My OFCC list

[AgentP]

So, I've gone through several potential armies over the past 7 months, as possible OFCC entries, including tomb kings and beastmen.  Well, it looks like I've ended up right back where I predicted I would be on the final day of 2013 OFCC - with a daemon army.  I just started painting a bunch of models, and I enjoyed it, so that's what I'm going with.  Don't fight the brush.  If the brush wants to paint the army, you play the army.  That's my philosophy.  Tonight, I bought the last of the models I needed.  Here is what I will be fielding:

 

LORDS

 

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, Lv 4, Lore of Metal, Wings, Greater gift, Lesser gift - I wanted a daemon prince for three reasons.  First, I had the model already.  Second, I'm not a big fan of the big chicken model.  I'm mounting my guy on the pillar of fire arcane fulcrum.  Finally, he's a lesser seen Lord choice, and I thought it would be good to use something off the beaten path for OFCC.

 

HEROES

 

Herald of Tzeentch, Lv 2, Lore of Tzeentch, Exalted locus

Herald of Khorne, BSB, Exalted locus, lesser gift

 

CORE

 

31 bloodletters, full command - I'm running this unit 8x4.  Why not horde you ask?  Well, you see, I love the warriors of chaos shrine model.  And I'm using it as a centerpiece for this unit, converting it to have a bloodletter on top, with the unit standard.  So I need to unit 4 deep to match the base size.  Would be better in horde, but will look cooler with the centerpiece.  

10 pink horrors, standard

10 pink horrors, standard

10 pink horrors, standard

 

SPECIAL

 

6 Screamers of Tzeentch

3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne, standard

 

RARE

 

1 Skullcannon of Khorne

1 Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

1 Soulgrinder, mark of tzeentch, daemonbane claw - I honestly expect this unit to suck.  I would be far better off with a second skull cannon or more bloodcrushers.  But again, I like this model, and I feel like I need a big monsterish thing.  

 

Overall I've tried to evenly balance Tzeentch and Khorne, my two favorite chaos gods.  I hope it will give a nice contrast on the table, with the sombre deep reds and bronze of the khorne units, compared to the Tzeentch units which I am painting with an airbrush in very bright, quasi-neon colors.  Gameplay wise, I think it strikes a decent balance.  It has fortitude 8, has a unit that can occupy a watchtower, participates in all the phases, has strong but not over-the-top magic, has a couple units to engage with and fight, etc.  It also avoids some of the internet love units, like beasts of Nurgle, etc.  I look forward to playing it.  Right now, it's about 1/2 painted.  I hope to have it largely finished by end of May.

[Iraf]

Looks good.

[HeroZero]

This is what a 3.0 daemon list looks like. Good job AgentP.

My most minor of quibbles: the crushers could really use a musician.

[MexicanNinja]

I love the list; however, I again have a question which pertains to the OFCC criteria.  What is considered an overloaded magic phase?  You have 5 casters.  I get it, 3 of them are pink horrors, but if someone were to have a level 4 wizard, a level 2 wizard, and 3 level 1 wizards they would probably get looked at harshly.

 

Overall, I really like the list.  It's not a hard one.  I think it could be extremely challenging to play against, once you learn the tricks of the army.

[HeroZero]

MN- its not total levels its context, lore and combo potential.

3 units of horrors, a metal mage and some more tzeentch while somewhat challenging is hampered by not enough dice to fuel, ease of dispel, and weaknesses of those lores.

On the other hand a lvl 4 light mage , war altar, and 3 lvl 1 light mages is going too far due to the combo power and strength of lore and scores would tend to skew higher (unless the rest of the. List was awful)

[MexicanNinja]

We'll agree to disagree on this one hero. All that magic could be devestating. Lore of metal isn't just about the sig spell.

[rudra34]

Unless you're rolling really high for winds, I don't see magic as being an issue here.  Besides, the rest of the army is very balanced, so you should have good games.  

[HeroZero]

We'll agree to disagree on this one hero. All that magic could be devestating. Lore of metal isn't just about the sig spell.

While I won't divert off on the relative merits of each spell lore, Rudra hit the nail on the head.

This will come down to a game of winds of magic and having more casters then dice.

8 dice per phase isn't going to blitz anyone.

 

It's a moderate powered list with.no serious combo potential. (Barring the extremely obvious aiban+bloodletters and cloak + crushers)

[AgentP]

The more I think about it, the more I think I may need to run Lore of Tzeentch on the daemon prince.  Here is my thinking:

 

The average magic phase will give me 7 dice.  The horrors  will be defaulting to blue fire (unless one unit gets lucky and rolls infernal gateway) , which is a 4+ to cast, meaning the horror units can single dice it and will succeed on 3+.  Also, the herald will be using one spell to default to blue fire, so there's another.  So there's 4 dice.  

 

That leaves me three dice to play with on average.  The daemon prince will almost certainly be using his 25pt gift on the wand of whimsey, so he needs to cast and dispel each turn.  The casting costs of Lore of Metal are universally high, ranging from 10+ on the default spell, and three others at 9+.  Lore of Tzeentch however has 4+ (default), 7+, 8+, 8+…  

 

I think the numbers are going to force me away from metal.  I'll have to experiment with this and see.

[MexicanNinja]

@Rudra and Hero-

 

Again, I am still going to disagree with you both.  I asked a specific question and didn't get an answer to the initial question.  I asked "what is considered an overloaded magic phase for OFCC".  Simple, nothing more nothing less.  I consider an overloaded magic phase to be lots of wizards on the table.  Which is exactlly what is in his list lots of wizards.  I could spam the sig spell from tzeentch 5 times and prolly destroy a unit with it.  If you get lucky, you could take out 2 or maybe 3 smaller units.  I get it, it's random, but that's not the point or the question here.  I just wanted to know what an overloaded magic phase is.

 

I could care two [big bad swear word]s less about the light council because they need a lot of dice to spam the spell twice.  That spell is only meant for monsters, MC, MI, and lone characters anyway.  Banishment isn't meant for large units.  So, telling me that AgentP needs a good roll on the winds of magic table is mute when you then follow it up with telling me about the council of light which operates off of 5 casters.

 

Now that the winds of magic table has been brought up, that table alone makes my judgement on all daemon lists tainted.  Even though it has the potential to wreck their own armies, there have been plently of games when I just watched my units fall apart before I even contacted the opposing army and by then it was too late because after 2 turns of the winds roll my army suffered great losses.  Then I also add in the facter that there is a chance after 3 rounds of grinding out combat there could be a double 1 rolled for a leadership test.  Yes, it isn't common, but when it does happen, that is usually game changing.  I get it, they could also roll double 6's and I take that into consideration as well.  Now for all the rest of the army: casue fear (at least) and have ward saves.  So, even without magic added to equation, I rate every daemon list higher than a 3.

[AgentP]

MN, in this and other threads, I can tell you really crave hard and fast rules for the OFCC comp.  But they're not coming.  It's not math, it's more like the artistic scores in Olympic skating.  There is no rule as to what is an overloaded magic phase, it's in the eye of the beholder.  This is why we're using 7 judges drawn from different geographic regions and gaming groups.  Herozero is our East German judge, obviously :)

 

As to daemon lists in general, I do not agree that they are all above 3.  There are no armies we are adding + comp to this year.  Although there are three, beastmen, tomb kings, and dogs of war, which are -comp.  No judges will be saying "just being from XYZ book makes whatever this lists is above a 3."  

 

Now, having said that, you may think this list is higher than a three on its merits, and that is a perfectly legitimate opinion.  I myself would say it's between 3 - 3.5 with reasonable arguments being made to place it anywhere on that scale.  Herozero thinks its a 3.  Others will certainly differ.  And at the end of the day the high and low will be tossed, and the remainder averaged, and that will be the list rating.

 

But at the end of the day, it's not Swedish comp.  You can't plug it into a formula and get a perfectly predictable numeric.  And that's by design.  I think it encourages thought, planning, and reflection into the list building process (as evidenced by all the list threads).  It also creates a democratic, and geographically diverse ratings process that reflects the community the OFCC serves.

[MexicanNinja]

Thank you for the explanation agentp. I just wanted an answer is all. I rated it a 3.5, so we are on the same page.

[Norrad]

Why only 7 list rating judges? With the expected high player turn out wouldn't a greater number of raters make more sense?

[Blustorm]

 This is why we're using 7 judges drawn from different geographic regions and gaming groups.  Herozero is our East German judge, obviously :)

[HeroZero]

Because even with 7 it will be a logistical nightmare more people compound that nightmare

 

Think of it this way:

100 players

Every list is read by each rater.

700 seperate views

Half rejects(omg can we be that lucky?)

50 more lists reviewed

350 seperate views with scores

 

700-1050 scores to average.

 

Now add more. It's going to make poor bronson go bald.

[WarlordGhrom]

Because even with 7 it will be a logistical nightmare more people compound that nightmare

 

Think of it this way:

100 players

Every list is read by each rater.

700 seperate views

Half rejects(omg can we be that lucky?)

50 more lists reviewed

350 seperate views with scores

 

700-1050 scores to average.

 

Now add more. It's going to make poor bronson go bald.

 

Umm yeah about that....you haven't seen him lately have you?

[Gunnerson]

I don't know him well and have only played him once, so , in jest, He had at leas as much hair as his Ogres did when we played at OFCC 2013!

[AgentP]

So, as an update, the RARE section is now painted and done - burning chariot, skull cannon, and soul grinder.  I ended up going with a Soulgrinder of Khorne for color scheme and continuity reasons. I've now turned to the daemon prince.  His pedestal on the arcane fulcrum is done.  He himself is 50% done, with detail work remaining.

 

Next up - finishing and basing the screamers.

[Raindog]

I played this last night.

 

The Daemon Prince and Flame Chariot are freekin' sweet. I love playing against beautifully painted models.

 

It is definitely an OFCC Daemon list, but it has huge potential. Once Bronson perfects his deployment and unit synergies, I think it will surprise opponents with a few neat tactics and tricks.

 

Bronson,

 

I will try to remember to bring those Daemon Models next week. 

[AgentP]

Thanks for the compliment RD, glad the paint jobs are turning out okay.

 

I'm now focusing on painting up the bloodletter unit.  I need to force myself to do some boring rank and file before any other bigger pieces.  I did, however, allow myself the treat of assembling and painting one of the new dwarf models.  But now back to painting red.

 

On the gaming front, my first game with daemons taught me that I have a lot to learn.  Deployment is going to be critical for this force, and I suspect terrain will have a big ability to screw it up.  I knew going into this that I had an overabundance of combat support, and a shortage of combat blocks.  I think success with this army will depend on proper placement of those support units and ensuring they reach combat and contribute, and thus free up the bloodletter unit.  I can't have that unit bogged down, it's the only thing doing the killing 

[AgentP]

Update

 

The bloodletter painting is coming along.  It's a relatively simple scheme, but more complex in execution than it might appear on the surface.  Here's how I'm going them:

 

Basecoat Khorne red 

Rough highlight blood red

Wash crimson

medium highlight blood red with slight tint from a mix of colors

edge highlight squig orange

red glaze in parts to tie together

very carefully and with a super fine brush, hit the raised dots on the back with bleached bone

Horns done in black ->mechanics grey -> administratum grey

teeth and nails in bleached bone with a brown wash shading

The swords are mechanics grey with administratum grey highlights, followed by the GW blood technical paint on the tips.

 

[AgentP]

I've had to make a change of plans.  My free time kinda got sucked dry with some personal and work stuff, so I don't think I can realistically finish the daemon army, as well as the Beastmen army for Seth by mid September.  As a result, I'm going to have to bring my Ogres again this year.  I have time to add in two new models however, and finish some touch up work on the earlier models, and give them some more detail work.  Here is my list:

 

LORDS

Slaughtermaster, Lv 4, Lore of Maw, Glittering Scales, Fencers Blades

 

HEROES

Bruiser, BSB, Heavy armor, Ironfist, Banner of Swiftness

Firebelly, Lv1, Lore of Fire, Dispel Scroll

Hunter mounted on a Stonehorn, Warrior Bane

 

CORE

(10) Ironguts, full command, Banner of Discipline

(8) Bulls, ironfists, full command

 

SPECIAL

(4) Mournfang, Heavy armor, Ironfists, standard, musician, Dragonhide Banner

(1) Sabertusk

(1) Sabertusk

 

RARE

(1) Thundertusk

(1) Ironblaster

(1) Giant

[rudra34]

Bringing a Thundertusk?  The list is accepted!

 

 

It's too bad that you can't bring the demons, but it is a lot of work to do on top of the beast project.  This list looks very balanced to me, it should be fun to play against.

[AgentP]

Slight alteration to the list, to give some modicum of protection to the hunter, and to include the rune maw, a.k.a. the "please don't purple sun me" banner:

 

LORDS

Slaughtermaster, Lv 4, Lore of Maw, Glittering Scales, Fencers Blades, Dispel Scroll

 

HEROES

Bruiser, BSB, Heavy armor, Ironfist, Rune Maw Banner

Hunter mounted on a Stonehorn, Sword of Striking, Charmed Shield, Opal Amulet

 

CORE

(10) Ironguts, full command, Banner of Discipline

(9) Bulls, ironfists, full command

 

SPECIAL

(4) Mournfang, Heavy armor, Ironfists, standard, musician, Dragonhide Banner

(1) Sabertusk

(1) Sabertusk

 

RARE

(1) Thundertusk

(1) Ironblaster

(1) Giant

[Kremmet]

Cool list, love the giant especially.  I'd keep in mind that the Rune Maw does nothing to Purple Sun given it's a vortex and doesn't target.  Just food for thought.