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Andrewgeddon

Warhammer 40K: 5th Edition Redux

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6 minutes ago, Munkie said:

And really, in the fluff, how often do we read about deepstrikes mishapping? Usually it's reinforcements showing up Johnny on the spot.

I’ve seen it referenced once or twice, but it’s usually in the context of a larger fluff piece about how the “present day” Imperium relies so heavily on ancient technologies that they no longer properly understand and are of questionable reliability... But we don’t need to roll dice to make sure our Imperial Guard Tank Squadron was loaded with petrol and not diesel, right?

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On 1/31/2020 at 8:19 PM, InfestedKerrigan said:

So which Imperial armor do I use for my Custodes?

The Warhammer 40,0000: 5th Edition Redux team is always looking for more codices writers!

If this was a real project, bringing in some of the newer codicies (Deathwatch, Sisters, Custodes, etc) in line with 5th ed rules and stats would definitely be a long-term goal.

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It’s been my opinion for years that most of the problems with WH40k and WHFB, across all editions, stems from GW using six-sided dice. This creates a fairly narrow band of possible outcomes and makes the “gap” between results seem a lot bigger than they would be with say, ten-sided dice. No easy fix for this, I’m afraid.

On the other hand, a lot of the issues with the Armor save modification system could be fixed rather easily just by tweaking which weapons have AP values... I’d say an across the board reduction of every faction’s basic small arm (boltgun, lasgun, shuriken catapult, etc) by one point of AP would be a good start. 

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3 hours ago, Ish said:

 

On the other hand, a lot of the issues with the Armor save modification system could be fixed rather easily just by tweaking which weapons have AP values... I’d say an across the board reduction of every faction’s basic small arm (boltgun, lasgun, shuriken catapult, etc) by one point of AP would be a good start. 

I agree with this completely, in fact this is one of my head rules for improving 8th edition without much upending of rules 

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3 hours ago, Ish said:

On the other hand, a lot of the issues with the Armor save modification system could be fixed rather easily just by tweaking which weapons have AP values... I’d say an across the board reduction of every faction’s basic small arm (boltgun, lasgun, shuriken catapult, etc) by one point of AP would be a good start. 

I'm not sure I fully understand this. To clarify, you'd be advocating a 5th edition AP system, but slightly worse AP values (i.e. bolters, shurikens, would all be AP 6) to reduce their effectiveness against light troops? Or an 8th edition AP system but with basic weapons having AP -1 to increase their effectiveness?

I read it as the former, but this

20 minutes ago, Inquisitor66 said:

I agree with this completely, in fact this is one of my head rules for improving 8th edition without much upending of rules 

 implies the latter.

 

I'm a confuzzled munkie...

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36 minutes ago, Munkie said:

I'm not sure I fully understand this. To clarify, you'd be advocating a 5th edition AP system, but slightly worse AP values (i.e. bolters, shurikens, would all be AP 6) to reduce their effectiveness against light troops? Or an 8th edition AP system but with basic weapons having AP -1 to increase their effectiveness?

I read it as the former, but this

 implies the latter.

 

I'm a confuzzled munkie...

I read it as the 8th edition ap... but with ap values universally reduced in effectiveness by 1 point.

 

I.e. bolters and Lasguns become ap +1, meltaguns become ap -3 etc... making save values more important and invul saves less valuable on armored troops

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Oh interesting, I hadn't thought about adding to saves...hmm.

My fear is it would just discourage the use of basic weaponry, and therefore troops. Everything else going down in power would definitely make saves more valuable, but people would shy away from basic troops.

 

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I meant the 8th Edition style armor save reductions, but with the values for most basic and special weapons reduced in effectiveness. But not universally and not making anything give bonuses.

My thinking is that the standard-issue, man-portable weapons like boltguns and pulse rifles shouldn’t be piercing the armor of the standard-issue infantryman... Boltguns would remain AP 0, but Bolt Rifles would go from AP -1 to AP 0, etc.

This was just a passing thought, I haven’t sat down and evaluated all 24,601 weapons in the game to work out the specifics.

(As for making Troops viable, my gut instinct is to go back to the days of only allowing Troops to score.)

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On 2/4/2020 at 1:11 PM, Ish said:

It’s been my opinion for years that most of the problems with WH40k and WHFB, across all editions, stems from GW using six-sided dice. This creates a fairly narrow band of possible outcomes and makes the “gap” between results seem a lot bigger than they would be with say, ten-sided dice. No easy fix for this, I’m afraid.

Way back when, I started doing some conversion work for "Warhammer 4d10". I think I might still have those notebooks around. Using the new Apocalypse system as a base for a d12 version might also have potential. The biggest practical issue is that it's more awkward and expensive to get d10s or d12s in the kinds of numbers required than it is for d6s.

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You’d need to change the underlying mechanics more than just swapping D6’s for D10’s... Probably something so that total unit size affected the number of dice rolled. So, like, a full ten-man squad might throw 5d6, but drop down to 3d6, then 2d6, then 1d6 as they take a casualties...

 

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1 hour ago, Ish said:

And some sort of special rules in place to allow those armies where it’s thematically appropriate to make some other units to either count as scoring (e.g.,  White Scars Bike Squads).

30K actually does this fairly nicely with their Rites of War, which let you break the FOC in various ways (and/or allow normally non-Scoring Units to Score), at the cost of having to abide by restrictions in other places. As with so many other things, the details are where the balance issues show up, but the basic concept is a pretty good one.

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14 hours ago, Ish said:

And some sort of special rules in place to allow those armies where it’s thematically appropriate to make some other units to either count as scoring (e.g.,  White Scars Bike Squads).

One of the things I really DO like about 8th ed Space Marines (and CSM) is the bringing back of Chapter Tactics. I could totally see doing something like that for a 5th Ed redux, where taking a chapter like White Scars unlocks Bikers as troops, or taking Iron Warriors gives you an extra heavy support slot, etc. 

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I think it was the Fourth Edition Codex: Space Marines that has the “pick your own” chapter traits system. They had preselected options for the official Chapters, but it allowed a lot of great personalization for players’ own creations.

I do like the way the current system allows for the otherwise “vanilla” Chapters to all feel and play quite distinctly different from each other. But I do miss the way the Fourth Edition codex encouraged original creations.

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I initially decided this was something that I wasn't actually going to work on, given that A.) Who has the time?, and B.) Who really cares? However, despite continuing to tell myself this, the idea seems like it won't get out of my head. SO, I've started to write stuff down, even if it's just for my own satisfaction.

Daemons seemed (to me) like a relatively straight-forward fix, probably because it was one of the books I actively played in 5th ed (along with CSM). Although it might be that the units that were released after 5th edition could be written into the book as well, but that seems to be a more intensive task that I might revisit at some point.

Link to what I currently have done and what I'm working on, for those interested:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ow9ehhl7zxflALFGx1mNOfdE3iiwZpau

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