MexicanNinja Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 No... what? I had no clue!!! I have never even played a game before!!!! Gosh enlighten me more could you? Seriously, of course people can still break stuff. The comp is part of a system aimed at blunting the nastiest stuff (and sometimes the weakest armies too)... it is a single piece of a puzzle... and no the puzzle is not perfect, so don't add those words to my mouth either. If I gave you an extremely bright lamp, would I enlighten you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 Ok, this got a little more sensitive than I thought. I thought the council of judges was going to be a tough job since they will have to know the Army Books well but it looks like it maybe the most thankless job out there. I thought the list rating has been around for awhile and was there to pit tougher lists against tough lists to prevent badly mismatched games. I honestly didn't think it was an insult if your list got rated a 5 if you tried to make a tough list. I know some have been upset when their list was rejected and were made to redo their list, but I thought that was rare. Honestly I hope this is more just knee jerk reactions on the forum and not really players being discouraged from wanting to go to the OFCC. I honestly really do want to see you guys at OFCC, looking at you MN, and that we can have some fun games, good laughs and beers after games. That's honestly why I am going, I know I won't be bringing any prizes home besides good memories and a possible hangover. But I am going to exit stage left now. And I guess I see I will have to think of this as I pair my team members up, it turns out my team wanted me to captain this year Mexicaninja, so I get the Fun job. Cheers everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoslayer Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 I just want to point out, I'm not complaining, I'm still planning on going and have a great time, the ofcc is always a fantastic event. It is just that the question was asked what we thought of the comp, and I added my opinion in order to be constructive, nothing malicious about it. It is difficult to run an event this big, and impossible to please everyone and still reach the intended goal of a friendly team tournament, and we must acknowledge that comp is always hit and miss, and even the concept of hit or miss changes based on personal perspectives. I think it will be interesting to see if the comp ideas work in the way they are intended, and I'm sure that the organizers will learn a lot from it as they always do. I'm just hoping for a more clear idea next year as to what is considered a 3 so that I can do well to hit the target, shooting blind is not an easy task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 Murphy, the comp in no way has me not wanting to attend. I love the fantasy group and can't wait for the event. Just like mojo stated. The question was asked and I stated my opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 One thing to consider is that a the definition of a "3" may depend on what the entire collection of lists looks like. A middle of the road list from one year might be near the top or near the bottom the next year. So giving examples isn't really practical. That, and it opens the door to all kinds of arguments, the last thing that the already-busy list rating team needs. However feeling like you're shooting in the dark is understandable! May I suggest trying to: 1) Build a list that you know contains several units that aren't "worth their points" (I hate that phrase!), but you put them in because you like them anyway 2) Give your list some "cinematic" choices instead of optimizing for efficacy… you know, envision a cool battle from a movie, or what units your army would have in "real life" given your backstory 3) Don't build a list with one single strategy in mind (e.g. evade and shoot, or castle and shoot, or blitz and run them over) but instead build it with several ways it can play depending on opponent (some shooting, some fighting, maybe some magic) If you do some or all of these things, you'll be fine and needn't even worry about a "3" vs. a "2" or "4". I'm not on the committee but I think that's a pretty safe bet. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 Ok, this got a little more sensitive than I thought. I thought the council of judges was going to be a tough job since they will have to know the Army Books well but it looks like it maybe the most thankless job out there. I can attest to this, having been on it before (on the 40k side). We nerds looove the word "incompetent." List rating is tough, especially in a vacuum. Having a few parameters to look at (even if they are somewhat arbitrary) greatly helps that process. I'm willing to make that concession for their sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 There is no perfect comp system, but I think that some is needed for this event. Of the years that I have attended, people seemed to have the most complaints after we went with little-to-no comp. Again, there is no perfect system, and somebody is going to be put out no matter what is done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkieft Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Ok, this got a little more sensitive than I thought. I thought the council of judges was going to be a tough job since they will have to know the Army Books well but it looks like it maybe the most thankless job out there. I thought the list rating has been around for awhile and was there to pit tougher lists against tough lists to prevent badly mismatched games. I honestly didn't think it was an insult if your list got rated a 5 if you tried to make a tough list. I know some have been upset when their list was rejected and were made to redo their list, but I thought that was rare. Honestly I hope this is more just knee jerk reactions on the forum and not really players being discouraged from wanting to go to the OFCC. I honestly really do want to see you guys at OFCC, looking at you MN, and that we can have some fun games, good laughs and beers after games. That's honestly why I am going, I know I won't be bringing any prizes home besides good memories and a possible hangover. But I am going to exit stage left now. And I guess I see I will have to think of this as I pair my team members up, it turns out my team wanted me to captain this year Mexicaninja, so I get the Fun job. Cheers everyone. Ahh yeah, the slow realization that you signed the wrong bit of paper... Welcome to the club sir, welcome to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 There is a reason I put my Dark Elves on the shelf for this event and posted a few list for the masses to pick for me to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkieft Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 If I gave you an extremely bright lamp, would I enlighten you? Try it and find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Try it and find out. Challenge accepted! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJTW Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 So I guess the answer to my question is that opinion is all over the place. Personally I think that the current edition is pretty self balancing. If you are afraid of the big spells, don't death star. If you are worried about Monsters take a tar pit or a cannon. If you build around a single unit or mechanic there is always a counter out there especially with the current books. That said, it is not my event to run, and I believe it is going to be outstanding just like the last four I have been to. I also look forward to seeing how the open works out. I think we can handle a no comp world. It is about the players, not the rules. I hope that seeing how the open does will support my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkieft Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 So I guess the answer to my question is that opinion is all over the place. Personally I think that the current edition is pretty self balancing. If you are afraid of the big spells, don't death star. If you are worried about Monsters take a tar pit or a cannon. If you build around a single unit or mechanic there is always a counter out there especially with the current books. Ding ding ding! We have a winner!!!! I think you are sorta right on the "self balancing" thing. The thing is, most books have reasonable counters to every tactic. Most books have a LOT of options... ... but then some don't... Now I don't think we are attempting to dumb it all down to "allow" these books but the fact is if a guy wants to play the Tomb Kings (other then the like 1.5 builds that work), this is his event! By saying "Please don't spam all your armies best stuff" we are saying "Lets let everyone play with what they want". assuming you don't "want" 7 cannons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Flanders Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Speaking as both an old timer and a newcomer to the OFCC, I'll say that I tend to agree with many of the points raised, I.e. that by limiting certain choices, you just change the rules by which a player might bring a no-fun list, a jerk will be a jerk, and it takes more than comp restrictions to deter jerks. Also, I have felt a tad restricted by some blanket restrictions in the past, where I certainly wasn't bringing an over hard army, but I had to change it because it contained "a violation". Now that being said, on those occasions, I had to make some new figures to make my army OFCC compliant, one of which is one of my personal favorite figures in 30 years of doing this hobby....so maybe that was a good thing! My feeling today is that no system will please everyone, and that the goal of the list raters and indeed the event as a whole, is to attract a certain type of player with a certain type of army and thus make a fun event that is more about playing fun games than seeing who goes 5&0. I personally favor the "I know porn when I see it" system similar to what the list raters are doing as opposed to points based Swedish type comp systems that just make another layer of gaming to game the comp system. My only request is that we are able to know our list passes muster well in advance of the event.....in case I need to make some new figures! :) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan-of-War Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 The OFCC, as I understand it, is your chance to shine using a moderate to mediocre list. Challenge yourself. Toss aside those net lists and 'Ard Boyz attitudes and start fielding all those cool units you always wished you could but the interwebz told you suck. Bring that all-Free Company list, those Ungor Tomb-Raiders or your Reptiles-and-Samurai horde. Lighten up, drink a beer and gawk at all the amazing creativity there is here in the Pacific Northwest. OFCC is the Benny Hinn of Warhammer. Throw down those crutches and walk again my people! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Don't worry Lion, a good responsible captain will ensure lists aren't pornographic prior to list submission. Your army however is definitely porn. No human can paint that well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarbicus Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 This old timer laughs every year when this exact same thread shows up prior to OFCC! We should just cut and past last year's thread to save time. I like comp. In the old days, I was a definite "comp onion". For me it is one of the factors that keeps each event unique. Don't like the comp for a particular event? Don't go. Why is that so hard to understand? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarbicus Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 The OFCC, as I understand it, is your chance to shine using a moderate to mediocre list. Challenge yourself. Toss aside those net lists and 'Ard Boyz attitudes and start fielding all those cool units you always wished you could but the interwebz told you suck. Bring that all-Free Company list, those Ungor Tomb-Raiders or your Reptiles-and-Samurai horde. Lighten up, drink a beer and gawk at all the amazing creativity there is here in the Pacific Northwest. OFCC is the Benny Hinn of Warhammer. Throw down those crutches and walk again my people! I love you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I wish we had a rabble rabble thread to rehash this argument every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 @Swan-of-War/Yarb: These are exactly my thoughts and why I am bringing not one but two Hunters in my list instead of two Ironblasters (which I have shamefully played with). And Yhetees too! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinewgrab Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 I think what no small amount of you may be overlooking is that comp based the newest 'deadly combo' can sometimes inadvertently quash a modeler's 'this will be neat' army, even if it does have huge holes in its comp, but just happened to have some parts that have comped into submission. Say someone wanted to bring an all-savage/barbarian O&G army? Nope, Interweb lists have spammed the one big unit of Savage Boyz, so your shamelessly modeled Native American Savage Orc/ Forest Goblin army is now null and void for the fun event you wanted to show it off at, as is the monster heavy Dark Elf army, with little to no static resolution that never wins, but looks spectacular. That limiting the modeler's imagination by forcing them away from units that lend themselves to conversion and such, to me, is against the spirit of the event that I have made no small effort to attend for the last 7 years (I missed one when I was unemployed). Same reason I disagree with ruling that everyone on a team has to have a different army - restricting for no good reason that I can see. You have a Captain with 4 armies to look at - I bet he can handle it. Feel free to disagree with me - I don't mind. But remember that some of us that use this event as our main Warhammer event each year because it is a good group of intelligent players may not have the time to go running over to WOW or become a Senator, and sometimes not the money to choose different armies than we have without straining resources, but we are just as invested - only not as loud. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be heard - or get shouted down. (You know who I am talking to - yes, you.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan-of-War Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 You make some good points Sinewgrab, those armies sound cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonRuger Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 The problem sometimes arises where the restrictions make you buy and paint units you don't want In your army to make it a viable army. Some restrictions are fine as we have almost always had them, but I must say I find it interesting that those who push for them the most are the very ones who have very strong armies when it comes time to play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicFlava Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 So last year's OFCC was the lightest comp i have seen and there were some problems with a few lists. The previous 3 i went to had stricter comp and there were zero problems with lists. This fact alone IMO makes the case for comp. If someone wants to bring an army that breaks the comp rules but is fluffy and not a hard list then talk with your captain about it and maybe an exception can be made. Not promising anything but i dont see that as out of the realm of possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 The problem sometimes arises where the restrictions make you buy and paint units you don't want In your army to make it a viable army. Some restrictions are fine as we have almost always had them, but I must say I find it interesting that those who push for them the most are the very ones who have very strong armies when it comes time to play. He's onto us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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