What happened:

My OFCC team and I used money sitting in the Warhamster bank account to partially fund hiring an artist to create a new logo, buy giveaway stickers, and a team banner for the OFCC this year. We used these funds without permission from the club as a whole and without notifying the other signatory on the account.

There is no excuse for not communicating our intentions at the bare minimum, and for that I'll take responsibility. 

A lot of context:

(I'm going to keep this somewhat vague where necessary, because I'm not posting this to call anyone out)

For years we've struggled to decide exactly what we wanted to be. We had a formal organizational structure with a president, VP, treasurer, and Hamsterizer. Yet fundamental questions like "what does it require to become a member?" were never answered. Any time we tried, it was tabled. We were fundamentally just a bunch of gamers who enjoyed eachother's company and like to travel to gaming tournaments--the pinnacle being the OFCC. So we'd hold occasional meetings and talk about what we wanted to do and everyone would vote unanimously on doing that thing. That worked fine for years.

Over time, the club grew and grew. I think we once took 5 teams to the OFCC! Those questions we had been putting off and putting off started to become more important. When I was president,  I tried to answer a few of these questions. I also tried to move towards getting game arrangement out of an exclusive, entry-by-permission subforum and into the game room where I felt it belonged. There was opposition to my proposal and the way that was handled completely turned me off to being in a leadership position. 

Like me, the next 2 acting presidents got burned out by the frustrations of trying to fit a herd of squares into a slew of round holes. We were kinda stuck. Nobody was enjoying being in leadership positions anymore because more and more it seemed all anybody wanted was to hang out and game. Which is totally fine, but we don't need an organization for that.

Eventually @smashthedean was installed as the all-position leader on a "temporary basis". This was done without a vote and without soliciting the opinions of club memembers. The justification was that the previous president hadn't called a vote for too long. I can't speak for everyone, but I know for myself and others it was a pretty bold statement that our opinions were neither valued nor required for a permanent change to club structure. We were done pretending that votes mattered. Easy issues were voted on in the open, tough issues were just decided for us. A lot of people were done calling a spade a club.

Then Games Workshop nuked Warhammer Fantasy from high orbit and turned 40k into a [big bad swear word]fest. So we lost that camaraderic (new word) element tying us all together. Attendance dropped, very few are interested in traveling for tournaments anymore, and we're a disparate bunch playing any and all game systems...for a few weeks at a time anyway.

2 and a half years go by. No vote, no coup, no activity, no worries. 

Now, the why we used the funds:

We're sending one team to the OFCC this year. The exact same one team we sent last year. Two of our team members have no Warhamster swag at all, and we wanted to make sure we looked like a proper, unified team (there are achievements on the line!) this year. We are spending no small amount of personal money on this adventure, for however much that matters.

Since the club hasn't hosted an event in 2 years, and only a few of us are interested in traveling for events, we thought using club funds for this purpose was a good use of them. Otherwise, the money had been sitting there collecting dust and small amounts of interest. @VonVilkee is the captain of my OFCC team and one of the signatories on the account (for the last 8 years). He had requested existing files for the logo back in November, and his requests never materialized. So we just pulled the trigger on this instead. 

What we lost sight of, was that there are still a few people who take the "club" as an organization rather than simply an identity seriously. We should've respected that and communicated our plans with them. We weren't trying to be disrespectful, we just forgot that not everyone is checked out on participating in any level of formal club activity as many are.

We should've known better and communicated openly about it. We failed in that regard and I'm willing to own that failure. 

I'm sorry for my part in that lack of discretion.

I suppose the questions of whether the club exists on an organizational level anymore, to what degree, and why is a conversation long overdue. It's always easier to assume we're all on the same page, rather than talk about uncomfortable things, and scenarios like these are the unfortunate consequences of not having these conversations. 

So let's talk about what happens next.

[VonVilkee]

Kevin, thank you so much for saying this in a less emotional way than I ever could. I appreciate the transparency, and I apologize for my part in driving this course of action.

[intrizic]

Let's talk about integrity on this Memorial Day Monday.

We've all played against or heard about a game against a guy that rolled dice behind terrain, so the result couldn't be seen and they magically got the results they needed on a crucial roll.  Once this behavior is confirmed people stop playing games with this person because they lack integrity.  Integrity is import in gaming because without a certain level of trust a pleasant game turns into a torturous affair of babysitting your rules, their rules and their rolls, not a good time, from lack of integrity.  Without integrity you can't game, without integrity you don't have a community.

Let us say you donated money or [TIME AND EFFORT TO RUN AN EVENT] to a fund for something at a later date.  And that guy with no integrity decides; hey, that money is just sitting there, I have access, I asked a question but didn't get a response....

So let me ask you "How much integrity is there in just taking something because you didn't like the answer?" and my second question is "Why are you trying to hide theft behind something as insipid as 'club participation'?"  maybe the silence was the answer.  But this is the behavior of the guy with no integrity, the guy you have to watch when you play him.

However you justify your actions theft is theft.  I know the mechanics of how that money was raised, and I welcome anyone to argue with me that the effort required came solely from YOUR OFCC team. 

The explanation of:
There is money, the club went a way I didn't like and I didn't get a response for my question

all sound very weak and childish, when you consider that you stole that money from the people who worked for it and put it there.

I expected Kacey to be the morally defunct [big bad swear word]wit that would convince himself he unilateral discretion on those funds, but I'm not surprised Corey.

What REALLY amuses me is how surprised people are that Kevin is involved, LOL

 

[Fix]

I am of mixed minds on this because of course the method this was done in was completely inappropriate and, yes, tantamount to theft even the bank won't see it as so.  Communication should have been the easy part.  None of us are particularly hard to get ahold of, and the idea could have been brought up at any time in the time since this idea was conceived.  That said, I don't really disapprove of the use of club funds for something like making new banners and swag.  In the past we haven't funded that sort of stuff out of that account, but I'm generally all right with the idea.

I am expressly interested in how the costs break down here, because there was nearly $400 in there, and stickers aren't expensive.  In the interest of transparency I think we at least deserve to know that, because if the funds that were ostensibly for club promotion are actually being used for club promotion now at OFCC, then the rest of us ought to be able to use whatever imagery you bought with that money going forward.

[smashthedean]

This is a difficult topic with a lot of emotions flying around and I'd appreciate it if people could keep things civil. I think this is a discussion that is important for us to have and I really appreciate Kevin putting a post together to explain his side of the issue, but we aren't going to get anywhere with name-calling or disparaging remarks about people. That all said, here is my side of the issue:

Background
I was elected club Treasurer at one of our first official meetings nearly a decade ago. The role of the Treasurer was laid out as the person responsible for managing and spending the funds raised by the club through things like events and shirt sales. At the time I was elected, we decided to open a Warhamsters Club account at WECU to house the funds. At the time, the signatories on the account were decided to be the Treasurer and President, which I believe at the time were myself and Jim. The President was on the account for oversight purposes and to have access to the account if the Treasurer was unable to withdraw needed funds. After Jim abdicated his throne, Corey became the club President for a period of time and replaced Jim on the account. After Corey resigned as President, it was decided at club meetings that the new President (I forget if this was Kevin or Shea at this point), didn't especially want to sign onto the bank account and that it was fine for the Treasurer to manage the funds. Corey didn't sign off the account, but didn't have online banking access. In addition, I trusted Corey and we had a good working relationship at that point in time so I didn't consider it a priority to remove him from the account.

Flash forward to 2016, the last President of the Warhamsters was no longer active and it was decided by a vote of club members present at a Tuesday night session that we needed to make a leadership change. Here is the post I made back then in this thread to explain what happened:

Quote

In the past it was always the acting President's responsibility to hold quarterly meetings, one of which a year would be to elect a new President. Shea has been busy outside of the club so this hasn't been done (which is totally fine, no insult to Shea, RL takes priority over gaming). The next step after this would be for our Vice President to step in and enact meetings, but Joey has also been fairly busy with RL stuff and also is a bit of an anarchist so elections were never held.

With upcoming events needing to be organized and several new people coming down to the game store, it was suggested that we needed someone to take on the job of organizing these things and by merit of being the most willing to take on work, I got nominated for the job. At this time, the current structure of the "leadership council" that we've had in the past has been set aside to facilitate the needs of the club and as all of the active members of said council agreed to this change, a quorum of Warhamsters proposed and voted on this change, and it seems like a generally good idea, the change has taken place. 

Discussion was held in the above linked thread for anyone needing more info on what happened or to voice dissenting opinions. My take on the situation was that the club needed someone willing to step up to the plate and I was willing to help out. Since this time, I have taken a fairly passive role as President and the primary duties I have executed have been to organize our yearly gift exchange and to facilitate some communication when some social issues arose between club members (details of which I won't be going into here). There have been no "big decisions" going on behind closed doors during my time accepting Presidential duties and honestly due to the decline of the Games Workshop games that formerly united us, there hasn't been a lot going on at all. That leads us to the current events.

 

Current Events
Earlier this year WECU changed their online banking system around to a model where signatories on Business/Club accounts no longer need login credentials to access the funds and instead the account is simply listed with an idividual's personal accounts after logging in with their personal login info. At the time this change occurred, I had completely forgotten that Corey was still a signer on the Warhamsters account as I had been managing the funds alone for some time and there had been very little activity over that time period.

On May 20th, I noticed $250 had been withdrawn from the account with the narration "Nik Gipe Commission". After confirming that the activity wasn't conducted through the Warhamsters Paypal, to which Jim and I had shared login info, I remembered that Corey was still a signatory to the account. I called WECU to confirm and texted Corey that evening, to which I never received a reply. I gave it a few days, but noticed on May 23rd that the remaining funds had been transferred out with the narration "New banner down payment". At this point, I called Corey and left him a voice mail. On the 24th, I sent a message through the forums and received a reply in which Corey explained essentially what Kevin had said. I told Corey that the funds needed to be returned immediately, to which I received no reply. I was later contacted by Kevin and I suggested that he make this thread to get the issue out in the open, which brings us to today.

 

My Stance
The funds need to be returned. If people felt that the money needed to be used, there was nothing stopping the concerned parties from posting a thread in these forums and opening discussion to the club, but instead it was decided to take the money without asking and spend it as they saw fit. Leaving Corey on the account after his term as President ended was my failure and I take responsibility for that, but I chose to trust in his integrity and never imagined that something like this would happen.

Sorry for the giant wall of text, but I am aiming for transparency and clarity here. Thanks all.

[Munkie]

6 hours ago, smashthedean said:

Flash forward to 2016, the last President of the Warhamsters was no longer active and it was decided by a vote of club members present at a Tuesday night session that we needed to make a leadership change.

I appreciate your post and agree with the majority of it, but the above portion is barely true. There were 10 people sitting around a table at New York Pizza after game night. Exactly 5 were made aware of the conversation (myself included), 4 particpated (myself not included). Joey, the acting president, was not informed of the "vote" to unseat and replace him. Someone sitting at the far end of the table noticed the raised hands and asked, "wait, what's happening?" We were informed Kacy had been elected, and then someone awkwardly suggested a 2nd vote (this time everyone at the table was allowed to participate) to legitimize the first. There were several abstentions, and a few votes are, and that was that.

All that the situation would've required is someone, anyone to call a club vote. But it was reasoned that only the president could do so. Instead, the prudent thing to do was cut anyone who might disagree out of the decision and permanently change the organization of the club on the whim of a few.

It wasn't a real vote. A fraction of the club was even present to do anything. A smaller fraction still, were aware of what was happening. It was a mockery of our usual process. Nobody was pretending votes mattered anymore. Not the people deciding the direction of the club, and not the people being told what direction that was. 

I'm not implying you've done a bad job, but you weren't elected, you were chosen. 

[Guest OBGYN]

so steal,

Ignore this shady [big bad swear word]

8 hours ago, smashthedean said:

Current Events
Earlier this year WECU changed their online banking system around to a model where signatories on Business/Club accounts no longer need login credentials to access the funds and instead the account is simply listed with an idividual's personal accounts after logging in with their personal login info. At the time this change occurred, I had completely forgotten that Corey was still a signer on the Warhamsters account as I had been managing the funds alone for some time and there had been very little activity over that time period.

On May 20th, I noticed $250 had been withdrawn from the account with the narration "Nik Gipe Commission". After confirming that the activity wasn't conducted through the Warhamsters Paypal, to which Jim and I had shared login info, I remembered that Corey was still a signatory to the account. I called WECU to confirm and texted Corey that evening, to which I never received a reply. I gave it a few days, but noticed on May 23rd that the remaining funds had been transferred out with the narration "New banner down payment". At this point, I called Corey and left him a voice mail. On the 24th, I sent a message through the forums and received a reply in which Corey explained essentially what Kevin had said. I told Corey that the funds needed to be returned immediately, to which I received no reply. I was later contacted by Kevin and I suggested that he make this thread to get the issue out in the open, which brings us to today.

and go one to defend theft with this whiney excuse:

1 hour ago, Munkie said:

I appreciate your post and agree with the majority of it, but the above portion is barely true. There were 10 people sitting around a table at New York Pizza after game night. Exactly 5 were made aware of the conversation (myself included), 4 particpated (myself not included). Joey, the acting president, was not informed of the "vote" to unseat and replace him. Someone sitting at the far end of the table noticed the raised hands and asked, "wait, what's happening?" We were informed Kacy had been elected, and then someone awkwardly suggested a 2nd vote (this time everyone at the table was allowed to participate) to legitimize the first. There were several abstentions, and a few votes are, and that was that.

All that the situation would've required is someone, anyone to call a club vote. But it was reasoned that only the president could do so. Instead, the prudent thing to do was cut anyone who might disagree out of the decision and permanently change the organization of the club on the whim of a few.

It wasn't a real vote. A fraction of the club was even present to do anything. A smaller fraction still, were aware of what was happening. It was a mockery of our usual process. Nobody was pretending votes mattered anymore. Not the people deciding the direction of the club, and not the people being told what direction that was. 

I'm not implying you've done a bad job, but you weren't elected, you were chosen. 

'Cause people didn't do things the way I wanted them too, it's ok to steal'

[Koyote]

Munkie, did you spend the money to benefit the club as a whole or purely for yourself and few select members?

I ask because if its the former, then we should stop throwing around the terms 'theft' and 'steal'.  If Munkie's intent was not criminal, then it's unfair to label his actions as such.  We should also hold off on that ad hominem attacks until all of facts are known.

From what I've read thus far, it sound like the funds were used without permission and thus should be returned, along with an apology.  Also, Munkie should provide the club's leadership with a itemized lists of the items purchased with the club's money.   A list that accounts for every penny spent.

Lastly, I recommend that the club's leadership look at what Munkie purchased with the funds, and if they like it, the club should consider using some of its funds to buy them from Munkie.   And since Munkie is very sorry for what he did and wants to set thing right, Munkie should consider selling those things to the club at a discount.  Munkie and the club leadership can negotiate the price, offline.

 

[JMGraham]

Blech. This whole business kind of makes me sick. I’m still not clear on the details of what happened. Since I haven’t heard Corey’s side of things, I have to go with what I’ve heard. Apologies if I’m making assumptions here. It sounds like Corey was accidentally left on a signatory to the Warhamster WECU account, and WECU policies changed to make it easier for signatories to access money in group accounts. Then Corey emptied out the bank account to the tune of close to $400 to commission artwork and print a banner and stickers? It sounds like there wasn’t any communication with others about whether it was OK to do this, but I’m not sure. I don’t know if it was Corey’s decision alone or Kevin and Corey’s decision.

I totally get the desire to spend club funds on tournament swag. In the past, teams have usually footed their own bill for swag, but whatever. The way this happened (the way it seems to have happened?) feels really gross. Those funds were generated by individuals who gave generously of their time and energy to try and contribute to the Bellingham wargaming community. Kevin, I hear your disillusionment (and assume that it’s echoed by Corey?), but I don’t think any amount of dissatisfaction entitles you to those funds. Certainly not without putting it forward to others before withdrawing the money. The fact that Corey (Kevin?) feels entitled to unilaterally (bilaterally?) take that money is deeply disturbing to me.

If we were looking for a way to spend club funds, there are a lot more things I’d prefer to spend them on. There have been plenty of regular Warhamster-led events over the past couple of years that would deserve financial support. Sherbert’s old Endless Highways campaign. Koyote’s TNT and Mordheim campaigns. Joey’s Infinity escalation league. I reckon some extra funds for terrain, swag, giveaways, or the like for those events would be appreciated, and would benefit the larger Bellingham gaming community.

Corey and Kevin, the right thing to do here would be to return the money. If you agree that you did the wrong thing, make it right. In regards to a path forward, what Koyote posted as I typed this makes a lot of sense to me.

[intrizic]

These actions here are VERY close to how hackers operate:

12 hours ago, smashthedean said:

Current Events
Earlier this year WECU changed their online banking system around to a model where signatories on Business/Club accounts no longer need login credentials to access the funds and instead the account is simply listed with an idividual's personal accounts after logging in with their personal login info. At the time this change occurred, I had completely forgotten that Corey was still a signer on the Warhamsters account as I had been managing the funds alone for some time and there had been very little activity over that time period.

On May 20th, I noticed $250 had been withdrawn from the account with the narration "Nik Gipe Commission". After confirming that the activity wasn't conducted through the Warhamsters Paypal, to which Jim and I had shared login info, I remembered that Corey was still a signatory to the account. I called WECU to confirm and texted Corey that evening, to which I never received a reply. I gave it a few days, but noticed on May 23rd that the remaining funds had been transferred out with the narration "New banner down payment". At this point, I called Corey and left him a voice mail. On the 24th, I sent a message through the forums and received a reply in which Corey explained essentially what Kevin had said. I told Corey that the funds needed to be returned immediately, to which I received no reply. I was later contacted by Kevin and I suggested that he make this thread to get the issue out in the open, which brings us to today.

A person taking advantage of a change or weakness in a system to gain unauthorized access to resources.

Now I understand that Kevin is a likeable guy, and I fully agree that the telling of this tale incomplete but from what has been given here, that's theft.  And why everyone involved has that 'gross' feeling is because while hoping for a high road this was done in a [big bad swear word]ty shady way that really doesn't leave a lot of room for explanations.

 

I notice that Corey continues to hide behind Kevin. 

 

***Edit: I'm REALLY curious Kevin, what did Jason and Shea think of this pro move?

[smashthedean]

@Munkie Re: Events in 2016

I appreciate your perspective on how it went down and will admit that I was pretty oblivious to anyone having a problem with the situation at the time (the Irish Death could have helped that part), but it's been 3 years and no one has cared enough to say anything since. Given the loose structure of our club in modern times, a loose structure of leadership has worked out pretty well until now. 

Unfortunately, changes of leadership 3 years ago and dissatisfaction with the club as a structure don't really justify the current situation and are an entirely separate issue. We can start a separate thread to discuss those issues, but we really need to talk about the $371.84 in question. 

I'm not going to use the word theft because I do believe that you guys thought that you were doing what was best for the club as you understood it to exist. The problem is that the club is more than 4 people, even if those 4 people are the only ones currently going to events. 

[VonVilkee]

I have been on the account and as I am a computer hater I do most banking in person. There were instances in the past before the banking switch where I was advised of the account and its standing. This course of action had been in process prior to the switch. The switch just allowed me to note it easier with what I was doing as I did it.

 

As stated above I have far too many emotions to convey in text.

[Munkie]

We're working on compiling an itemized list of expenses. Waiting on the artist for the particulars, but we'll keep you updated.

[Munkie]

9 hours ago, JMGraham said:

Those funds were generated by individuals who gave generously of their time and energy to try and contribute to the Bellingham wargaming community. Kevin, I hear your disillusionment (and assume that it’s echoed by Corey?), but I don’t think any amount of dissatisfaction entitles you to those funds. 

The Wilke's were among those donating their time to help manage those events. Sarah did data entry so as to allow you to play, Jim. Was there no value for their time? No value in having an opportunity to enjoy the fruits of your labor?

Corey and I were back to back presidents. Under our supervision, club membership reached an all time high. We busted our asses convincing, motivating, and social networking the club into a massive thing. We sent throngs of Hamsters to the OFCC, and some of us went to Da Momma's Boyz Brawls and Wetcoast GT. Game nights were packed. There has never been a larger, more successful league in club history than the the 40k escalation league Jason and I ran. There were 32 people there the first night. We ran out of tables and I had to turn people away. When we'd call a vote, we could bring in 20-30 heads, hearts, and hands.

We built this into the biggest, brightest, most positive, active, well-traveled, and thriving community it has ever been. Have y'all forgotten about that, or does it just not matter?

Corey and I have spent a decade building, maintaining, and continue to maintain relationships all throught the PNW. And we'd very much like to continue to do so. We did this because want to rebuild the community that shrank to a husk because of political infighting and mischief. 

9 hours ago, smashthedean said:

The problem is that the club is more than 4 people, 

The problem is, that's exactly the size of the "club". You, Jim, Brad, Shaun (apologies if misspelled). Those are the only four people I know who seem even somewhat invested in maintaining the political and bureaucratic facade. Like you said, nobody cared enough to say anything, because nobody else cares. Nobody else is posting in this thread. Just you 4. The entire voting body of the club. 

The rest of us just want to play games. 

 

Now then.

 

Corey and I understand we messed up the handling of this and we do want to make it right. We have ideas for compromises that I'd like to work toward if you'll let me.

But to do that, I going to need people to take a bit of a step back.

First, I can't be getting emails threatening an ongoing smear campaign unless I publicly shame Corey.

Second, I cant have people acting like this is was some nefarious, sneak-theivery. I understand the initial shock, but I've been nothing but open, honest,  calm and rational.

 

Corey's name has been on the account because he used to be president finishing (finishing his last term when we still gamed at Eagles). Since then, we brought it up anually when we voted on new leadership. We always decided it was too much work, and tabled it. Acting like it was something that slipped through the cracks of our otherwise airtight process is absurd. 

 

This account isn't just "other people's money". It was built off the sweat of our backs too, with at least a decade each of club involvement in leadership, community building, and networking. We deserve to be treated with a little dignity.

Cool?

Okay.

We feel it's fair for us to return the $250 for the artist's fee (again, itemized incoming). I've heard objections, and we didn't solicit the opinions of the wider community who may have interest in the logo, even if not participating in events. That's a fair point and a total lack of consideration on our part.

I hear @Koyote's proposal of selling merch at a discount, but I'll do you one better. After the OFCC, we will turn the remainder of the stickers over to club control. 

What you guys decide you want to do with them afterwards, vote away. I bet people could have used that money for campaigns, leagues, demo days, and tournaments. I just wonder how many of them even knew there was an account...

Or who to talk to access it...

Or wanted to bother wake the sleeping bureaucracy to figure it out...

If hoarding cash and realizing too late what you could have spent it on while more and more people forget it exists is the plan going forward, just as it has been for the past few years, then maybe a club isn't quite as essential as you think.

 

 

We want a community, not a club.

 

 

 

[VonVilkee]

Kevin I feel extremely touched. It has been many years that I followed the status quo each time convincing myself that the club was doing well. However once I stepped back I found the name I was proud to wear besmirched by exclusivity, cronies and actively driving people away without a way to crack back in. I was ignored and tabled just like before. I decided to fight back. Before doing anything drastic I took a small team to the ofcc we won the Marshal Johnson again. It reminded me that the name was something to fight for to drive envy for once again.

 

Initial spending of the money rules required multiple acceptance of the leadership with only one member in leadership there was no club approved way there without getting a full thing running again. I talked to Kevin to find out if there was enough left to rally. I was not interested in cow tailing to a hobby killer and a small group who has bad street cred. Yet even with this I tried multiple times to ask the real power for existing logos. And was shined on and basically ignored. The final time I asked I was also asked to return the club banner after this ofcc.

 

You wanted my side there you go. I have let Kevin drive this as I had no interest in dealing with you bullies again however Kevin wanted to mend bridges and for him I am willing to do what ever he agrees to.

 

Jim said blech to this I say blech to the last 4 years.

[Koyote]

10 hours ago, Munkie said:

The problem is, that's exactly the size of the "club". You, Jim, Brad, Shaun (apologies if misspelled). Those are the only four people I know who seem even somewhat invested in maintaining the political and bureaucratic facade. Like you said, nobody cared enough to say anything, because nobody else cares. Nobody else is posting in this thread. Just you 4. The entire voting body of the club. 

I have no interest in playing politics or defending the club’s bureaucracy.  I posted what I posted because I felt that people were jumping to conclusions and treating you two unfairly. My intention was to create a roadmap for resolving the matter fairly and in a manner that allows you to show some contrition. 

 

@VonVilkee: Which am I, a crony, a hobby killer, or a bully? Hmm? I suppose it’s possible that I’m all three?

[Munkie]

27 minutes ago, Koyote said:

I have no interest in playing politics or defending the club’s bureaucracy.  I posted what I posted because I felt that people were jumping to conclusions and treating you two unfairly. My intention was to create a roadmap for resolving the matter fairly and in a manner that allows you to show some contrition. 

I appreciate that. That's how I took your response as well. Our history is fraught with drama, and unfortunately you just got caught up in it. You had no idea what you were participating in that night, you just happened to be within hushed tone range. 

But it simply isn't a coincidence that the same 4 people who participated in the "vote" to install Kacy permanently (not really, but really) are the same 4 people voting what we should do now.

There are 4 people who care enough to participate anymore. Everyone else has been burned directly by our endless and pointless politicking or, just gotten sick of watching it from afar.

Who's in charge of whom and who has the authority to do what has been tearing the club apart for years. But rather than admit that THAT'S the issue, the position of those actually in charge is that the problem lies with everyone who's not on board with our political structure.

And now there's almost nobody on board with it. The time has long since passed to come to terms with that. 

 

Corey and I should've respected the community. That's what we'd like to atone for. However, there's absolutely no reason, whatsoever, to respect the authority of "club leadership" as has been suggested numerous times throughout this thread. 

"Hey, we held a vote among only ourselves to put ourselves in power. You didn't launch a coup on our coup, therefore we need to be respected" is a silly stance.

If y'all want to vote on new, legitimate leadership positions, go for it. I just can't imagine who would have any interest in stepping up or participating in voting at this point. With a voting base of 4, and 4 official, non-made-up out of nowhere positions, elections could get interesting. Or we could admit they're completely unnecessary. 

That money has sat, buried in the back yard for years and years while the club collapsed in on itself and the community withered and died. We'll put it back. I just think it could be used for more than reminiscing about the good ol' days when we used to do stuff.

[VonVilkee]

1 hour ago, Koyote said:

 

@VonVilkee: Which am I, a crony, a hobby killer, or a bully? Hmm? I suppose it’s possible that I’m all three?

Sorry I don't see you as part of that and forgot Kevin looped you into the others.

[Fix]

Kevin,

I gotta say, you kinda had me, but this is all a bit overwrought.  I don't particularly care whether there becomes a new club structure to facilitate the direction of those funds.  I'm perfectly fine just being a group of people who plays games, same as you said.  I'm not "voting" on what you do now.  I'm just saying I'm sad you didn't feel comfortable coming to us to say you had a good idea of what to do with it in the first place and overpaid on what is, IMO, a wreck of a logo.  I get that Corey didn't get answers to his queries, but I didn't see a thread here looking for the assets, and I don't know who else he asked.  Like I've already shown you, I have some of that stuff and if asked, I'd have handed it over, too.

I told you the other night I was sorry that I didn't realize there was any lingering resentment over this "coup" thing a few years ago.  You assured me that there wasn't, but man this doesn't feel like that.  We were 18 months out of the club having done anything at all official, we were trying to get some new shirts out, drum up a little interest with all the new players with all the new games, kinda reconsolidate, and we were having a bit of a laugh.  Hell, at the time Corey said he thought it was a great idea.  And again, I'm sorry that it bothered you so much.  I wish you had said something at the bar, that night in the thread about it, or at any point in the intervening two and a half years.  I seriously wish I could have apologized to you sooner if I'd realized how much it bothered you, but I didn't.

 

10 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

Sorry I don't see you as part of that and forgot Kevin looped you into the others.

And which am I?

[intrizic]

I was told that it's in poor taste to call myself a bully, I apologies to everyone, and change it in the hopes of reconciliation.

[Koyote]

Wait.  Hold on.  Are you saying that the vote that made me a Hamster was invalid?

First you call me a crony, a hobby killer, and a bully, and then you tell me that I'm not even a Hamster???

Oh boy, you guys play rough up here.  And I thought gamer drama in Seattle was bad. 

Since that's the way it's going to be, I am going to form my own gaming club.  I'll call it the Bellingham War Gerbils.  And we won't be Richard Gere/Lemmiwink kind of gerbils.  Oh no.  We'll be the tough sort of gerbils that don't take no guff from anyone.  And our logo will be a cartoon gerbil armed with a .45, kicking a cartoon hamster in the balls.  That'll teach you to toy with my emotions.

 

 

 

[Munkie]

1 hour ago, Fix said:

I gotta say, you kinda had me, but this is all a bit overwrought.

I know. I'm always way too wordy and soapboxy. 

1 hour ago, Fix said:

I told you the other night I was sorry that I didn't realize there was any lingering resentment over this "coup" thing a few years ago.  You assured me that there wasn't, but man this doesn't feel like that.  We were 18 months out of the club having done anything at all official, we were trying to get some new shirts out, drum up a little interest with all the new players with all the new games, kinda reconsolidate, and we were having a bit of a laugh.  Hell, at the time Corey said he thought it was a great idea.  And again, I'm sorry that it bothered you so much.  I wish you had said something at the bar, that night in the thread about it, or at any point in the intervening two and a half years.  I seriously wish I could have apologized to you sooner if I'd realized how much it bothered you, but I didn't.

It didn't really bother me that much. The work I did defining the roles and responsibilities was already lost to the churn of the subforum. Them getting tossed out and replaced on whim seemed imprudent, and the solution unwise for club health. But I was already checked out by then, so I don't have any lingering resentment.

Myself and others were just done voting and nobody noticed because there's been nothing to vote about since. There's been no meetings because we don't have anything to meet about. We no longer have large numbers of cats to herd. 

The campaigns and leagues being run are being run by individuals stepping up and taking initiative. The club, as it stands, has contributed nothing to those efforts. 

So what, other than safeguard the money that we never could decide how to spend even when we were a functioning club 4+ years ago, is the point of it?

[VonVilkee]

2 hours ago, Fix said:

 

And which am I?

Well that is a good question and while I had my opinion it is changing in light of this discussion. I'm sorry my perception left me feeling on the outside without a way back in.

 

This whole thing is very much turning it around, I'll take the lesson of attempting compromise instead of throwing the first punch to heart. I acted immaturely based on my experiences with bullies in the past and I acted rashly without realizing the full extent of my swing.

[smashthedean]

I appreciate that this has been a learning experience for all involved and am glad the money is being returned. If people want to talk about what to do with the money going forward, I'm open to that discussion.

My stance has always been that it's better to have money for when we need it than to spend it and have it gone. In the past whenever a large chunk of the money has been spent, it's been on a shirt drive or large event that has returned more money back to the club than was taken out and I'd like if that were the tradition carried forward. We haven't had a lot of things to spend the money on lately because the club has been in something of a holding pattern with no large group of folks playing the same games and everyone just showing up to Tuesday nights more casually. I don't necessarily see this as an problem, just a natural evolutionary state of the club and the community. 

I don't think that we need to spend money just because we have money. I don't think that we should spend the money in a way that will zero out the fund with no returns. I also don't think that I have the authority to unilaterally decide these things just because I have a title of Treasurer, President, Temperor, Dicktator, or whatever I'm actually called right now.

I serve the club by taking on responsibility; it isn't a power thing or a status symbol, it's work and it's drama and I do it because I care about the club and the community that we all share. I acknowledge and appreciate the work that Jim, Corey, Kevin, Shea, Joey, Loren, and anyone else who I'm forgetting (sorry) has put into the club by serving in leadership positions.

My role within the club is not to make decisions about what we should do, it's to uphold decisions we've already made and to enact decisions that we make going forward by the club as a whole. If the whole club wants to clear out the account and buy a giant hamster shaped cake, I'll do it - but we need consensus and communication all the way down the line from the initial decision to the flavor of the cake, the filling, toppings, where to buy the cake, and everything included with the deal right down to making sure that everyone gets a piece in the end. 

 

[generalripphook]

I would like to apologize, I abandoned my role as secretary in 2015, and look whats happened since.