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6 hours ago, paxmiles said:

For starters, your comments really feel like a witch hunt against my specific army

How you came to this conclusion from Ben's comments is beyond me. Narrative campaigns often have rules that differ from the rulebook. You're making it sound like every rule being put other there is a "gotcha!" rule put in place to hurt you or your army. It's clearly not the case, at least to everyone else. 

5 hours ago, paxmiles said:

I don't really want to play the army that you pick, I want to play my own army. 

It seems to me that the army you want to play (Wrath) doesn't scale down to 2k points. You were given to option to "make a case" of letting your Harbinger not be your general so that, when the game scales up to the point where you could bring in a Scourge, you could still keep Harbinger you had been building up throughout the campaign and still have your Wrath general. Isn't this what you specifically wanted?:

"I'd much rather my reoccurring character be a 200-300pt Harbinger, but the army takes a hit if the Harbinger is the general."

5 hours ago, paxmiles said:

I don't feel that I should have to "make a case" to play my army the way I want. 

What is the army you "want" to play at 2k points that people are saying you can't play? You said yourself that the Miser wasn't balanced for 2k and that you couldn't bring the Scourge at 2k.

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Managed to finish off some more Night Goblin Artillery to piss Ben off alongside my Doom Diver! 🙂 

Finished off these beauties!   

Here you go you big bully!   

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Hey most likely daemon player, I'll make the case.

A major point of customization for our army's characters is locked behind choose a 350-700 point (before upgrades) general. These character customizations are also unit buff and characterful design choices for how our units operate. (It's not just a Succubi squad it's a poison attack Succubi squad). 

 

Since this escalation does potentially lock us into a general I have. Addendum to suggest for daemons.

"Master in the Rafters: at game one of the escalation game, a daemon player may declare a greater daemon to be the 'Master in the Rafters' even if it is not and could not be in the army at that point level.

 

"With this choice declared a single Herald of Chaos in this army can gain access to manifestations related to that Sin if it is the general as though the army had a General of that Sin."

 

Again I'm not sure what the extent of "leveling up" the general would be, it might be crazy for a gigantic model to get those upgrades. But if the focus is on a retinue and a character let us use our Heralds as though they were marked at least until we put down a GD.

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6 hours ago, paxmiles said:

For starters, your comments really feel like a witch hunt against my specific army - which is not fun. I'm very close to dropping out, as I don't feel welcome in your "fun" escalation league which seems stacked against DL, while greatly favoring armies like the Kingdom of Equitaine.

Beyond that, sounds like you want to start at 1k. At 1k, I'd only have 400pts for characters, which would limit me to a Deceiver or a Harbinger.

 

To be fair, the Kingdoms of Equality-tane does enjoy a good witch burning.

But no, I am not on a crusade against your army, or you as a player. Do you honestly think that I am relishing in the idea of holding down a new player and elevating myself by crafting specific rules that eek out advantages for myself only? If I was serious about winning, I wouldn't be painting peasants.

These adaptations to 2k are fairly general concepts that I think most veteran players can agree to. Here is another curve ball, the winds of magic cards would probably be different, because again, the amount of magic power dice for a 4500 point game does not scale to 2000 points. These ideas are not mine, they are taken from other people in the T9A community who have a lot of experience running 2k games, narrative campaigns, escalation campaigns, ect.

1k? I dont think I mentioned 1k anywhere? I will be bringing a 130 point paladin on a horse. Heck, I may even just stick him on foot with the peasantry. His stats are pretty similar to a Chaos Warrior (core choice), so I don't think I am pulling the wool over anyone's eyes here.

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22 minutes ago, OreoGolem said:

Hey most likely daemon player, I'll make the case.

A major point of customization for our army's characters is locked behind choose a 350-700 point (before upgrades) general. These character customizations are also unit buff and characterful design choices for how our units operate. (It's not just a Succubi squad it's a poison attack Succubi squad). 

Since this escalation does potentially lock us into a general I have. Addendum to suggest for daemons.

"Master in the Rafters: at game one of the escalation game, a daemon player may declare a greater daemon to be the 'Master in the Rafters' even if it is not and could not be in the army at that point level.

"With this choice declared a single Herald of Chaos in this army can gain access to manifestations related to that Sin if it is the general as though the army had a General of that Sin."

Again I'm not sure what the extent of "leveling up" the general would be, it might be crazy for a gigantic model to get those upgrades. But if the focus is on a retinue and a character let us use our Heralds as though they were marked at least until we put down a GD.

Well put!

Z2f8DiL.jpg

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1 hour ago, TheBeninator said:

Do you honestly think that I am relishing in the idea of holding down a new player and elevating myself by crafting specific rules that eek out advantages for myself only? If I was serious about winning, I wouldn't be painting peasants.

No I don't. That's why I described your comments as making me "feel" a certain way.

2 hours ago, Andrewgeddon said:

How you came to this conclusion from Ben's comments is beyond me. Narrative campaigns often have rules that differ from the rulebook. You're making it sound like every rule being put other there is a "gotcha!" rule put in place to hurt you or your army. It's clearly not the case, at least to everyone else.

It "feels" like a witch hunt because each new rule proposed is a rule that hurts DL armies. As for it not being the case to everyone else, I get the distinct feeling that the other players are largely ignorant of how DL armies function - in fairness, they have a really weird army book by comparison to other factions.

2 hours ago, Andrewgeddon said:

It seems to me that the army you want to play (Wrath) doesn't scale down to 2k points. You were given to option to "make a case" of letting your Harbinger not be your general so that, when the game scales up to the point where you could bring in a Scourge, you could still keep Harbinger you had been building up throughout the campaign and still have your Wrath general. Isn't this what you specifically wanted?

I thought about "making a case" but I've already done that, a few times, in this thread and that is apparently being ignored. And I really shouldn't need to justify fielding characters that are appropriate for my faction at this point level. This "hero" level DL just isn't a thing - the DL rules just don't support Harbinger Generals. The Harbinger is kinda the General's assistant and has a very limited role without another type of character being the general.

As for Wrath, I dropped that idea a while ago because of the Aves limit and because I really shouldn't need him at this point level. Not sure why people keep bringing that one back up. My alternate selection was a Miser of Sululag, which is legal at 2k, but then that was also banned. And then it was suggested that I must play Undivided chaos or play Envy - at that point the campaign is picking my army. The equal for Knights Equitaine is if we banned Cavalry - it could be done, but what you can bring is really limited.

And hearing about "hero" level characters from the point of view of a Knights of Equitaine player really hits hard, since all their characters are hero level, and are really cheap, and have really good equipment at the hero level. So it's rules that restrict DL armies, but don't restrict Knights of Equitaine players. If you look at some battle reports for DL players, you'll notice that DL is a faction where the army is all about the characters.

And if you want to talk about Fluffy story armies. The plot of this adventure is that Chaos is leading an incursion on the realms of your happy-go-lucky races. Having a big scary chaos creature sounds entirely fluffy, especially at low point levels. Allows you a villain to rally against.

 

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@paxmiles

Not sure what to tell you. There are inaccuracies in the things you say, and I have tried in vain to explain them, but at this point I don't know if it matters so I wont bother trying again. You seem to have made up your mind already.

Ill pull myself from this exchange and spend my efforts on folks who wish to engage in constructive dialogue.

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13 minutes ago, TheBeninator said:

@paxmiles

Not sure what to tell you. There are inaccuracies in the things you say, and I have tried in vain to explain them, but at this point I don't know if it matters so I wont bother trying again. You seem to have made up your mind already.

Ill pull myself from this exchange and spend my efforts on folks who wish to engage in constructive dialogue.

Well... I've also tried in vain to explain my stance. You also seem to have made up your mind already and don't seem interested in constructive dialog.

Can you please remove me from that sign up sheet? I won't be participating in this escalation league. 😢

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55 minutes ago, Andrewgeddon said:

Anyway:

I finally signed up! Sorry it took me so long, heh. On that note though, I miiiiiight switch over from goodly Sylvan Elves to totally evil Warriors of the Dark Gods, since it seems to fit better with the theme of having a general with his retinue of troops from core.

Ok, so I do have a Elf list I can bring too with the models I have, so just let me know what you need! Happy to play the good or the bad guys 😎

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2 hours ago, Andrewgeddon said:

Ok, so I do have a Elf list I can bring too with the models I have, so just let me know what you need! Happy to play the good or the bad guys 😎

There are different kind of retinues then just sitting in the unit. I mean we can bet half the elves will end up on something large.

 

I'm commiting myself now to play daemons but man is a 15 boy boar boy unit looking like just the most fun.

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On 11/19/2019 at 2:50 AM, paxmiles said:

^That's what I'd be interested in playing. That sounds fun.

^this doesn't sound as fun, and keeps sounding less fun with each additional "surprise" modification. I don't really want to play the army that you pick, I want to play my own army. I don't feel that I should have to "make a case" to play my army the way I want. If that's really unreasonable, then count me out.

Just jumping in to stir the pot.....

I don't think it's a HUGE deal if a big super demon comes into a smaller game. Not all armies pair down well to smaller games, demons have always been a bit elite / funky. Your opponent will more or less know ahead of time what to expect. You just don't get to be sour grapes if they bring a couple canons 🙂 

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Yeah i think the decision to include a big ol daemon would open the flood gates though for folks to bring the twin cannons, and then all control is gone on keeping it friendly and chilled to help people learn the game at a smaller points level. I for one welcome the opportunity to mess around with core troops and “lesser” generals for a more thematic fluff driven campaign to help more people get into the hobby for sure. 🙂 

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I’ve a large WHFB Empire army which was made up of samurai and ashigaru from historical miniatures manufactures and not GW stuff. It’s been in storage back in Michigan, but I’m trying to make arraignments to get it shipped to me here... 

If that happens, I might jump into this league. Big, fat, monstrous creature sized “if” on that though.

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I trust we'll have an announcement that states in one place any special rules. (unless I already missed it)

The core Rulebook gives definition as to what can be in a Warband (3000 and less) (to those who haven't looked one big adjustment is all 0-X restrictions are halved rounding up, so only 1 cannon in I think all cases). Whether or not we will be using Flux Supplement''s Warband Flux Cards. Any other potential restrictions like Ben's allusion to a "only hero level characters".
Rules about the persistent campaign element (which I assume will be awesome). I've already suggested an adjustment IF a rule of "locked in" general proves cumbersome for Daemonic Legions (also Vermin Swarm players wanted to be General'd by a Vermin Daemon).
I post this mostly because I'd like to know where the organizers are in that particular process or direct this conversation towards making those decisions.

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9 hours ago, OreoGolem said:

I trust we'll have an announcement that states in one place any special rules.

That is correct. I’ll send out the campaign rules at the end of the sign up window on Dec 14. I’m still working on the rules modifications for the smaller point games. They’ll probably be something along the lines of what Auto2 suggests in this thread from the 9th Age forum but scaled up to fit 2k: https://www.the-ninth-age.com/community/index.php?thread/45910-making-ninth-age-scale-down-to-1000-points-warbands/

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Hey, WWizard or Ben, I have a friend who's just started poking his nose around miniature gaming. He's liked playing the 3 or so games he's got in, but his scheduling would make him a likely poor fit for an organized league. Just wondering if there's a low commitment option or should I simply suggest "hey come with us when you can and see if you can snag a game"?

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49 minutes ago, OreoGolem said:

Hey, WWizard or Ben, I have a friend who's just started poking his nose around miniature gaming. He's liked playing the 3 or so games he's got in, but his scheduling would make him a likely poor fit for an organized league. Just wondering if there's a low commitment option or should I simply suggest "hey come with us when you can and see if you can snag a game"?

If personally say bring them on board. As it stands, there are already going to be instances of people who cannot make certain weeks happen. I’m throwing myself in the pot of being odd man out if the case should arise. 

This brings up the question of what happens to your retinue or General if you have to sit out a scenario. Perhaps having a third track of “General has an excellent vacation” perk or some such to keep upgrades rolling for everyone. Again the concept is that win or lose, you get an upgrade, just the fluff behind the upgrade is associated with the win/loss/vacation or what have you. It’s all going to be random dice rolls (mordheim style), there are basically tables already made by someone else who has run one of these campaigns.

I don’t recall how the retinue stuff works.

also it’s worth nothing that I’m not certain there is a decision that your retinue unit or General can never change during the campaign. It makes sense that a Thane would be promoted to King, or a lesser demon grow up into something truly horrific. Just as your lists, things are mutable.

As for the retinue, perhaps the choice would remain constant, but could be filled out with new recruits and upgrade choices during every scenario. Again, I have to read up on how retinues “evolve”.

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1 minute ago, TheBeninator said:

This brings up the question of what happens to your retinue or General if you have to sit out a scenario. Perhaps having a third track of “General has an excellent vacation” perk or some such to keep upgrades rolling for everyone.

Your General is renowned for his cautious and pragmatic approach to warfare...

(If you won you last game) Rather than risk the lives of his men pursuing a risky break-through, he orders his men to fortify their position. He secures his supply lines, has his scouts reconnoiter the area, and confers with his closest lieutenants.

(If you lost your last game) Rather than rush off in an uncontrolled rout, your General’s level-headed stoicism has rubbed off on his troops and they withdraw to safety in an orderly fashion. The rearguard bravely holds on long enough for vital supplies to be moved, the scouts have already found a new safe camp, and his lieutenants rally their units keeping morale high.

So, give the player who missed a week whatever the “average” or “median” result would be had they played. Presumably there’s some sort of result chart, right? X for a Win, Y for a Loss? There should be a point halfway between X and Y...

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