Apocalypse

[wisetiger7]

Any feedback on Apocalypse?

I've read quite a bit on dakka and various batreps, and for the most part people seem to shine a favorable light on the ruleset and the gameplay. I haven't gotten a game in yet, but was wondering what your experience has been.

Thanks.

[Pyre Warden]

I loved it. The biggest problem I've had in previous apoc games is that whoever has first turn usually devestates the opponent. With damage being done at end of turn instead of by each shot I find that everyone gets to use cool units for a minimum of a turn or two instead of not at all. 

 

Deepstriking is really strong.

 

Tyranids can easily draw their whole deck each turn.

 

It's a lot more fun than before 

[wisetiger7]

I bought it on release day and read the rules. It actually seems like a well thought out ruleset to me. It has taken the best elements from Kill Team and 40k, streamlined the rules, and balanced the units a little better, so that there aren't as many auto-shelf/auto-field units. In other words, it seems like units that you normally would leave home (because they just suck sooo bad) in a game of 40k you could bring in an apocalypse game and be useful, and in some cases really useful.

The alternating activations of detachments seems like a good balance between UgoIgo and alternating units. It would keep both players engaged and speed up the game, especially with the orders being the same for the whole detachment. Combat seems easy and self-explanatory, saving time on the barrels of dice rolled. Damage at the end of the round is probably my favorite part. Models that might otherwise be a liability in 40k have at least one turn to be useful in apoc, and  make it so you don't feel bad for bringing it because (for the most part) it won't get wiped from the board before you get a chance to use it. While I understand Alpha-Strike was a big part of 7th edition (still prevalent in 8th, though diminished somewhat), and that it is a common strategy (especially in the competitive realm of the game), it can be disheartening to have half your army wiped out by a first turn opponent before you even get to use the models you brought. I've been on both sides of alpha strike, and it isn't fun for either player (of course YMMV). The image of armies launching salvos and barrages of fire at each other across the battlefield is better visualized with the apocalypse ruleset.

I also see that the strategy of the game changes apoc. Instead of positioning your entire army, it becomes more of a back and forth chess game of which detachment moves first, which ones you want to set up to counter strike if the opponent moves a certain detachment, etc.

I've also observed in the ruleset that while it still allows for soup (especially at the scale of the game), it also encourages monofaction lists to some degree better than 40k. And the building rules are soooo much clearer and simpler. The cards seem to be more for adding flavor of the army in contrast to the simplification of the units in the ruleset. While some cards may be more powerful than others, they're still one use, and again, damage doesn't happen until the end.

I've read several opinions that assume GW might be using Apocalypse as a testing ground for 9th edition (or an 8th errata). That might mean that this is the direction in which GW will take the game. Either way, there seem to be vastly more positive opinions of the game than negative.

[fingolfen]

So I'm trying to figure out how to port my Genestealer Cult army over to Apocalypse at this point...  I generally run a two detachment force, one Genestealer Cult with a separate Brood Brother (Astra Militarum) force to get some heavy guns other other what not.  I've been going through the datasheets and didn't see an obvious way of doing this other than simply taking a pure Astra Militarum detachment to go along with the GSC.  Thoughts?

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, fingolfen said:

So I'm trying to figure out how to port my Genestealer Cult army over to Apocalypse at this point...  I generally run a two detachment force, one Genestealer Cult with a separate Brood Brother (Astra Militarum) force to get some heavy guns other other what not.  I've been going through the datasheets and didn't see an obvious way of doing this other than simply taking a pure Astra Militarum detachment to go along with the GSC.  Thoughts?

There's no Ally options in apok? Sounds unlikely. Suppose you could houserule it.

[Torg]

I am looking into getting these new rules - We are planning another Black Friday Apoc game (November 29th) at Fate and Fury Games in Vancouver, WA.  We are just starting to realize that maybe we should use these new rules lol.

 

-d

[fingolfen]

Just now, paxmiles said:

There's no Ally options in apok? Sounds unlikely. Suppose you could houserule it.

There may be in the main book, but I've just been going over the basic force lists so far.  The list building in the 40K GSC Codex is so obviously I guess I was hoping for something similar in the Apocalypse Datasheets...

40K GSC Codex entry for reference:

[wisetiger7]

Is there something wrong with just having a GSC detachment and a IG detachment? Brood Brothers don't get Cult rules anyway.

[Torg]

that makes the most sense really - you have 2 different detachments - no reason to over complicate the matter.

 

-d

[InfestedKerrigan]

I just obtained the Apoc BRB, looking forward to thumbing (scrolling?) through it.

[InfestedKerrigan]

As far as I can tell, the concept of Allies doesn't exist in Apoc.  There are either Friendly Detachments or Enemy Detachments.  Friendly Detachments are any detachments that you take, while Enemy Detachments are any detachments your enemy takes.  Each individual Detachment must abide by Faction restrictions, but your Apoc Army does not, as far as I can tell.

[wisetiger7]

Getting in a game of Apocalypse with Muskrat tomorrow morning at GG; my Necrons facing off against his Dark Angels, 144 PL which equates to just a little over 2k points in 40k. Will update you after.

[Guest]

As I recall, in the pre-apoc FW rules, you'd just have detachments per side and the "ally" concept didn't exist one way or another. So if you wanted a detachment of chaos with a detachment of chaos, it didn't really matter. You just couldn't mix and match within the same detachment.

Age of Sigmar has like a % total army points of allies limit, could go for something like that if you find it needs limitations.

[WestRider]

On 8/27/2019 at 5:08 PM, InfestedKerrigan said:

As far as I can tell, the concept of Allies doesn't exist in Apoc.  There are either Friendly Detachments or Enemy Detachments.  Friendly Detachments are any detachments that you take, while Enemy Detachments are any detachments your enemy takes.  Each individual Detachment must abide by Faction restrictions, but your Apoc Army does not, as far as I can tell.

Yeah, this is correct. I got a chance to look through the book, and there are no restrictions on which Factions can be on the same side.

[Pyre Warden]

The only restrictions come in what cards you can have in your deck and what abilities affect what units. Other than that its good to go on using allies. 

[wisetiger7]

@Muskrat and I got a game in and it was pretty fun, his Dark Angels against my Necrons. We drew Meatgrinder (played without the reinforcements because we forgot). Setting up, deployment, and going over the rules took about a little over an hour. The game lasted through 4 turns and took about two hours. All in all, just under 4 hours. The gameplay took a little bit to get used to, but started going smoothly about round 2. It was a lot of looking at datasheet cards (or printed datasheets, as Dark Angels don't have their own cards for deathwing and ravenwing). Damage and morale went super smooth. Necron victory, but only because I was the defender, and defender wins ties each round. Otherwise, we were dead matched point for point.

Overall, I like the gameplay, and the scale of battle. The ruleset and gameplay are solid, and in many ways better than 40k. One thing that I did miss was the individuality of different subfactions (other than a handful of command asset cards). The damage phase at the end was amazing, and added a whole new dimension of strategy; having to throw extra shots at units to make sure they died in the subsequent damage phase was key.