New Player Infinity Question

[Mack]

The taking control of an enemy AI beacon with a minesweeper is why it gives a bonus on the up to 8inch range band.  At first I was wondering why they would have that if a mine would always detonate at that range. But that makes sense and seems to increase the usefulness of the equipment.

[Exile]

2 hours ago, Mack said:

Unlike throwing a grenade, which being an impact template can be "canceled" with a face to face BS attack.  The game doesn't go into what happens to the grenade, maybe I got shot and never threw it. This is because the impact template is not placed until after the resolution of all the orders. Even though minesweeping is considered a BS attack it will not have any effect on the placement of a direct template since that actually happens instantly. Also makes me have to reevaluate boarding shotguns. 

 

You have this half-correct, and this is one of the nuances of Impact templates;

 

In this shot, let's start by saying the Morat is in Active turn.  He shoots at alguacile A, and the MOMENT HE DECLARES THE TEMPLATE (IE, Using Blast mode, not AP), he places the Template in the field of play, to determine which models (In this case Fastpanda B, Spekter C, and Alguacile D there, all the way to the right, may be affected.  Mister D off to the right is behind TOTAL COVER, IE, completely out of LOF of the origin of the blast template.  He is therefore not affected by the attack, and is not activated in ARO (aside from a potential Change Facing) C, B, And A are all under the template.  Whatever they declare as ARO, they will be rolling F2F against the Morat's BS Attack, which will have a Target Number in this case generated by his attack on the Alguacile A (Likely a 15-18).  Their individual success or failures don't cancel the template, the template is only cancelled if the Morat misses completely.

 

2 hours ago, Mack said:

 

So if I have a unit that is expendable unit or one that can take a hit armed with type of direct template weapon (chain rifle, flame thrower, riot stopper) in the reactive phase, and I really want to get a hit on the active player is there any downside to waiting for the second short skill to make my decision to fire, dodge, what ever? Because if its anything other than dodge he gets hit by a reactive shot using a direct template right? That is the active player is still in LOS after the first order.

ARO's must be declared immediately, or delayed through A) some level of the Sixth Sense special Skill, or B) in reaction to a Marker state trooper.  You cannot just "wait for the second." The only troops that can declare an ARO against a second Short Skill are ones that Did  Not Have an ARO to the First Short Skill or initial Activation.

[Mack]

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the nuances of the template weapons. Its easy to miss some part of a rule or understand the impact of it on game play when just reading through the rules. I think I missed something on the ARO rules so I went back and reread them again. I have a couple of questions to see if I'm getting it. Sorry if this seems obvious,

Okay, using the above diagram, Lets say the Morat is the active player and it has used it's declared first short move order and has moved into LOF of the group of Nomads.  To keep it simpler the Morat is outside the zone of control of all the Nomads and armed with a boarding shotgun. As soon as the Morat resolves his first short move skill all the Nomads have to declare their AROs or lose their ability to do so (I think this is part of my confusion, if the Nomads that have valid AROs because they have LOF to Morat, the Alguacile and the Spekter, if they don't use their valid ARO at this time they lose their ability to respond no matter what else the Morat decides to do with its second short skill).  Lets say they both decided to declare a BS attack on the Morat.

After the two Nomads declare their AROs the Morat declares his,  and attack with his boarding shotgun in blast mode and places down a template. This new skill would provide a new ARO to all units in the templates path. This would be the fastpanda and the perhaps the rear Alquacile that is in cover. They did not have a valid ARO after the active players first short move skill but his second generates a new one. The Spekter did have a valid ARO so he has to use it then even if the second declared short skill or move would generate one. Then the actions are resolved. If the Morat fails his BS roll all the AROs generated by the attempted attack still are resolved right?

And to just make sure, if the Morat had some type of direct template weapon since it does not require a BS roll the Spekter and Alquacile would have to decide to either attack back and take a hit or dodge. After they declare their AROs the Morat is free to choose his second a BS attack, another Short Move Skill etc.  When I was thinking about the above example with the expendable soldier it only makes sense as a question if they are the active player.  I think some of my confusion was from looking at the Quick Reference chart order declaration steps, when  it says" declare AROs newly available due to second skill" , it doesn't mean it generates new AROs for units that already have/had a valid ARO.

This might not come up much,  but it would be possible to target an unconscious target with a impact template weapon to catch other units out of LOF in the attack template. I was looking at game that the board was set up more like a space station or something so just interior spaces and doorways in some areas.  Being able to project an attack far back into a room or hallway seemed more useful than on a more open board.

Thanks for everyones help 

 

[Mack]

So I've built all the models I picked up at the club garage sale but I don't want to get too distracted by new stuff. So a quick advice question on rounding out some of the stuff that is already ready to play. 

I'm not sure exactly what I want to play with Panoceania, so I'm holding off on getting stuff for them unless I find used remotes. It seems every Pano list I look at has a bunch of REMs so seems like a safe purchase if I find some sale. I'm leaning toward just a vanilla force to have some flexibility.  Plus I can then take a unit with chain of command (Kirpal Singh maybe) which frees using my lieutenant aggressively with one of the Heavy Infantry units I already have.

For Nomads, I have a full Corregidor Sectorial force, other than a proxy or two (if I take a mercenary ), I have plenty of options. As I'm slowly learning the game I see a big gap in my Nomad Vanilla line up of hackers and info warfare types. I was thinking about picking up the Interventor box as my next purchase. They look like a good choice, so spending a little extra for two sets of models seem reasonable. The other choice would be an older single Interventor model and a newer Heckler with a Fastpanda included. This option comes out  slightly cheaper than the Interventor box. Or, is the flexibility of the two units types such that I might want to pick up both the box and the Heckler?

Second, just thinking about the usefulness of a Jammer over other options for a Heckler. I've only had a unit in an isolated state once and it was sufficiently annoying to avoid it in the future. A Heckler has several profiles, does anyone have a strong opinions or advice on any of them?

The other unit I was interested in was the Uberhacker Mary Problems. Does she have a model?  If not, I could use the armed Interventer from the box set.

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[Sgt. Rock]

If you're going to run vanilla Nomads, Interventors are an excellent choice. Above average hacking devices coupled with a crazy high WIP in a faction with a ton of repeater coverage is a great combination. Interventor KHDs are brutal, and the Hacking Device Plus lets you do silly things like put White Noise on an Iguana and go hunt MSV units. I haven't used Hecklers, but I hear they're pretty strong; Even after they pop out of camo, they make fantastic area denial units if you place them properly, because nobody wants to get within range of that jammer.

Mary Problems doesn't have a model yet, but I've seen her used to devastating effect. @dataentity can tell you all about her, he plays Tunguska. He's actually probably much more qualified to comment on all three of these units than I am; I play Corregidor, we just shoot and stab things. My best hacker is only WIP 12. 😛

[Mack]

Thanks, I've been having fun learning the game with mostly Corregidor units. A lot of good, dependable units without being too overwhelming. Some of their flexibility has let me recover from beginner mistakes in deployment, movement, etc. The force does have Valerya Gromoz WIP 14, and a Moblie Brigada hacker WIP 13 and they both can be in fire teams. Maybe not as fancy or cost efficient as Tunguska. I haven't really used the hacking units because its just one more layer to try and figure out and make work on the table. A Bandit hacker still gets a surprise bonus when coming out of camo attacking  another hacker with an offensive program right?  

[dataentity]

Mary Problems is amazing. She's a little on the expensive side but, in exchange, is one of the best offensive hackers in the game. She also has a tool box kit. While BS 11 isn't great, she can fight in a pinch due to the ODD. Climbing plus is also very effective.

Yes, the Bandits (and any hacker coming out of camo) get the 'surprise shot' bonus.

[Sgt. Rock]

Yeah, the surprise shot on Redrum is what makes the KHD so devastating. Couple that with good close range firepower and strong CC abilities, Bandits are an auto include for me.

Speaking of Valerya, I actually use her a fair bit. I'm on a kick of 3 man fireteams because they're easier to maneuver, and my current favorite is a Mobile Brigada HMG, Valerya, and a Daktari. Compact, versatile, punchy, and easy to use. I cannot recommend enough that players new to sectorial run 3 man links to start, they make the fireteam rules so much easier to learn, and allow for better board coverage. Plus, it's often easier to put together the models for a 3 man to play with a sectorial, especially with the preponderance of mixed links these days.

[Mack]

Yeah, I just have to get better at using the bandit, especially the KHD. I've mostly used them to quickly grab objectives and then get away, but last week I got taken out by another killer hacker coming out of camo because I let myself get caught too close to a repeater.  I read a battle report from a game with someone that ran two bandits and an intruder. He made sure to keep one of the bandits in the same deployment zone as the intruder so when it moved forward his opponent didn't know if it was a bandit or an intruder so had to worry about both. I have to get better with being patient with revealing my camo units.

Thanks very much for the advice on the 3 man fire teams. That makes perfect sense and solves a problem I was mulling around.  I have trouble enough moving one or two models effectively, so I was debating if it was worth the hassle to run a larger fire team.  The natural inclination is to take the max number in a team to get the extra bonus. But I think any bonus would be negated by me stumbling into area effect weapons or having stragglers picked off. And a smaller fire team will make the deployment so much easier. I picked up a couple of extra Mobile Brigada so I have a few more options when I start using fire teams. That and I'm almost done with painting and basing my Gecko TAG, so I will have an extra Brigada for duo team if I ever use it.

@Sgt. Rock do you find you get the best use of a Daktari directly in the fire team?

 

Thanks 

[Sgt. Rock]

Yeah, that's basically why I started using 3 man links. I always leave some poor sod hanging out in the breeze to get picked off. I'm a big fan of the Daktari in the fireteam, because it gives her some protection when she moves around to where she needs to be, and she's right there to keep the Brigada and Valerya on their feet. Of course, she can't sit back with a ZondBot when she does that. But If you're really desperate for that, you can grab a Tomcat. Tomcat doctors are pretty great in their own right, and better fighters than the Daktari.

If you would rather keep your doc safe, you can try running Lupe instead of the Daktari. She's another specialist, but she adds a fun wrinkle to the team with a panzerfaust, a template, and smoke grenades. I have yet to try that combo, but I think I might soon.

[Mack]

 Another question that came up the other night about template weapons.  It came up when I threw a grenade in speculative fire that hit an area that had valid targets on different heights of scenery. The question that was kind of confusing was is the circular template spherical in its area of affect?  When I  looked it up later in the rulebook at home the illustrations added other questions. ok so this is the first example with a direct template at targets on multiple levels.

Okay so this makes it seem like the attack is a cone shape, the next example is from above

this one is kind of confusing is the first nomad unit that it misses in a building or on top of it?  Is this template representing a cone area of effect or is it a flat plane that can be rotated because thats just how the game works?  Just asking because I'm making an assumption of the level of abstraction for the game. Some of the other examples show the direct and impact templates being placed from various places on the model silhouette, which makes sense since any area can be targeted so can shoot from any area of the model area.

there isn't an illustration of the circular template and how it interacts with scenery and different levels. Intuitively it seems like I could hit the front edge of the building and place the template in such a way to hit both target silhouettes.  How is this resolved in the game? on a flat surface it works and I can follow the process, when terrain is added with varying heights I don't want to assume that I understand how the game resolves this.

Thanks again

[Mack]

Ok found my answers on infinitywiki, so my assumption appears correct that template weapons are 3D, so a teardrop template is a cone and a circular template is a sphere.

I wish the rulebook was just a little more clear at times.  I just have to get use to checking game errata and resources if something doesn’t seem clear. 

[Exile]

10 hours ago, Mack said:

Ok found my answers on infinitywiki, so my assumption appears correct that template weapons are 3D, so a teardrop template is a cone and a circular template is a sphere.

I wish the rulebook was just a little more clear at times.  I just have to get use to checking game errata and resources if something doesn’t seem clear. 

My suspicion, and the suspicion of people I know in the know, N4 will be more along the lines of refinement and clarification, tightening rules and interactions, rather than a whole-sale rework.

I'm just glad I never had to play under N2 Combat Camo rules. *shudders*