Talapas Posted May 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 As for Tzeentch, the god of magic should have access to all magic lores anyway IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 If you read the liber chaotica for nurgle its details his worship pretty well. Nurgle is not the pestilence god, he is entropy. Disease is just a favorite tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Ah, I think I see where we are differing. Followers of chaos do promote death and suffering as a part of their worship. In my opinion, the followers see death as the eventual goal to be achieved through the spread of disease, where to papa himself, death is often just am unavoidable side affect. Also, you are using a very human centric vision of what life forms are valued. A twisted, deadly form of a microbe may be something you, and most humans, do not value, but on a purely scientific level, not much difference between us in the grand scheme of things. We are born, we consume, we kill, reproduce, then die. You value one type life more, because of your natural biases. You could argue that Nurgle values life even more than humans as he is constantly trying to create more diverse types of life. Just because they are microscopic, doesn't mean they have less value as living creatures on a cosmic level. LOL..... This seriously reminds me of the Blue Virus episode in the Clone Wars. And as I said, demented and insane. (I do have my BSN and helped tutor my fellow students in microbiology, but I won't go into how Nurgle's Touch is not a sustainable organism. It just devours everything in its path then dies off after it kills its host. Also sacrificing all other life to sustain one life form is an insane point of view. Very Nurgle like indeed. Papa would be very proud of you.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Couldnt agree with you more Talapas! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 I also could argue that a Virus is not a life form at all. It does not reproduce itself and is nothing more than a rouge DNA or RNA strain surrounded by a protein and lipid casing that invades cells and forces the cells to reproduce the virus till the cells ruptures spreading the virus to other cells. Aside from it containing DNA or RNA (never both), proteins and lipids it doesn't have any other trait that life forms have. But this is way off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talapas Posted May 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 I also could argue that a Virus is not a life form at all. It does not reproduce itself and is nothing more than a rouge DNA or RNA strain surrounded by a protein and lipid casing that invades cells and forces the cells to reproduce the virus till the cells ruptures spreading the virus to other cells. Aside from it containing DNA or RNA (never both), proteins and lipids it doesn't have any other trait that life forms have. But this is way off topic. But not all diseases are viral in nature. And bacteria are indeed living organisms. Also I could argue that humanity is an organism that is unsustainable as we too are devouring our host, Earth, though at a slower rate than the typical bacteria cell. As for being off topic. I don't mind as I enjoy spreading the gospel of Nurgle whenever I can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 No I can not let you spread the word of Nurgle. If Nurgle gets his way there will be no higher life forms to sacrifice. So just stop it. Praise Kaine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoslayer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 A Truthsayer is a Druid, druids are neutral, so I totally see a Truthsayer joining with daemons if the balance in his area is shifting to the side of good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerson Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 A Truthsayer is a Druid, druids are neutral, so I totally see a Truthsayer joining with daemons if the balance in his area is shifting to the side of good. BY MY BRISTLING BEARD!!!! It sounds like Mojoslayer is cavorting with all sorts of the wrong folk!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 A Truthsayer is a Druid, druids are neutral, so I totally see a Truthsayer joining with daemons if the balance in his area is shifting to the side of good. Shifting to the side of Good? We are talking about the world of Warhammer, right? Seriously though that is not how neutral works though. Might hate the expansion of cities nd civilization but helping beings that hate everything you love is not a wise idea no matter what. If you're Jewish you don't help the KKK just because they are in a fight with the Nazis. They are going to kill you just as quickly. Now if the Truthy guy lost his sanity completely then I can see it, but otherwise no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerson Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Shifting to the side of Good? We are talking about the world of Warhammer, right? Seriously though that is not how neutral works though. Might hate the expansion of cities nd civilization but helping beings that hate everything you love is not a wise idea no matter what. If you're Jewish you don't help the KKK just because they are in a fight with the Nazis. They are going to kill you just as quickly. Now if the Truthy guy lost his sanity completely then I can see it, but otherwise no. A True Neutral character or organization can be introduced as a Wild Card, neither aligned with the Hero nor the Big Bad. On the other hand, they may well be on one side or the other, at least nominally. Perhaps they care little for the conflict and have their own goals, which are neither particularly good or evil. A True Neutral scientist may work for the good guys because it furthers their research, but they may also work for the bad guys for the same reason. They could also be on whichever side their friends are, just because of that. True Neutral characters can seem somewhat selfish, but they can also seem rather happy-go-lucky in comparison to more responsible characters. True Neutral is the base alignment of animals, which prompts Druids to be of the True Neutral alignment in RPGs. Robots that do not come with an ethical system are also True Neutral by default (although this doesn't stop them having a personality). Muggles and Punch Clock Villains are often the "don't care" variety of True Neutral. Many Byronic Heroes fit True Neutral as well. A True Neutral is somebody whose first solution to any dilemma is 'what would a bear do?'. However, non-sapients and Blue and Orange Morality may be described as not being even True Neutral; this is done when one wants to emphasize that something can't be judged or described by our moral terms at all. from http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrueNeutral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 A True Neutral character or organization can be introduced as a Wild Card, neither aligned with the Hero nor the Big Bad. On the other hand, they may well be on one side or the other, at least nominally. Perhaps they care little for the conflict and have their own goals, which are neither particularly good or evil. A True Neutral scientist may work for the good guys because it furthers their research, but they may also work for the bad guys for the same reason. They could also be on whichever side their friends are, just because of that. True Neutral characters can seem somewhat selfish, but they can also seem rather happy-go-lucky in comparison to more responsible characters. True Neutral is the base alignment of animals, which prompts Druids to be of the True Neutral alignment in RPGs. Robots that do not come with an ethical system are also True Neutral by default (although this doesn't stop them having a personality). Muggles and Punch Clock Villains are often the "don't care" variety of True Neutral. Many Byronic Heroes fit True Neutral as well. A True Neutral is somebody whose first solution to any dilemma is 'what would a bear do?'. However, non-sapients and Blue and Orange Morality may be described as not being even True Neutral; this is done when one wants to emphasize that something can't be judged or described by our moral terms at all. from http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrueNeutral I get that much, but joining Demons for Any reason is insane. A bear is going to run like hell from a demon even if it has a fish for it because they are an antithesis to life. Even mages that call on Demons to help only do so because they believe they are in control. So if a Demon held the soul of the druid, or the soul of a forest, than I can see a Mage being coerced into helping them. But they would never willingly help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoslayer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Unless the daemons really are the harbingers of good, and we are just all fooled into thinking they are evil from those manipulative pandering elvish propagandists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerson Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 I get that much, but joining Demons for Any reason is insane. A bear is going to run like hell from a demon even if it has a fish for it because they are an antithesis to life. Even mages that call on Demons to help only do so because they believe they are in control. So if a Demon held the soul of the druid, or the soul of a forest, than I can see a Mage being coerced into helping them. But they would never willingly help. Meh I'm pretty steadfast in the argument that from a stand point of Neutrality that as long as ones' own goals are advanced its pretty irrelevant as to who provides the assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoslayer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Watch it Gunnerson, Murphys lawyer outranks you, which negates your steadfast. I for one am stubborn on the notion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 those manipulative pandering elvish propagandists. Pandering? We're pander to no one. Now fetch me some wine 'human'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 It's weird ive got this really old memory "shadows over Albion" from that campaign that out right says that Belakor had truthsayers working for chaos they were called Dark emissaries and forsake their life preserving powers to help daemons. Did I hallucinate this? Also this falls into the immemorial argument of fluff justification for items/units. Unless GW specifically says something in fluff its totally subjective and could be used to justify any permission or denial. That said, I personally do not like it and feel its a touch towards the higher end of the 3.0 spectrum (3.6-3.9) But that's my personal feeling and in no means is an indicator of a permissible list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkieft Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 How did half a page of this thread turn into a D&D alignment discussion... which is irrelevent in the Warhammer world? HeroZero, that sounds about right from my recollection as well. As i recall they were sorta restricted, but not entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Yup I'm not wrong straight out of the shadows of Albion off warhammer wiki. Amazing the crap this brain can remember despite the abuse I subject it to. Dark emissaries got fen beasts and worked for chaos , truthsayers got giants and were aligned with order. (Hell they are trying to do the old ones work for them. Yes those old ones, you know the big old original daemon haters) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 As I said before I am not that serious about my posts here. He can come up with something if he really wanted. I even gave a few examples too. It's just the whole Tau allied with SM discussion again. There is no real fluff reason for it to happen, but asking for a background story can be fun. In the end we all know why someone wants to ally Tau with SM, because it is powerful, not because there was a real fluff reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 See above for the age old fluff justification argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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