Adeptus Primaris

[Munkie]

19 hours ago, WestRider said:

Nope, no special disembarkation rules for them. Actually, Land Raiders really kind of suck in 8th, because they need to be making use of both their transport capacity and their firepower to be worth their cost, 

To be fair, Landraiders have been bad in every edition for exactly the above reason. They're just worse now because they lost their immunity to everything str 7 and lower.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I've only ran them with 5th Ed Black Templar, so I loved the hell outta my 'raiders.

[Brandon]

Quote

Games Workshop revenue smashes £250m in “best year” yet

https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2019/07/games-workshop-revenue-smashes-250m-best-year-yet/

[WestRider]

2 hours ago, Munkie said:

To be fair, Landraiders have been bad in every edition for exactly the above reason. They're just worse now because they lost their immunity to everything str 7 and lower.

IIRC they were good for a while at the start of 5th, before the meta adapted to the new Vehicle Damage Table and it turned into the Melta Everywhere Edition. That isn't really the same, tho. I've heard that they were good in 2nd, but don't know for sure since I never saw one, let alone played with or against one, until the new kit came out in 3rd.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Munkie said:

To be fair, Landraiders have been bad in every edition for exactly the above reason. They're just worse now because they lost their immunity to everything str 7 and lower.

Yes and no.

Loss of immunity sucks. But unless you have TAU or one of the other armies with S5+ base weapons, the 6s to wound is still a pretty substantial barrier for small arms. And that 2+ save is no joke (and 1+ in cover).

On the other hand, the 7e weapons that would auto-kill a land raider, can't anymore. No more lost LRs from a single lascannon or meltagun. Even with perfect die rolling, they still need to wound with 3 melta guns to kill a land raider in 8e, while in 7e it would die in the first shot. And the Destroyer weapons are gone. And most of the EMP weapons are now once per phase stratagems. And the psychic powers no longer have the option to slay tanks in a single hit.

The loss of immunity does suck, but they haven't lost durability, it just got balanced better between small arm and anti-tank resistances.

In 8e, the problem with LRs is that GW overrates the cost of being a transport. It's not just LRs, ALL 8e transports are really expensive. And then the total cost of LRs is too comparable to Knights, which is it's own problem.

[Guest]

And then, of course, there's the primaris problem, which is the biggest barrier for Loyalist LRs in 8e.

Not being able to transport Primaris marines, and furthermore, the primaris Land Raider equivalent being a dedicated transport while the core LR is a heavy slot - yeah, GW is definitely screwing over the loyalist Land Raiders intentionally in 8e.

Paying extra to be a transport that doesn't transport everything, yeah, GW clearly doesn't want love directed at the land raider.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Sons of the Great Khan

Your quarry awaits, proud scion of Chogoris. Ride the plain, bear the fury of the storm, give chase to your foes and put them to rout. Today, we take a look at the new White Scars Codex Supplement – let the hunt begin!

Who Are They?

Since the days of the Great Crusade, the White Scars have been the Emperor’s outriders and huntsmen, placing enormous importance on lightning assaults. With the new White Scars releases, you’ll be able to take in the thrill of the chase and the joy of the final kill.

On the Battlefield

 

This is the definitive guide to the White Scars Chapter, packed with their history, culture and strategic organisation, along with bloody accounts of their glorious hunts across the stars. It features datasheets for units unique to the White Scars – a Khan on a bike and the Master of the Hunt, Kor’sarro Khan – and Chapter-specific rules for the White Scars and their successors.

First up is a new rule that is ideal if you need to make a devastating charge – it’s called, appropriately enough, Devastating Charge! The Assault Doctrine already improves the Armour Penetration of Pistols and melee weapons by 1, and when it’s combined with this +1 Damage, you’ll absolutely annihilate even the most durable enemy units.

There are six Warlord Traits, distinct to the White Scars, that allow you to personalise the leader of your hunt. The Khans of the Chapter take great pride in slaying the Emperor’s foes, and Trophy Taker rewards you for taking down the most dangerous of prey. The only worry is whether you’ll run out of enemy Characters or space to display their heads first!

The Codex Supplement also contains a brand-new psychic discipline for the White Scars – the Stormspeaking discipline. White Scars Librarians, also known as Stormseers, are able to control the very elements themselves, using Lightning Call to bring down devastation from the skies and rack up the mortal wounds on an enemy unit. They’ll need more than an umbrella to survive this storm!

The vaults of Quan Zhou, the fortress-monastery of the White Scars, are filled with beautifully crafted weapons and equipment. This is represented by a series of unique Chapter relics, which can only be taken by the White Scars, and special-issue wargear, which can also be taken by successor Chapters. Make it easier to harness the power of the elements, so that you can strike down your foes, by equipping your Librarian with the Mantle of the Stormseeker, which makes it easier to manifest psychic powers.

The book also contains a suite of Stratagems that reflect how the White Scars wage war. For example, their skill as riders is expressed by Born in the Saddle.* Along with the White Scars Chapter Tactic, this means a Biker unit can advance, shoot and charge in the same turn – a perfect example of the lightning-fast warfare that the Chapter is famous for.

This is just a taste of what’s in the Codex Supplement – it’s packed with everything you need to use an army of White Scars or their successor Chapters. Whether you’re a long-time fan or new to the hunt, you will cherish this book as much as a White Scar cherishes the open plain, the wind on their face and a blade in their hand.

Kor’sarro Khan

Captain of the third company, Kor’sarro Khan is known as the Master of the Hunt. This is no mere honorific, for he is tasked with tracking down those enemies who have escaped the vengeance of the White Scars. Over the years, he has brought the heads of scores of such foes back to Chogoris. Having seen the new Primaris Marines in action, he saw a chance to become an even deadlier hunter and so he demanded the opportunity to cross the Rubicon Primaris himself. 

Filled with vitality following his transformation, Kor’sarro is not only hardier (with an extra wound) but he is able to make an extra attack in close combat. Combined with the new Shock Assault rule that all Space Marines get, he has an impressive six attacks on a turn he charges, is charged or performs a heroic intervention.

The Master of the Hunt still carries his signature blade Moonfang but its rules have had a little tweak. Now with +2 Strength, he can more easily cut through any chaff that tries to keep him from his prey, while re-rolls against Characters mean that he remains a superlative hero-hunter.

Kor’sarro is now accompanied by the cyber berkut Anzuq, a gift from the Chapter Master Jubal Khan. He can loose this hunting hawk upon a target, softening them up before the inevitable charge.**

If you want to lead your White Scars across the plains, hunting down enemies in the name of the Khagan and the Emperor, taking their heads as trophies and returning to Chogoris in triumph then you need Kor’sarro Khan.

Codex Supplement White Scars and Kor’sarro Khan are available to pre-order this weekend. In the mean time, make sure that the Master of the Hunt has some warriors to lead in pursuit of his quarry by picking up a squad of Primaris Intercessors.

[Guest]

Is the idea that they'll be releasing a genaric SM codex, and then each major GW chapter with either have a "codex supplement" or a PDF?

So like $60 to play marines, and another $40 to play ultramarines?

[VonVilkee]

3 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Is the idea that they'll be releasing a genaric SM codex, and then each major GW chapter with either have a "codex supplement" or a PDF?

So like $60 to play marines, and another $40 to play ultramarines?

Seems like it but only if you want unique units. The base codex still seems like it will be plenty for those that rail against special characters.

[Munkie]

23 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I've only ran them with 5th Ed Black Templar, so I loved the hell outta my 'raiders.

The only land raider I ever feared.

 

On topic: the Born in the Saddle rule is kinda odd conceptually. You can shoot after advancing, okay, makes sense.

For heavy weapons, they'll still fire at -1 because they moved, makes sense. Rapid fire weapons will fire at their regular BS because there is no provision in that rule or the BRB that their BS would be impacted. That's fine, I guess, if that's what was intended, but what's weird to me is that assault weapons will still be hitting at -1 BS because they already have existing rules for advancing and shooting, and nothing about Born in the Saddle overrides that.

So basically, White Scars are good at using more stationary guns on the move, but no better than anyone else at using weapons designed to be fired on the move. 

[WestRider]

5 minutes ago, Munkie said:

The only land raider I ever feared.

 

On topic: the Born in the Saddle rule is kinda odd conceptually. You can shoot after advancing, okay, makes sense.

For heavy weapons, they'll still fire at -1 because they moved, makes sense. Rapid fire weapons will fire at their regular BS because there is no provision in that rule or the BRB that their BS would be impacted. That's fine, I guess, if that's what was intended, but what's weird to me is that assault weapons will still be hitting at -1 BS because they already have existing rules for advancing and shooting, and nothing about Born in the Saddle overrides that.

So basically, White Scars are good at using more stationary guns on the move, but no better than anyone else at using weapons designed to be fired on the move. 

That's GW, baby!

[Guest]

Got a chance to talk to Matt of the Hillsboro Warhammer store (Ian is on vacation).

He says that the DA codex is staying, for the time being anyway, and they'll get a PDF update regarding how the new units work in their existing codex. No new book purchases for DA players.

He also said that the SM codex should be up for pre-order very soon, if not tomorrow.

[WestRider]

8 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Got a chance to talk to Matt of the Hillsboro Warhammer store (Ian is on vacation).

He says that the DA codex is staying, for the time being anyway, and they'll get a PDF update regarding how the new units work in their existing codex. No new book purchases for DA players.

He also said that the SM codex should be up for pre-order very soon, if not tomorrow.

It is, in fact, up for pre-order right now.

Looks like they've also re-boxed the Rhino/Razorback as a single kit. I guess they finally realized that no one with a lick of sense was buying just the Rhino kit, since the extras in any of the variants were totally worth the extra cost.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, WestRider said:

It is, in fact, up for pre-order right now.

I posted 8 hours ago and it wasn't there, then.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Looks like they've also re-boxed the Rhino/Razorback as a single kit. I guess they finally realized that no one with a lick of sense was buying just the Rhino kit, since the extras in any of the variants were totally worth the extra cost.

Was talking with Matt at the Warhammer store about that too. Matt was saying that the Repulsor is selling better than the rhino (and rhino variants), but GW doesn't seem to register that they sabotaged their other tanks with lots of different rules and FAQs that make buying them impractical.

I think GW's just really bad at gathering info on what sells and why it sells. I agree, why buy the rhino if you can get a razorback, or one of the many others.

The Repulsor is a dedicated transport, and it's underpriced for what it is, and it is/was the only thing that transported the primaris marines, which is the model line that GW's been giving all the best rules to and new model support. Plus the rhino has been out for quite some time so new sales compete against used models and players that already have enough.

So, of course, on paper it's going to look like the Repulsor sells better, but that an illusion GW has inflicted on themselves. GW seems to forget that their models compete with themselves, not with models from other companies. If they want the Rhinos to sell better, all they need to do is make them more viable in game. 

[InfestedKerrigan]

Multiple times, in the preview posts GW stated, in no unclear terms, that it would be up for preorder this weekend.  For as long as I can recall, preorder has been posted on Saturdays, between 8 and 10 am.  

Not 3 am.

[InfestedKerrigan]

On 8/8/2019 at 3:56 PM, Brother Glacius said:

Are sales for Marines down? 

 

On 8/8/2019 at 4:18 PM, InfestedKerrigan said:

GWs sales were down last quarter according to clickbate

 

On 8/8/2019 at 6:00 PM, Brandon said:

https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2019/07/games-workshop-revenue-smashes-250m-best-year-yet/

That was reporting done in July. 

However, Julys sales were down.

[WestRider]

5 hours ago, paxmiles said:

I posted 8 hours ago and it wasn't there, then.

Yeah, I was mostly just saying that it was, in fact, "tomorrow" rather than some other "very soon" that they went on pre-order. If that even makes any sense.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I would be more excited if not for concern about 9th ed.  I want to be excited, but I have low hopes of this edition (read: books) having any longevity.  It appears that they are working towards keeping it around, but I've felt that way about past editions.

[InfestedKerrigan]

INVICTORy Will Be Yours!

Picture this – you’re an 8-foot tall, genetically engineered, transhuman killing machine clad in inches-thick armour that augments your already formidable physical strength. What could possibly be cooler than that? Well, the answer is clearly WEARING A DREADNOUGHT! Welcome to the fun, action-packed world of an Invictor Tactical Warsuit pilot!

So, we’ve established that an Invictor Tactical Warsuit is made of purest win,* but what will it do for your army? Let’s check out what you’ll be working with…

Belisarius Cawl designed the Tactical Warsuit from a stripped-down Redemptor Dreadnoughtchassis. In practice, this translates as a beefy profile that can take a real beating before its characteristics begin to degrade – and even then, it’s still a significant threat.

Unlike the dedicated Dreadnought-class walkers, the Invictor Tactical Warsuit wasn’t created merely to act as a bulwark, providing its battle-brothers with heavy fire support or a devastating melee presence.** The use of lightweight, sound-dampening materials combined with the Invictor’s streamlined design allows for increased speed and relatively stealthy movement, making it the perfect war machine to accompany Vanguard strike forces on covert missions. On the battlefield, this grants the Invictor an agile starting Move characteristic of 10″, as well as the ability to set up in a forward position.

Even without its primary armaments, the Invictor Tactical Warsuit can cut down waves of lightly armoured targets with ease. Between them, its fragstorm grenade launcher, two ironhail heavy stubbers and heavy bolter ‘sidearm’ (which it can shoot like a Pistol to blow away enemies within 1″ of it!) fire a total of 10-15 shots per turn! By equipping your glorious war machine with an incendium cannon, you can augment this damage output even further by hosing your enemies down with liquid fire – preferably while screaming ‘PROMETHIUM DEEEAAATH!’ In fact, an incendium cannon alone has the potential to match the firepower of a Devastator Squad armed with four heavy bolters – and it hits automatically!

With a 12″ range, by setting up with Concealed Position, you’ll be burning bad guys from turn 1. There’s also no safe distance to charge an incendium cannon-toting Invictor from, as it will always be in range of the charging unit!***

Alternatively, if you’re looking to support your forces with some armour-busting firepower, arm your Invictor with a twin ironhail autocannon, which can dish out up to 12 Damage in a single, fearsome volley.

Enemy Transport Vehicles and Walkers will be shredded in short order by such firepower, but against high-Toughness or more heavily armoured targets, even your Invictor’s ironhail autocannon may not be enough. This is where your Invictor fist comes in! With the ability to set up much closer to the enemy thanks to Concealed Position, your Tactical Warsuit can use its 10″ Move to be right on top of your enemy before you even open fire. Soften up your prey with your Invictor’s autocannon, then charge in to finish it off with a total of five Attacks in combat (yay, Shock Assault)!

If you really want to put the fear of the Emperor into the heart of your opponent (via the medium of an Invictor fist through the chest!), field two, or even three, of these multipurpose war machines in a Concealed Position on one flank. From there, you’ll be able to launch a devastating attack on enemy lines as a group of menacing, turn-1-charging war machines. If you do, consider adding in a unit or two of Suppressors to shut down enemy Overwatch with their accelerator autocannons before your Invictors crash home to obliterate the survivors. This strategy will be especially effective in conjunction with certain Chapter Tactics, such as those of the White Scars (Advance and charge), Black Templars (re-roll charge rolls) and Space Wolves (+1 to hit with five Attacks).

Alternatively, your Invictors can hold their ground from their Concealed Position, forming an unyielding advance guard that you can swiftly reinforce with supporting units before taking the fight to the enemy. To aid them in this task, set up a Captain in Phobos Armour with your Invictors for re-rolls to hit (especially if they are armed with twin ironhail autocannons). He’ll also be able to make a Heroic Intervention to lend his strength against any enemy charges until your reinforcements can join them. The defensive benefits of the Salamanders (ignore AP-1), Iron Hands (ignore wounds and improved Damage table) and Crimson Fists (+1 to hit when outnumbered) Chapter Tactics are very well suited to this strategy.

But that’s just the start – it’s called a Tactical Warsuit for a reason, as there are loads of ways to use it! The miniature itself is also super-flexible in how it can be assembled, so multiple models never need to look the same. The fingers of the Invictor fist (and many of the Tactical Warsuit’s other joints besides) are articulated, meaning the miniature’s pose is highly adaptable. You could have a trio of Invictors in three different stages of delivering slaughterous death – one punching, another with heavy bolter in hand, and a third pistol-whipping some poor, unsuspecting victim!

You’ll be able to pre-order your awesome Invictor Tactical Warsuit (or Warsuits, as you’ll no doubt be after more than one!) this weekend, so start plotting how you’re going to use yours on the battlefield. 

[Sgt. Rock]

That looks super sweet, but T6? Even with 13 wounds and a 3+ save, that seems really fragile. Granted, it fits the theme, but it's definitely a glass cannon. If you're not going first, don't infiltrate it.

[VonVilkee]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Rock said:

That looks super sweet, but T6? Even with 13 wounds and a 3+ save, that seems really fragile. Granted, it fits the theme, but it's definitely a glass cannon. If you're not going first, don't infiltrate it.

Something is gonna die first turn... Best you can do is force a poor choice on your opponent. If the whole force is phobos equivalent who cares! It is still wounds on the table. Difference between T6 and T7 with the new chart is pretty negligible.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Rock said:

That looks super sweet, but T6? Even with 13 wounds and a 3+ save, that seems really fragile. Granted, it fits the theme, but it's definitely a glass cannon. If you're not going first, don't infiltrate it.

Those Pirhanna Tau skimmers are T5 and they last a surprisingly long ammount of time. Attack bikes too.

Main question is points - is the cost low enough where shooting at it is a waste? T6 is fine for something cheap.

[Sgt. Rock]

49 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Main question is points - is the cost low enough where shooting at it is a waste? T6 is fine for something cheap.

That's the biggest thing, honestly. Primaris stuff tends to be overpriced, because they end up bolting all kinds of unnecessary gubbins and gewgaws all over it, and they give it far more firepower than it really needs, which cranks up the both the cost and threat. If this thing can really put out that much firepower, it's worth focusing on over, say, a Predator or a tradtional Dreadnought. A heavy bolter, two heavy stubbers, grenade launchers, and either a 12" heavy flamer or a Heavy 6 autocannon? Yeah, that's worth trying to burn down before it can shoot. Don't get me wrong, it looks really useful, but I worry about the cost-to-survivability ratio on it. Then again, I don't really play enough 40k right now to have a good idea of what's what (not that I don't want to, but time and funds are limited, especially leading up to OFCC.)