9th age Khorne Daemons

[Guest]

So, options are now Orc & Goblin forest goblin giant spiders or Warriors of the Dark Gods Giant mammoth thing.

Or could ditch the siege towers.

Or could ditch 9th age.

[Ish]

Ignorant question from someone whose never so much as skimmed The 9th Age rules, but, well... Couldn’t you use the siege towers as siege towers? 
 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Ish said:

Ignorant question from someone whose never so much as skimmed The 9th Age rules, but, well... Couldn’t you use the siege towers as siege towers? 
 

That's the part that bugs me the most, 9th age doesn't have any. They just have the stuff from 8e that GW had in 8e. Furthermore, AoS doesn't have any. In fact, doesn't seem like any current fantasy game does siege combat at all.

Every single medieval fantasy film has a big siege battle, but for some reason, wanting to play that, is crazy.

[Guest]

I want to do siege battles, or at least be able to to field siege stuff in a counts as capacity. That's what I'm looking for in a medieval fantasy game.

I miss the old GW. Current one seeks to monotize everything, I like the old GW that encouraged players to be creative and make cool stuff with cardboard and popsicle sticks.

 

[Guest]

That's the kind of fantasy battle I picture. That looks really fun.

[Ish]

Warhammer Siege was always my favorite way to play WHFB. 

I’ve really enjoyed this siege scenario for Saga: Age of Crusades. It would work for Age of Magic too.

[TheBeninator]

The T9A echos your desire for siege play. There is an enormous amount of homebrew built off the T9A engine, if you are still interested you should look there.

To say that T9A does not want siege rules is to not fully appreciate what the project is, what it’s goals are, and what resources it has to work with. 

Siege rules will happen eventually, as will a skirmish game, heck even an RPG. The timeline for these things is just far off.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, TheBeninator said:

The T9A echos your desire for siege play. There is an enormous amount of homebrew built off the T9A engine, if you are still interested you should look there.

To say that T9A does not want siege rules is to not fully appreciate what the project is, what it’s goals are, and what resources it has to work with. 

Siege rules will happen eventually, as will a skirmish game, heck even an RPG. The timeline for these things is just far off.

Eventually is a worthy goal and a good reason to shelve the siege tower models and consider building the rest of the army without them.

But, without the siege towers, the main reason to play daemons is gone, and now I'm left with total freedom in which army to play....Might still do daemons, but it's something to consider.

[TheBeninator]

22 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Eventually is a worthy goal and a good reason to shelve the siege tower models and consider building the rest of the army without them.

But, without the siege towers, the main reason to play daemons is gone, and now I'm left with total freedom in which army to play....Might still do daemons, but it's something to consider.

I have always been somewhat interested in Demons as a pure hobby army. You can literally just green stuff random bits and other stuff together an call it an abomination. 

I was at the coast this summer doing some crabbing, looking at all the dried and discarded crab claws and stuff all over the place. At a 28mm scale they would be terrifying. THey also have a crazy amount of 3D detail that would make them super easy to paint.

Certainly not a conventional approach to minis.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, TheBeninator said:

I have always been somewhat interested in Demons as a pure hobby army. You can literally just green stuff random bits and other stuff together an call it an abomination. 

I was at the coast this summer doing some crabbing, looking at all the dried and discarded crab claws and stuff all over the place. At a 28mm scale they would be terrifying. THey also have a crazy amount of 3D detail that would make them super easy to paint.

Certainly not a conventional approach to minis.

Well, I'd refrain from using actual corpses in my models, crab or otherwise. Maybe for undead, but I feel like there's a line there somewhere that isn't wise to cross. I already look at toys and hardware as potential model conversions, seems like a problem if I start seeing living creatures as potential model components...

[Ish]

Back in Michigan, a guy at my FLGS did a whole Dark Eldar army that really played up their pirate imagery, he used conventional conversion tricks like using lots of WHFB Dark Elf corsair bitz, but he also used real lichen, moss, and seashells.

Had a really cool look, like the Flying Dutchman from Pirates of the Carribean crossed with Hellraiser cenobites.

[Guest]

Ugh, decoding this army is hard. Okay, so entry for a given unit has very simple short list of abilities. Then I go into army builder, and now they have a long list.

What army builder is doing is breaking down clustered rules into a confusing mess of rules. Like Army builder says all my daemons have Unstable. They don't, they have Supernal. Supernal imparts a modified Unstable, and it is basically Unstable, but listing Unstable and Supernal on the datasheet is just misleading because it implies they have both normal Unstable and Supernal.

And this would be so simple if armybuilder just mentioned Unstable was gained because of Supernal, but it doesn't say anything, leaving me to have to "decode" the army further as I try to figure out how my daemons getting more rules between the army builder and the army book.

On the other hand, the 9th age rulebook is very well indexed.

 

Just venting.

[Guest]

On 11/13/2019 at 7:17 PM, TheBeninator said:

I have always been somewhat interested in Demons as a pure hobby army. You can literally just green stuff random bits and other stuff together an call it an abomination.

That's not limited to Daemons. Within reason, should be able to do that with just about any army.

I've been tempted to make a Beastman army as a hobby project for the same reason. They don't have to be goatmen, centaurs and minotaurs. Any half human half animal model would work. I've got a Platypus Wizard model that I got some time ago and I've always liked the idea of making a Beastman Shaman out of it.

Haven't posted it in a while, but I did make a Cygor model, a while back:

[Guest]

@Andrewgeddon any clue where the Chaos Dragons went in 9th age? Like I see the mount version, but that classic two headed chaos dragon, can't seem to find that.

[Andrewgeddon]

3 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

@Andrewgeddon any clue where the Chaos Dragons went in 9th age? Like I see the mount version, but that classic two headed chaos dragon, can't seem to find that.

IIRC, the only "stand alone" chaos dragon (or any dragon, for that matter) in WHFB was the named character? Galrauch? There might have been something from Monsterous Arcanum, but otherwise it was just mounts. No stand-alone dragon in 9th Age either, unless you want to run it as "counts as" something else.

[valourunbound]

I could easily see a two headed sorcerer dragon showing up in a list as a Sorcerer on Wasteland Dragon. One head is the caster, the other head is the Dragon :) 

[Guest]

I was just curious. Don't have a model anyway, mainly just wanted to see its rules.

[Guest]

Not too many current battle reports online for daemonic legions, but I've been looking at a few. The main thing, I'm not seeing a lot of deathstars. Seems like daemons use hard hitting units more than durable units, in most games.

Don't see the Lemures getting used much, either.

Also, kinda unrelated, seems like there's a lot of battle reports being pumped out by players that don't paint their armies very well...I guess the time required to you-cylinder is too much to also get good at painting...lol.

[TheBeninator]

22 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Also, kinda unrelated, seems like there's a lot of battle reports being pumped out by players that don't paint their armies very well...I guess the time required to you-cylinder is too much to also get good at painting...lol.

I notice that too. Even in the European masters some players don't even paint their models. For demons, I think a lot of it has to do with the new book. People are still trying to figure out what they want their list to look like, so they hold off on painting stuff up. 

That said, there are some BR casters that have very good commentary and beautiful armies. I am a sucker for chihammer myself. Follow-Furion is also good for really well explained tactics, but he has a somewhat arrogant You-tube persona, and only has a handful of T9A BR. 

In general, I think most T9A BR are pretty basic in quality. It's difficult to produce one and there is little incentive since being a T9A influencer will get you 0 dollars from the T9A project.

Death stars are somewhat out of vogue, long gone are the days of winning a match because you have banner of the world dragon + a bunch of characters in a pheonix guard unit. The lack of Lemurs is likely just due to the specific meta that caster is coming from. Resistance 5 core is nothing to scoff at, demons just happen to have a lot of really awesome core options to compete with Lemurs.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, TheBeninator said:

In general, I think most T9A BR are pretty basic in quality. It's difficult to produce one and there is little incentive since being a T9A influencer will get you 0 dollars from the T9A project.

Death stars are somewhat out of vogue, long gone are the days of winning a match because you have banner of the world dragon + a bunch of characters in a pheonix guard unit. The lack of Lemurs is likely just due to the specific meta that caster is coming from. Resistance 5 core is nothing to scoff at, demons just happen to have a lot of really awesome core options to compete with Lemurs.

What is a T9A "Influencer"? Maybe a you-cylinder thing?

Any chance you could do a breakdown of what's "Good" about the daemon legions core choices. I have my own conclusions, but having never played and still being at the "decoding" stage of rules understanding, would be quite nice to hear some other people's understandings of my faction, especially the core.

[TheBeninator]

8 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

What is a T9A "Influencer"? Maybe a you-cylinder thing?

Any chance you could do a breakdown of what's "Good" about the daemon legions core choices. I have my own conclusions, but having never played and still being at the "decoding" stage of rules understanding, would be quite nice to hear some other people's understandings of my faction, especially the core.

Its like any influencer on You-Tube. They get money to get people hyped about a product. 

DL core is not per-se better than special choices, but since you are obligated to take the core here is the quick and dirty.

Imps - Can gain a spell to cast + ranged attack + 3+ Aegis from ranged. So they are basically a shooting unit that does not count against any other restricted category. They are reasonably fast, with scoring so they spend a few turns support shooting + casting, then grab objectives later in the game.

Succubi - They have 3 attacks per model. 3! That is freaking unheard of for core except for like chaos warriors with paired weapons. They are also OWS 4, which is fairly elite for core (dwarf/elf status). Strength 3 is not great, but if you are able to buff them to strength 4 you end up getting a lot of mileage out of small units of them. They will chew up other core.

Lemurs - R5 + Parry. Again, R5 is unheard of for core, they are a solid anvil

Myrmidons - S5 + Battle focus + FIER - Str 5 is also rare for core but certainly not unheard of due to great weapons.

Add to any of these units the choice of 5 different upgrades which allows you to further fill their role to the purposes of your list.

Core has to be thought of as a bag of lemons. You always have to take said bag of lemons, but being able to choose what you want to do with the lemons is really helpful. DL appears to have a ton of agency over these decisions. I don't know if there are any other factions that have close to as many options as DL.

 

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, TheBeninator said:

Its like any influencer on You-Tube. They get money to get people hyped about a product.

Huh. So it's not just views, they're getting money to make their broadcast into an ad. That explains a few things. Haven't really gotten into you-cylinder much. Not really my cup of coffee.

6 minutes ago, TheBeninator said:

DL core is not per-se better than special choices, but since you are obligated to take the core here is the quick and dirty.

Imps - Can gain a spell to cast + ranged attack + 3+ Aegis from ranged. So they are basically a shooting unit that does not count against any other restricted category. They are reasonably fast, with scoring so they spend a few turns support shooting + casting, then grab objectives later in the game.

Succubi - They have 3 attacks per model. 3! That is freaking unheard of for core except for like chaos warriors with paired weapons. They are also OWS 4, which is fairly elite for core (dwarf/elf status). Strength 3 is not great, but if you are able to buff them to strength 4 you end up getting a lot of mileage out of small units of them. They will chew up other core.

Lemurs - R5 + Parry. Again, R5 is unheard of for core, they are a solid anvil

Myrmidons - S5 + Battle focus + FIER - Str 5 is also rare for core but certainly not unheard of due to great weapons.

Add to any of these units the choice of 5 different upgrades which allows you to further fill their role to the purposes of your list.

Core has to be thought of as a bag of lemons. You always have to take said bag of lemons, but being able to choose what you want to do with the lemons is really helpful. DL appears to have a ton of agency over these decisions. I don't know if there are any other factions that have close to as many options as DL.

Interesting. Thanks.

Though regarding the imps, they do have a model cap per army. Even with max-cost imps, I don't think I can fill the Core with them at 4500pts.

But for core diversity, seems like there's lots of that in 9th age. Most of the factions I looked into have pretty good variety in their core choices, well within the theme of the faction (like I thought undying legions has diverse core choices, but they're still all undead so not on that point).

[Guest]

When can I pivot? Like a rank and file unit.

Doesn't seem to be addressed directly in the move section. Definitely have rules for pivoting, but doesn't mention that you can or can't do it as a multi-model unit. Reforming should have the same effect, but I'm not seeing a pivot option.

[valourunbound]

Pivot specifically comes up in two contexts:

1. Single models units can pivot as many times as they want while advancing (aka not charging). Monsters, single chariots, etc.
2. Post combat pivot. After you win combat, the enemy flees and you choose not to pursue/overrun, you can either pivot or reform. The key bit here is that you lose scoring until the beginning of the next player turn. This is to prevent winning a combat on the last turn and then reforming into a 20-30 wide conga line in order to get an objective. Also, you cannot charge immediately after performing a post combat reform (so if you finish a combat on the enemy turn, you cannot reform and then charge on your turn). I guess that's two key bits.

[Guest]

@valourunbound

So, sake of argument, I have a 5 model unit and they want to use Vanguard. I can't use this move to pivot, but I could use it to reform (which can be used to do something very similar, if not the same).