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Mack

New Faction Advice

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So I had a picked up two Infinity factions at the garage sale this weekend.  I now have the Ariadna starter and bunch of random Combined Army models. I'm just finishing building and painting the last of the Nomads that I own so in a few days I will be looking at starting a new project. I'm still learning the rules and figuring out what how to best use the Nomads I have so I would like to start workin on one building up one of the new factions over the next couple of weeks.  For Nomads I have a full roster for a Corregidor sectorial and maybe look at picking up a better hacker for a vanilla force.

I'm good with the Ariadna, I picked it up because I like the various commando units and the antipodes. So thats straight forward.

I've played two games against Combined Army and have looked over the army lists. I like a lot of the models and it looks like I can build an army that plays really differently  from my other factions. Here is my question, looking over the models I have right now from the sale I need some type of lower cost infantry unit. When picking up stuff I plan on just playing a vanilla force so I can throw whatever models I want to try out and see what stuff is fun to use. But if I have a choice between two "equal" units I would prefer to have something that would fit into a sectorial force i would want to play at some point. I was thinking about picking up the Morat aggression pack, I like the Morat vanguard models and I can use the handler for the Pretas I picked up. But looking at the sectorial lists I'm not as excited about the Morat Aggression Force sectorial. Its okay but it doesn't have any of the really interesting units of the faction. After looking over the army lists and models available I was thinking about picking this up instead.cvb280665-0500.jpg.9af9f8708ba387e826e283288cb73fcb.jpg 

The pack seems like it has more variety and all the units can be included in the Onyx Contact Force sectorial.  I already have another Umbra Legates, a Malignos, and a pair of Suryats. So I was thinking it would be a more versatile sectorial force than the Morats and I could still throw everything (pretas, witch soldiers, Sograt) into a vanilla force.  Also, is the only engineer option a Obsidon Mechanoid? This is a future project so any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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14 minutes ago, Mack said:

The pack seems like it has more variety and all the units can be included in the Onyx Contact Force sectorial.  I already have another Umbra Legates, a Malignos, and a pair of Suryats. So I was thinking it would be a more versatile sectorial force than the Morats and I could still throw everything (pretas, witch soldiers, Sograt) into a vanilla force.  Also, is the only engineer option a Obsidon Mechanoid? This is a future project so any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

I've been eyeballing the same box, to take my Shasvastii Expeditionary Force into vanilla CA.  It is, in fact, considered the OCF starter, as well as the current 'vanilla' combined starter.  One of the drawbacks of Sectorial forces that we discussed last night is limited profile availability.  For OCF, the only Engineer, and in fact the only DOCTOR available to them is the Dr. Wyrm, IE the Obsidion Mechanoid.  In Vanilla, you have a pair of other options, the Morat Kurgat engineer (One of the options here is a Portable Autocannon, one of the deadliest BS weapons in the game), and the Shasvastii Caliban (A Camouflage FD2 engineer, who unfortunately in Vanilla competes with a very -VERY- attractive Chain of Command; and/or a delightful MSV1 Spitfire profile).

 

 

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Both of those units are really cool. I've really liked the Nomads Tomcats, being able to get a specialist to an objective and have them actually have a chance of surviving for a bit is nice. The Kurgat looks cool, and any of the options for the Shasvastii Caliban are super useful. Having one weak unit as the sole means to complete a mission seems kind of risky. I noticed that several of the units have a specialist profile, does that typically end up being a useful or is it just a way to spend a few left over points and it just depends?

Two other quick questions on combined army:

If I want to include Hungries in a vanilla force I do not get the benefit of the control device, but do I still need a unit with it or can I just include Pretas and Gakis and they just go running off down the board? Also, in a sectorial force the controller can turn them into a fire team. If I take that option it replaces any other core fire team right? They become regular troops not impetus, do they generate a regular order or a irregular orders for their combat group? Looking over the Army builder I realize that some of my units that I have are beasts, but they can't be part of a fire team and their cost eats up a large chunk of points (Sogarat, Charontid).  Would a team of Hungries serve as a super cheap annoying force that would have to be dealt with at some point balance out these types of units? The first game I played my guy got locked into hand to hand combat and I had to watch as another unit was able to safely walk out from behind cover and blast me while i was tied up in base to base contact. So even if I know I will lose the fight, a Gaki might allow me to tie up a better unit for awhile and maybe even get lucky with a AP CCW or even an explosion when it loses for four points. Is that how I should think about Hungries:  annoying fast, disposable troops that tie down better forces for a turn or two, maybe make units have to disperse more than they want.

Also, with the explosion template of an unconscious Gakis, if there is another Gakis or friendly unit within the template is the attack considered null like other template weapons since I can't target friendly units? Also, the nature of template weapons would make it difficult or impossible usually for an Oznat hunter to fire their vulcan shotgun at units engaged with Pretas or Gakis right, because usually a friendly unit would be in the template.

Second a new model question on the differences in the newer model sculpts. Do the new Morat sculpts dwarf the older models? Not just how tall they are but they look a lot beefier. I know that there has been a steady size creep with the newer stuff and I don't think it is that big of a deal until I start mixing old and new models in the same unit type. Will old Yaogat and Suryat look like weaklings mixed with newer sculpts, and will new light infantry look more like my old heavy infantry? Just wondering because I like the old sculpts fine for Morats, but the newer sculpts detail look like they would be nicer to paint and have on the table. That and the massive line backer just seems like more of a Morat model. Thanks, I know this kind of question gets asked all the time and most of the time I don't think it matters much, but I think the new Morats have been taking steroids.

 

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Hmm, spending the evening assembling the last of my loot from the garage sale.  I finally got to the Hungries box...I was told to "have fun" building these..not sure if this is what  I would call fun.

Any tips or pointers so I'm not reinventing the wheel with these?

 

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1 hour ago, Mack said:

it just depends?

 

Welcome to Infinity.

Whether you take certain specialists or not depends partially on the mission load-out for the day/event/weekend/game/whatever; but also, and frankly more importantly, on how you compose your list as a whole.  Taking a TAG, or any large investment in HI and/or REM's?  Yea, an Engineer would probably be a good idea.  Not every Doc/Engi is a pushover too,  Haqq/Pano have HI doctors, YJ has a HI engineer, HI hackers with tricks are becoming more and more common, and as the game continues to evolve, new profiles will continue to be released.  Differing access to these different profiles and types are part of the overall balance.  Combined Army has a lot of NASTY things that no other army has access to, or very limited access. Part of the overall balancing factor is their limited access to Doctor.  Think about it on the big picture; the CA is just that, an Army composed of numerous very alien species, so the only doctor who knows how to do the job of fixing everyone, is one who has been genetically designed to do it!

 

1 hour ago, Mack said:

Two other quick questions on combined army:

J/K

Straight from the wiki, with some bolded additions:

 

HUNGRIES CONTROL DEVICE AUTOMATIC EQUIPMENT
Comms Equipment, Non-Lootable, Optional, Prior Deployment
REQUIREMENTS
  • This device can only be used in a Sectorial Army.
  • The bearer of this piece of Equipment and the Hungries must belong to the same Combat Group.
EFFECTS

 

If you want a fireteam, any fireteam, it needs to be in a sectorial, in this case, MAF.  A cheap team of hungries + controller can serve as a interesting... semi-autonomous missile, in a way, or as quite effective zone defence.  It is vulnerable in the same way any fireteam can be vulnerable, it's a large(ish) block of points that can be fodder for templates, and in the case of the hungries, its own templates can be its own enemy.  Contrary to the standard rules for templates, Explode can and does blow up on your own units, thanks to its Obligatory tag, and it not being an Attack.  Your Oznat could fire the Vulkan Shotgun in AP mode, risking the -6 engaged modifier against hitting your own unit. (But if it's a preta, who cares).

 

The Sogarat is going to look out of scale, because he's S5, not S2.  As for the old stuff, they're going to look different than the new stuff, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  Having a different armored dude will let you differentiate between different specialists, or weapon choices easier.

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Thanks for the reply. One of the things that I enjoy about the game is that each faction has a certain plays, strengths, and weaknesses. I've played too many games over the years that always had some dominant strategy or army that everyone played because it simply won games. Or that the game balance is constantly being adjusted so that every once in awhile half of my stuff isn't fun to play. I like that at least so far in Infinity a lot of the units seem like they would be interesting to learn how to play them.

Thanks for the clarification on some of the rules. Sometimes I find how the rule is worded or how the rule book is laid out kind of unintuitive. I can't imagine trying to figure out all the nuances of the rules without an having an experienced player to ask questions to, or not actually playing the game. Often I read something and it makes sense but I'm always asking myself if thats the correct interpretation. A few days earlier I was looking at the Antipode control unit, while similar they behave really differently in game terms and with a digital copy of the rules I only see one at a time, often days apart. And a grenade, mine, and explosion are all very different in how they behave in the game even though they all blow up. I just have to get used to going over every units profile more carefully to make sure there isn't a tag or keyword  I'm overlooking.  Thanks again for help.

Sorry, when I was talking about unit sizes I was meaning my Suryat Heavy Infantry. Mindtaker.org had a couple of used sets of Morat units, old and new sculpts. I actually like most of the models and its a good point that having different styles could also make it easier to tell specialists apart from regular unit members. I just bought a set of newer sculpt models and will figure it out when I'm actually looking at them on the table. 
 

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For cheap order monkeys *cough cough* its hard to beat the Imetron/Ikedrone blister. 

The Imetron are 4 point orders, and the Ikedrones are probably one of the most efficient deployment zone guards in the game, and occassionally can slag something way above their price point with dual light flamers.

 

Note on the timing of hungries explosions, it happens during the resolution step, so there is no opportunity for your opponent to ARO, its actually very nasty, careful with your model placement!)

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Thanks for the advice, I already have the Imetron and Ikedones on my watch list. With so many expensive units its nice to have a couple of cheap options.

Is there a good resource on Infinity model building? There is some basic stuff on the Corvus Belli website but not very helpful.  I'm looking for like a part lists for multi part models or something, and having only a box picture isn't always helpful.  I usually have multiple projects going at the same time and bounce around to whatever I feel like focusing on. Prep/build/paint.  The Hungries box seems to be extra annoying simply because there isn't really any documentation anywhere. I know that I can sit down and just play around with it and figure it out, but with so many small thin pieces I feel like finishing in one sitting so stuff isn't out with other projects.

In Corvus Belli models is it A+B parts or A+A parts. And it looks like I'm going to have to pin some of the parts unless I want to treat them like fragile porcelain during play. I'm impressed with the detail and the sculpt, but I wish the sculptor thought a little more about the assembly points. I've been trimming up tabs to form pins and CA glue with occasional two part epoxy clay for basing. Will that be sufficient for these Gakis and Pretas, or should I just plan on going a little "overboard" on securing them. With such fine pieces I don't want to have to hassle with reassembly after they are based and painted. One of my friends uses some super heavy duty two part epoxy mixes for some of his older, metal Warhammer stuff but it has always seemed like overkill for smaller stuff. I have just always found that with more challenging models I like having a clear plan before I get started so I'm not trying to redo/undo previous failed work.

I was thinking about the scale issue with some models. Its really only an issue with me because in the past I've bought and built historical models. Often I have to jump around to different makers to find models for various units. It has always been a pain to try and match sizes and uniform types of figures. Part of the appeal of those models are the research and accuracy, I look at a painted model and know what type and unit it is from the markings/gear/uniform etc. With smaller skirmish games its not as big of a deal and with a limited model selection currently units have to be proxied. 

 

 

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The key to remember with Combined, is that you are playing the good guys of the setting. All the other factions just want to bicker and fight, the combine wants to make everyone into one happy family.

😁

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I hate miniature games, I'm looking at what new stuff I want to pick up while there is half an army of stuff on my desk waiting to be painted. At least I've managed to get most of them out of the packages and assembled. Okay, maybe just the Combined Army starter or the Ariadna Antipode squad until I finish the last of my Nomads. At least when I'm painting a lot of stuff I can get my wet pallet and air brush set up and do a lot of the base work in an assembly line fashion. At least with skirmish games I never have enough stuff to get sick of painting the same kind of unit.

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i know its so hard to decide if I want a more "serious" paint scheme or crazy style for my Nomads.

I am basing some of my new miniature forces.  For some of my Combined Army and Ariadna forces I've been thinking of using plastic bases instead of the MDF ones. Are the new line of fire bases worth using?  I like the idea of them but I literally already a box of older bases and some other styles just sitting on my desk. 

 

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I've got some of the new LOF bases on the way, should be arriving any day now. I can report on them when I get them. If nothing else, y'all will see them at Rampage.

That said, if you have a bunch of the old ones laying around, they're perfectly serviceable. There are plenty of ways to get good LOF arcs painted on, from plastic gauges to templates you print out onto paper. Nothing says your bases have to be super fancy; my Nomads are on standard bases, with just little lines drawn on them to indicate firing arcs. It works.

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The new bases definitely makes line of fire easier. I'm probably still going to use resin bases because I like the extra detail without having to go overboard on greenstuff or flocking. Just means I need to get off my lazy butt and actually paint on the line of fire marks.

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I once saw somebody selling a little jig that you could put a 32 mm base into, masking off everything except for a small slit. A quick puff from an air-brush later, you’d have perfectly painted fire arcs.

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I have a quick question.  When I'm playing a Corregidor only force a Mobile Brigada is my only option, they seem okay and would be good as a member of a fire team.  If I'm playing a vanilla force they seem really underwhelming for their cost.  Not bad, just not very interesting.  I just want an opinion on the  other options.  I already have a Kriza Boracs model, its really expensive but it seems like I get what I pay for.  LT options, good skills, 360 vision,  full auto L2 and some hard hitting weapons.  The other option that I really like is the Taskmaster.  I've always liked the look of this model and it seems like it has a lot of flexibility. Red Fury, Crazykolas, and a tinbot deflector seems like it could serve a variety of roles for a lower cost.  At the lower point games, I assume that for most mission objectives sinking that many points into one unit isn't practical. I know most of it comes down to personal preference and the situation but do any veteran players have any good advice on their use?

In higher point games, how much support do heavy, expensive units like these need to be effective?  Engineers to fix damage from comm attacks and E/M weapons for example.

Also, is the only option for a Nomad deflector tinbots in the Taskmaster and Riot Grrls  boxes? 

 

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