OFCC list submission dates

[AgentP]

I'm trying to decide on a list submission date for OFCC, and wanted to put the issue up for discussion.

 

OFCC is September 25-28.  We need lists submitted in sufficient time to give 7 committee members time to evaluate and rate over 100 lists (OFCC Fantasy may top 120 this year if projections prove accurate).  We then need time for people to be able to make alterations to rejected lists, etc.  And for everyone's information, the rejection rate last year was over 50%, mostly because captains submitted lists with no formatting, incorrect math, etc.  A small number were rejected on the merits and asked to drop units or reconfigure.

 

So, I think everything needs to be finalized, as it lists submitted, rated, rejected, corrected, resubmitted, rated again, and stamped approved, by no later than August 1, which would leave people 7 weeks to paint something that had to change due to the list rating process.  And that's cutting it close, so I think August 1 is the drop dead date to have it done.

 

In my experience, it takes 2 weeks for the lists to dribble in, because last year in addition to a 50% rejection rate, over 33% were submitted late.  That was one of the reasons for adding a firm penalty to tardiness this year (see the rules pack).  Also, this year will require an enormous effort by the ratings committee, as each person must individually rate each list without consultation to the other members of the committee.  This will be fantastically time consuming, so I think we need at least 4 weeks for the initial rating process.  

 

Then (again based on experience) there is usually a 2-4 week back and forth with captains about rejected lists, reformatting, etc.  Last year there were problems with emails being received, etc.  

 

So, at the end of the day, I'm thinking of having OFCC lists be due June 1, 2014.  With the goal that initial ratings would be done by July 1, 2014.  And corrections, resubmissions, and finalizations be nailed down by August 1.

 

But that means people would have to get this [bleep] in order in the next four weeks, get their teams, get their lists, etc.  That may not be possible.

 

Let the community discussion begin.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Four weeks to finalize a list should be no issue as long as captains start to shake down their team members.

 

Also is there going to be a way for Captains to communicate in a forum? And do you have a list of the captains? If the Captains have their S@!# together and take the list submission mildly serious 4 weeks could work. Or at least get the bulk in so the stragglers won't hurt so bad.

 

So my opinion is if Captains are contacted and given a deadline now it shouldn't be impossible. (I just need to contact one team member and I can get my team on this.)

[Drak]

that seems really early, that being said I've had a list planned since last Oct so I don't mind, and our team could use a kick in the pants to get back into the hobby.

[MexicanNinja]

When will the scenarios be completed?  I know there are some people who make lists based on the scenarios.

[Swan-of-War]

Sorry for being dense, but where is the post on how you want lists formatted? 

Or should I ask my captain?

[HeroZero]

They should be formatted using only mathematical expressions of function.

No seriously that's a good question swan. Inquiring captains want to know.

[Norrad]

That is waaaaay tooo early!  My teams are still trying to figure out whos on what team, find an 8th player and finalize what armies we are taking.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

That is waaaaay tooo early! My teams are still trying to figure out whos on what team, find an 8th player and finalize what armies we are taking.

Wait, each captain only has a four man, and women in my teams case, to get it together.

 

Figuring out armies is easy, and if two want to play Dark Elves have them find an easy way to figure it out.

 

All that can be worked out in an hour over beer and pizza. When the armies are picked building a list will take an other hour before getting feed back than another hour finalizing it.

 

This is the easy part if you keep in contact with team members. Building, Painting and getting practice games is the hard part.

 

Just get solid captains to lead and it will get done way faster than you think. Trust me.

 

First OFCC for me but I have done tournaments before. With teams Communication is Super important, and when you do that it becomes easy. And if someone flakes hard give them a nudge and let them know if they want to play they need to decide if they will get it together or be replaced. (Small hints of course. But if someone has that big of an issue deciding an army they will never get their army painted.)

[MexicanNinja]

Wait, each captain only has a four man, and women in my teams case, to get it together.

 

Figuring out armies is easy, and if two want to play Dark Elves have them find an easy way to figure it out.

 

All that can be worked out in an hour over beer and pizza. When the armies are picked building a list will take an other hour before getting feed back than another hour finalizing it.

 

This is the easy part if you keep in contact with team members. Building, Painting and getting practice games is the hard part.

 

Just get solid captains to lead and it will get done way faster than you think. Trust me.

That's not as easy as you think murphy.  Here's the simplest example I could think of:

 

Two players want to play a certain army.  One of them just put a lot of time into modeling and the other doesn't have the money to purchase another army and doesn't want to learn another army.  It happens bro, some things need to be worked out.  What if you have a certain palyer who's been commited to the team for over 5 months and then is told he/she needs to play a different army because they were short a player and the player they found only has 1 army.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

That's not as easy as you think murphy.  Here's the simplest example I could think of:

 

Two players want to play a certain army.  One of them just put a lot of time into modeling and the other doesn't have the money to purchase another army and doesn't want to learn another army.  It happens bro, some things need to be worked out.  What if you have a certain palyer who's been commited to the team for over 5 months and then is told he/she needs to play a different army because they were short a player and the player they found only has 1 army.

Oh I hear you. I wanted to do Dark Elves and have been building and playing them since Sept. Even had you help me learn them. Then I found out I was made Captain and the new guy who was going to play Chaos Dwarfs changed his mind and bought a painted Dark Elf army.

 

FACE PALM!

 

I also was made Captain and told that the same day. So as the more Veteran player, he really is new, I backed down and now going with Empire. I did not plan this or wanted this. But someone had to suck it up and make a decision. Bam, job done in 10 minutes.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Let's be very honest with ourselves here. This part of the process only seems hard because starting anything seems really intimidating before you begin. Once the team starts it moves along really fast.

 

If AgentP said teams have till Sept 1st to turn their lists in on Aug 18th captains will be complaining they don't have enough time to get them in. So saying next month is only intimidating because captains Will Have To Initiate Things, because their team members won't.

 

And as we are being honest putting a list together should not take anyone more than a couple of hours when they put their mind to it. It is the fact this will be a final decision they will have to make and those are hard. That is where the captain should be there to help them with them feeling confident about their decision. (If this sounds like child psychology it is. But Adult psychology is built on it too.)

 

The Captain's job is to take on 75% of the initiative to get things done. Kind of like doing a project in college. If one person doesn't step up to get the group going it won't get done till 3 hours before class and it will suck. Being a captain is not just sitting back and letting team members do things as they will, in my opinion, but is actively helping them along.

 

(That reminds me that I have to talk to Josh and get my other team member's number to see how he is doing.)

 

That is why I would like to see a thread for captains to talk and help each other get their teams in line and ready. Also if there is a conflict of mutable army's being taken in a team Captains can discuss with other captains to see if a member can switch with another team if the players agree. Just a thought.

[MexicanNinja]

Short reply: It's only as hard as you make it....giggidy giggidy!

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Short reply: It's only as hard as you make it....giggidy giggidy!

Word.

[godswearhats]

Did this get decided? June 1st is pretty brutal for us Wood Elf players ...

[Gunnerson]

Oh I hear you. I wanted to do Dark Elves and have been building and playing them since Sept. Even had you help me learn them. Then I found out I was made Captain and the new guy who was going to play Chaos Dwarfs changed his mind and bought a painted Dark Elf army.

 

FACE PALM!

 

I also was made Captain and told that the same day. So as the more Veteran player, he really is new, I backed down and now going with Empire. I did not plan this or wanted this. But someone had to suck it up and make a decision. Bam, job done in 10 minutes.

 

 

Not quite that easy for some of the teams. There are a couple of teams/clubs that are larger and are actually submitted as "Team Go 1" ,"Team Go 2", "Team Go 3" and so on. For those club teams a bit more planning is required in order to make sure all the members get on a team and that the armies compliment the unique army requirement. We have several people that play locally but live in outlying areas as a result there can be difficulty armies and players assigned where they need to be.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

What if you turn in your list by June 1st there is some incentive to get players to start off and have a final deadline be July 1st.

 

This should be more than enough time for everyone and of half of the lists get in by June 1st the committee has something to start with.

 

Everyone has to remember us players only have to look over one list, ours. They have to look at many lists in a short time to keep you players happy.

 

Also this is a fun event so you don't have to Mathhammer the perfect list together. Just ale something you wanted to play. Takes much much less time than a tournament list would.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Not quite that easy for some of the teams. There are a couple of teams/clubs that are larger and are actually submitted as "Team Go 1" ,"Team Go 2", "Team Go 3" and so on. For those club teams a bit more planning is required in order to make sure all the members get on a team and that the armies compliment the unique army requirement. We have several people that play locally but live in outlying areas as a result there can be difficulty armies and players assigned where they need to be.

I still firmly believe if captains got things going Now they can have teams worked out in a couple hours If players can be contacted. This isn't hard stuff. It's a game that most of us have made hundreds of lists for and this one isn't that much different.

 

The key is to get started by getting a meeting going.

 

Team Left Overs, or Sloppy Seconds got their team organized and worked out in very little time on the forum and knowing them they will have their lists in before my team. Maybe even the first team to get it in.

 

Don't see why other teams would have it more difficult than the kids that didn't get picked for a team.

[Munkie]

It's not necessarily about building the perfect list, and more about figuring out where it is relative to other ofcc lists. Having somebody get stuck with an unexpectedly powerful list because they didn't have enough time to play test and tone it down isn't good for anyone.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Well I guess I am curious. Are the Captains out there getting it together?

 

I keep hearing reasons for "possible" issues but only one that is a concern for themselves. AgentP asked about a possible date and no one has said "I am talking to my team and I have found that I am having X problem." Everyone is just throwing out hypotheticals.

 

This thread has been up for several days now and the discussion is still a vague "nah" from most people. Are there captains here saying they are having a specific issue? If so let's talk and get it figured out.

 

If people are just saying they don't want a date set yet because they haven't done anything yet than I ask why not get started?

[Drak]

I'm beginning to think you live here in the forums Jon :)

 

our teams issue is one of the players wants to go WE but we don't even know where to begin on helping him put together a list.

 

that and several of them are wishy-washy (almost think we should rename our team to this) as to what army they think they could have ready in time. so a date would help that aspect.

[MexicanNinja]

Well I guess I am curious. Are the Captains out there getting it together?

 

I keep hearing reasons for "possible" issues but only one that is a concern for themselves. AgentP asked about a possible date and no one has said "I am talking to my team and I have found that I am having X problem." Everyone is just throwing out hypotheticals.

 

This thread has been up for several days now and the discussion is still a vague "nah" from most people. Are there captains here saying they are having a specific issue? If so let's talk and get it figured out.

 

If people are just saying they don't want a date set yet because they haven't done anything yet than I ask why not get started?

Perhaps they don't want to blast what is going on with their team to everyone else on here.  That is respectable.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I'm beginning to think you live here in the forums Jon :)

 

our teams issue is one of the players wants to go WE but we don't even know where to begin on helping him put together a list.

 

that and several of them are wishy-washy (almost think we should rename our team to this) as to what army they think they could have ready in time. so a date would help that aspect.

I live alone and like to read while I sit around the house and on my work breaks. I am a sad sad man.

 

But I hear the Wood Elf issue. And Raindog and the gang know about it. But that's why I suggested two dates. One Soft Date and one Hard Date. 

 

We all know many are going to procrastinate till the last moment so we need to be kicking ourselves a little to get going. The Senate knows all about the issues that might arise and that is why I heard that Captains were going to be held more responsible this year. And if someone comes in with a legitimate problem I am sure they will work with them. But waiting to set a date and giving Everyone till later will be stupid and ended up with many arguments about how they have no time to redesign their list or things like that.

 

Didn't they have a huge issue last year with most of the lists being turned in with bad math, bad format and other issues that most had to turn in a second list? And they were given plenty of time. Are we now saying that this year will be different if we have a later date or will most just use that extra time to procrastinate? I know Humans very well and I am guessing the latter. 

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Perhaps they don't want to blast what is going on with their team to everyone else on here.  That is respectable.

That's why I would love a subforum for this kind of stuff. Somewhere where Captains and Senators can discuss and fix these problems without everyone knowing what is happening.

[savion47]

That's why I would love a subforum for this kind of stuff. Somewhere where Captains and Senators can discuss and fix these problems without everyone knowing what is happening.

We are discussing it now.

[MexicanNinja]

That's why I would love a subforum for this kind of stuff. Somewhere where Captains and Senators can discuss and fix these problems without everyone knowing what is happening.

It will all work itself out man.  Some things happen without the masses knowing.

 

Example: Do you tell your kid everything that is going on which he may think he needs to know?