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Brother Glacius

Are there still events where you bring one force org chart?

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I am old. Apparently. Because I basically want to play 40K with 1-3 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 Elites, 0-3 Fast Attacks, and 0-3 Heavy Supports. I really do try to read the various posts about people's armies...but I get completely lost with all the new combos of detachments and how that makes certain CPs and then my head explodes. So seeing how I'm not ready to enter that world, are there any events out there that cater to the older, simpler 40K of days gone by?

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Battalions are the old Force Org, basically.

However, splitting up your forces into more Battalions gives you added Command Points.  Same force org, just up to three of them.

And...if you don't have enough for an ENTIRE batallion, you can use some of the other Detachments instead.  They just dont reward you as heavily for doing it with command points.

And that's pretty much all there IS to know.

One added factoid:  since you can only take 3 of any one unit, it does encourage people to use the Batallions as much as possible.  Brigades are for people who really wanna go all out on variety.

The Ambassadorial Grand Tournament is about the best option for people who want less craziness in their 40K.  The missions are specifically designed to encourage unit variety and put less emphasis on the craziness of list building. 

However given how nigh impossible it is for some armies like Grey Knights and Imperial KNights to make a Brigade (an army with 3 HQ's, 6 troops and a MINIMUM of 3 of every other slot) which would be very "old school" 40K, making a Brigade a requirement, as I would love to have done, doesn't really work.  But in that GT, we do require a Battalion.

My encouragement would be to consider that once the list is made, its not like you have to keep obsessing over it right?  So make one that works and get help on it.  Once it's done all there is to worry about is playing.  

Early on there were a few tournaments that were termed "OldHammer events" and those were fun.

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1 hour ago, Torg said:

hmmmm you could do an Old School event... create - promote and organize the thing.  I would be interested.

 

-d

Yeah I mean...  its work, but that would be a solution for sure.

People are quick to be critical,slow to be thankful and slower still to run events instead of play in them.  But T.O.'s make the world go round and if its even within a reasonable distance, I'd help promote it.  I don't mind comp restrictions.  

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7 hours ago, Brother Glacius said:

I am old. Apparently. Because I basically want to play 40K with 1-3 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 Elites, 0-3 Fast Attacks, and 0-3 Heavy Supports. I really do try to read the various posts about people's armies...but I get completely lost with all the new combos of detachments and how that makes certain CPs and then my head explodes. So seeing how I'm not ready to enter that world, are there any events out there that cater to the older, simpler 40K of days gone by?

Old skool was 1-2 HQ. In 5th they added a 0-1 fortification slot and in 6th they added a 0-1 lord of war slot. 

As for your question, the challenge is that GW doesn't really design the books to run like that anymore. It would work for some armies, but not for others. Imperial Guard, for example, lost their platoon rule and take each platoon squad as a seperate slot. 

Would be alot easier to just ban relics, warlord traits, command points, and remove the battleforged detachment bonus rules (like chapter traits). Not a popular option, but would certainly cut down on combo options. And, at least theoretically, the GW points for each unit doesn't take into account all these freebie bonus rules. 

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Though if you want really simple, I picked up a fresh 3rd edition 40k rulebook a while back. All the army rules are in the back of the book. Simple and self contained. Would just need to locate my scatter die and some templates...

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9 hours ago, Brother Glacius said:

I am old. Apparently. Because I basically want to play 40K with 1-3 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 Elites, 0-3 Fast Attacks, and 0-3 Heavy Supports. I really do try to read the various posts about people's armies...but I get completely lost with all the new combos of detachments and how that makes certain CPs and then my head explodes. So seeing how I'm not ready to enter that world, are there any events out there that cater to the older, simpler 40K of days gone by?

AMEN!!!

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There just seems to be a whole new layer of stuff I have to account for now. The sheer number of armies and what they can do is pretty daunting already. Units carry the special rules as opposed to a centralized list of them. With CPs, there's a whole library of cards that I feel like I have to know and plan for. I'm sure, most of the time, it isn't a big deal. But I've had experiences where the unknown completely ruins the game to put it bluntly. It goes from a fun contest to an exercise in removing models. That's probably why I have been playing more Bolt Action lately. The expectations of capabilities is fairly set. With 40K, I'm concerned with my overall lack of knowledge about today's landscape. 

When it comes right down to it, if I have a choice between playing something I know and something I don't....well I pick what I know. Just a shame I have so many armies for a game I don't.

😟

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1 hour ago, Brother Glacius said:

There just seems to be a whole new layer of stuff I have to account for now. The sheer number of armies and what they can do is pretty daunting already. Units carry the special rules as opposed to a centralized list of them. With CPs, there's a whole library of cards that I feel like I have to know and plan for. I'm sure, most of the time, it isn't a big deal. But I've had experiences where the unknown completely ruins the game to put it bluntly. It goes from a fun contest to an exercise in removing models. That's probably why I have been playing more Bolt Action lately. The expectations of capabilities is fairly set. With 40K, I'm concerned with my overall lack of knowledge about today's landscape. 

When it comes right down to it, if I have a choice between playing something I know and something I don't....well I pick what I know. Just a shame I have so many armies for a game I don't.

😟

I fundementally agree with you on this point.  I've been struggling for 3 days to work out my OFCC list... just too many choices / options for me to weed through.  I have long since stopped caring about knowing everything about other armies back maybe 2-3 OFCC's ago lol.  I just plan for my army and lots of contingencies.  Knowing that sometimes I will be caught unprepared ... and probably get killed lol. 

I'd rather play some of the other games I have gangs and factions for - but sometimes it is really just hard to find opponents.  I have been showing the young folks in my family how to play some mini games.  Trying to get them hooked on the hobby  - and not just 40k.  Typically smaller skirmish games they have an easier time grasping (Dark-Age and more of a favorite - Arena Rex)

-d

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It certainly helps to know what everyone else's army does but I am not sure it is critical to have a good time because frankly, when the moment comes for them to do that thing that you didn't know they could do, it's not like you could have stopped it 90% of the time.  RARELY is there a situation where you can say "Oh well if I had KNOWN you were going to do Stratagem X, I would have done Z" when it comes to Stratagems. 

I actually was trying to think of an example where this would be true.  One example that came to me was that the Imperial Guard have one called "Crush Them" which allows a tank to hit on 2's in melee, which is normally pretty much NOT a big deal except when you consider a Baneblade variant which is a brute in close combat when you do that.  THEN suddenly it makes that Baneblade a LOT more dangerous than you thought it was going to be and you might not have charged it.  Outside of that, I really wasn't able to think of any on short notice.  If you're going in and going in hot, the other guy is there to fight too!

My point is that if you know your own army pretty well, it should be enough to get you through most battles with a minimum of ""I would have done something different" coming up.  Also it's my humble opinion that learning the game is half the fun.  Seeing what other armies will do or can do is part of the experience.  It gives you ideas, helps you morph your list over time and so on.

There's a positive to the learning curve.

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1 hour ago, Torg said:

I fundementally agree with you on this point.  I've been struggling for 3 days to work out my OFCC list... just too many choices / options for me to weed through.  I have long since stopped caring about knowing everything about other armies back maybe 2-3 OFCC's ago lol.  I just plan for my army and lots of contingencies.  Knowing that sometimes I will be caught unprepared ... and probably get killed lol. 

I really think that attitude really is the best way to approach 40k unless you're practicing for a high level tournament. You can't know everything that's in "the field" so don't try to. A rough idea of their capabilities, and very good grasp of your own will see you do just fine.

I always ask my opponent before games what stratagems I really need to be aware of. Opponents know what their plan is and what stratagems they're likely to use. After they tell me what I need to know, I'll tell them what they should be aware of in my stratagem deck too. If your opponent is honest, it'll avoid those nasty gotcha moments that can happen to the unaware.

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8 minutes ago, Munkie said:

I always ask my opponent before games what stratagems I really need to be aware of. Opponents know what their plan is and what stratagems they're likely to use. After they tell me what I need to know, I'll tell them what they should be aware of in my stratagem deck too. If your opponent is honest, it'll avoid those nasty gotcha moments that can happen to the unaware.

I typically run through my list with my opponent - explaining a few basics of what things can do what and pointing out what that model / mini is.  I play eldar and harlequins and sometimes they are hard to pick out particular minis that do that thing.  I also run through the weapons / wraith guard variants ... what a wraithseer can do... psychic powers as well.  

Stratagems is a good thing to add to my list of things to discuss.  That is a good point!

After I run through my junk... and after looking through my opponents list and army - I ask questions about things in much the same vein that I went over my stuff.  I find that if I do mine first as part of my normal set up - it invites my opponent to reciprocate.

 

-d

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