InfestedKerrigan Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 Oh, absolutely. It is fully a writers plot device. I mean, that's the biggest reason people get pissy about 40k rules, they don't match the fluff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ish said: I think I’ve spotted the problem. Your knowledge of these characters is largely based on the Marvel Cinematic Universe, isn’t it? That and the animated stuff and a few of the video games, but yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Reading the old comics is for older men 😉😋 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 Just now, InfestedKerrigan said: Oh, absolutely. It is fully a writers plot device. I mean, that's the biggest reason people get pissy about 40k rules, they don't match the fluff. Which is just silly, since the whole point of WH40k fluff is that all of WH40k fluff is a <s>lie</s> corrected version of events being fed to you by a <s>corrupt and incompetent</s> benevolent and compassionate government bureaucracy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ish said: To be fair, it’s not like WH40k’s characters and factions are immune to “As Powerful As Plot Requires” syndrome either. One short-story will see a single tactical squad of Space Marines completely annihilate an entire Space Ork Waaagh! without breaking a sweat. The next story will see an entire Battle Company decimated by a few hundred Orks... The other end is that 40k is about epic wars, not so much individual heroes. Even if the avengers constitute a tough multi-cultural defense, the mono-cultured imperium is going to send wave after wave of impressive assaults and eventually obliterate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 Just now, paxmiles said: The other end is that 40k is about epic wars, not so much individual heroes. Even if the avengers constitute a tough multi-cultural defense, the mono-cultured imperium is going to send wave after wave of impressive assaults. Shi'ar Empire, Skrulls, Kree, Annihilation Wave, etc. You just aren't familiar with the instances where this has happened in the Marvel Universe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 Just now, InfestedKerrigan said: Shi'ar Empire, Skrulls, Kree, Annihilation Wave, etc. You just aren't familiar with the instances where this has happened in the Marvel Universe. Most of those are from TV. And I just think the imperium is tougher than those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, paxmiles said: The other end is that 40k is about epic wars, not so much individual heroes. Even if the avengers constitute a tough multi-cultural defense, the mono-cultured imperium is going to send wave after wave of impressive assaults and eventually obliterate them. That’s what the Shi’ar, Kree, Skrulls, Badoon, Chittauri, Dire Wraiths, Phalanx, and a few hundred others all thought too. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 To further that point, the Avengers, on the regular, defeat or cause pause in the plans of beings on par with the Chaos Pantheon. Matt Ward ain't got [big bad swear word] on Marvel writers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said: To further that point, the Avengers, on the regular, defeat or cause pause in the plans of beings on par with the Chaos Pantheon. Matt Ward ain't got [big bad swear word] on Marvel writers. Hey, I'm not defending Matt Ward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 The point is, it isn't the 20th Century Marine Corp going against 1400 bc Minoans battle difference that I think you think it would be like. Hulk could likely take on a Space Marine Battle Company by himself. Iron Man, with maybe 3 suit exceptions, would not be able to do so. By himself, he could reliably take on 20+ Space Marines. Scarlet Witch, as Ish mentioned, is a bit of a wild card only in as much as her power set. OGSW wouldn't be able to take on more than a couple Space Marines. Quicksilver, similar numbers. Thor would be Iron Man to Hulk level. Getting beyond the Avengers, you can start adding in Bishop, Cable, and Apocalypse to the Iron Man damage levels. Wolverine, too. Heralds of Galactus bring us the ability to start taking on multiple Battle Companies. Now, let's jump the shark: Phoenix of the White Room, Cosmic Ghost Rider, Quentin Quire, Franklin Richards..... They can take on the Imperium by themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, paxmiles said: In 40k terms, Iron Man has lacking tech. He's got a jump pack and a 4+ armor save. He's got a lasgun in each arm and a good balistic skill, but that's it. Oh, and super human S4 strength thanks to his suit. He's a strong guardsman, but basically on par with a scion. Oh, and he's got a sentient AI working for him, so he's heretical...Ordo Cybernetica should get called in. And I'm thinking of the film lineup, not the full range of "heroes" from the comics. Hahano. The flight systems on even his suit from the end of the first IM movie were capable of reaching low earth orbit. That's not the same as a SM jump pack. Dialed all the way up, his Repulsor beams are anti-tank weapons, and the armour is easily capable of taking comparable fire and remaining operational. By the time you get to his later nano-tech equipped suits, he can got toe-to-toe with someone who's capable of throwing battle tanks for miles. For a point of reference, in 40K, an Imperial Knight can throw a tank perhaps a few hundred yards. The power level isn't as obvious in the MCU, because they're largely going up against foes of similar power level, but think about the various Hero(es) vs. Horde fights in the MCU: The Chitauri, the Ultron Drones, Surtr's dragon minion things, Thanos's shock troops in either Infinity War or Endgame, etc. The grunts that they're blasting through by the dozens there are all, themselves, capable of going through something like 40K Guardsmen just as easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 Dealing with a threat akin to Galactus is a rough weekend for most superhero teams in the Marvel Universe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 Primarchs are more in line with many of the enhanced heroes and heroins. Klyntar enhanced humanoids are akin to Possessed Space Marines. Tyranids and the Brood are very similar, with a sprinkling of Kerrigan. This is a mildly fun thought exercise. 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 The forum seems to be down for weekend maintenance, but over on the official Mutants and Masterminds forum, there's a great thread adapting most of the iconic WH40k units into M&M stats. Compare and contrast with the numerous write-ups of other superheroes, either in official M&M products (they have a licensed DC Universe game) or from the many, many, many active Roll Call threads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 10/4/2019 at 8:00 PM, Ish said: You’ve apparently never read anything from their MAX, Epic Comics, or Icon Comics imprints... or you just didn’t realize they were Marvel. Epic Comics had titles like Jim Starlin’s Dreadstar; Marshal Law; Sachs and Violence; Christy Marx and Mike Vosburg’s Sisterhood of Steel; and the controversial Void Indigo. MAX gave us Alias, which was later the basis for the very grim Jessica Jones series on Netflix; Black Widow: Pale Little Spider; Supreme Power; and U.S. War Machine — which features a sequence where a Klansman forces a black hostage to eat his own lips. I still feel ill when I recall that scene. Icon Comics has Kick-Ass; Powers; Painkiller Jane; The Book of Lost Souls; and more... The entire imprint was basically a giant playpen for Brian Michael Bendis, Mark Millar, and J. Michael Straczynski. They aren’t going to be sticking WH40k into the same continuity as Captain America and Spider-Man (even though that’d be @&#%ing awesome). They’re going to be off in their own little separate product line. I own all of the Punisher MAX run (love them Bradstreet covers) and am well aware of their history. Have all of the early Scarlet series, I get what you're saying. I'm also well aware of their current "let's make everyone happy and piss no one off." Bendis is gone to DC. Millar's gone too. I get what you're saying but I'm talking CURRENT Marvel. Not their universe. Their corporate stance on things. "Hey we need to be more inclusive" and "let's change things because of political correctness" doesn't bode well for how things read out in the 40k universe. That's all I'm saying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 It's possible to be plenty grimdark without impacting diversity or targeting protected classes. Punisher, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage all did that very well in their Netflix series, just as one example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 It is possible. But I’m not exactly hopeful these days... Far too many Ta-Nehisi Coates types in the industry and not nearly enough Christoper Priests. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarlessllama Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I'm stoked!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I saw someone on War of Sigmar point out a possible secret weapon here: Dan Abnett has previously written comics for both GW and Marvel. Getting him back in that mode could be pretty awesome. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 On 10/6/2019 at 10:05 PM, WestRider said: I saw someone on War of Sigmar point out a possible secret weapon here: Dan Abnett has previously written comics for both GW and Marvel. Getting him back in that mode could be pretty awesome. I knew he did some Dr Who in like the 80s, and was involved in the War of Kings crossover event a few years back. I didn't realize he had such an extensive involvement, though, looking at his bibliography. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Abnett_bibliography 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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