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Bloated Toad

Is this really that dumb????

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It's been a LOOOONG time since I have played 40k, multiple editions have now come and gone since my Eldar passed on to a new home.  I am ready to dive back in, but am uncertain what I want to do.  I had originally planned a Tau force consisting almost entirely of Hammerheads and Fire Warriors in Devilfish.  Mobile infantry.  I believe that I have moved on from that.  I didn't think it possible, but I am actually going to build a smurf force.  The question is, what sort.  I have a vision.  I am not sure it is a wise one, but unless it is one that would be a total disaster I am going to move forward with it.  What does Ordo think, does this look like a viable force?

Detachment #1

HQ

75pts   Primaris Lieutenant, MC Stalker

Troops

101pts  5 Intercessor, Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Chainsword

101pts  5 Intercessor, Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Chainsword

101pts  5 Intercessor, Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Chainsword

 

Detachment #2

HQ

63pts   Naked Lieutenant

63pts   Naked Lieutenant

Troops

105pts   5 Scout Snipers, Cloaks, Missile Launcher

105pts   5 Scout Snipers, Cloaks, Missile Launcher

105pts   5 Scout Snipers, Cloaks, Missile Launcher

105pts   5 Scout Snipers, Cloaks, Missile Launcher

129pts   8 Tactical Marines, Missile Launcher

126pts  8 Tactical Marines, Plasma Gun, Melta Bomb, Power Sword

Transports

74pts    Rhino, 2 Bolters

74pts    Rhino, 2 Bolters

Flyer

174pts   Storm Talon, Twin Assault Cannons, 2 Heavy Bolters

Heavy Support

158pts   6 Devastators, 2 Missiles, 1 Lascannon, Cherub

158pts   6 Devastators, 2 Missiles, 1 Lascannon, Cherub

183pts   6 Devastators, 2 Missiles, 2 Lascannons, Cherub

Total---- 2000 points

Yes, I know my armor is garbage, and the poor Talon WILL die every game, probably early.  But would this be even somewhat feasible?  I just want to blow stuff up and cause havoc, I know this isn't going to be a tremendously flexible force that I can win tons of games with.  I just want to pew things.  Is this the sort of thing no one will want to play against?  Hoping I have the points right....

What say ye????????

 

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I'm not sure what detachments you are trying to make. Detachment #1 is a Patrol Detachment, but gives 0 CP. Detachment #2 is a Battalion Detachment, Which will give you +5 CP. Being Battle Forged, you'll get another +3 CP for a total of +8 CP. I'd say try and make Detachment #1 into another Battalion, so you will have a total of +13 CP. Yes, you will need that many CP. There are too many great Strategems for Ultramarines not to have as many CP as you can get.

A few thoughts on your army:
Space Marines are all about tactical flexibility and synergy. Ultramarines have a army wide +1 LD, and the ability to fall back from close combat and still shoot (at -1 BS). There are Combat Doctrines now- Devastator (improve heavy and grenade AP by 1), Tactical (Rapid Fire and assault AP by 1) and Assault (Pistol and melee AP by 1). Turn 1 Devastator. T2 Tactical, and T3 is Assault (recently FAQ'ed). The Ultramarines have a start that allows them to stay in Tactical for one extra turn. You might want to play into that changing doctrine every turn by taking units that will excel in those turns. Eighth Edition is all about specialization. 

I could go on for a long time about playing Ultramarines, especially Primaris Marines (my current army). Basically, your army is NOT durable. a 3+, 4 toughness and 1 wound is not very good considering the large amount of basic weapons in the game with strength 4 AP-1. There are a TON of weapons in the game now that are -2 AP or better. Missile Launchers are WAY overpriced due to their "flexibility". They don't do enough vs. horde armies or big stuff. Specialization is much more efficient. The Bolt Rifle is RF1, and you get x2 shots if you stand still, or are within 15" of the enemy. A five man squad of Intersessors with Bolt Rifles can put out a lot of firepower. A couple squads of them can deal with hordes of just about anything. You want Melta or Lascannons for the big stuff. Space Marine Scouts have a fantastic ability to target characters with Sniper Rifles, and those Sniper Rifles are one of the few units that can deal mortal wounds. Scouts without Sniper Rifles but with Cloaks are a bit... well, cover has changed a lot, and unless the Scouts stay in cover, the cloaks will give them no benefit. The Rhino's aren't bad. They give you some maneuverability to scoot over and take objectives, or give you mobile line of sight blocking terrain.

The Talon... I used to play with one, but man, it's far too easy to kill, even with the -1 to hit it. It's too expensive for any role you give it. BUT there was one or two games when my opponent brought something that could fly, and it was worth it's points. Otherwise... meh. If you like it for the cool factor, then heck yeah! Keep it!

As you said, not very flexible, and doesn't really play into any of the strengths of the Ultramarines. Play against it? Sure! Why not?

 

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Just a comment of Doctrines.  On turn 3 you can chose to stay in tactical doctrine or move to assault doctrine.  On turn 4 you are forced to assault doctrines.

 

The camo cloaks are a wasted option, IMO, if you don't have sniper scouts.

 

For transports, I'd suggest razorbacks with assault cannons.  You get a transport to hide characters from turn 1 snipes and a nice horde clearing option.

 

I would also look into a captain and spend a CP to make him a chapter master for re-rolls for hits (as a blood angel player it pains me that my only option is Dante for those re-rolls).

 

However, with all that said, they are your 'toys' and play them however you wish.

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Oops, I forgot to actually put the sniper part on the scouts descriptions.  They are all supposed to be sniper scouts, I guess that would help any discussions.  
 

I played 2nd through early 6th, and haven’t really touched the game since.  I will have to sort out the CP thing.  I just found out about the forced doctrine changes, that is a bummer.  
 

Would I be better switching the Devs to more Lascannons and less Missiles?  They are the same cost, of it’s worth it I would totally be good going that route.  I’ll already have four missiles on the scout units, if they are meh I’ll start switching things up.  
 

I appreciate your input, it’s weird feeling like a newb....

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I only started with 8th, but I like missile launchers in tactical squads, especially for a 5-man team that might just camp a backfield objective all game. That way they can still reach out and do some damage to either hard or very soft targets. With my collection as it stands at the moment I find some lists I can field light on heavy weapons, so they shore that up a little also.

@Bloated Toad Definitely look at arranging your list for the most CP you can possibly get. Maybe check out the Indomitus Crusaders strat from the Vigilus Defiant book, or the character promotions from Psychic Awakening: Faith and Fury. I’ve been running a Master of Sanctity and Chief Librarian and loving the added capabilities.

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I’ve found Aggressors to be incredible, but since I play Imperial Fists they might not be as effective for Ultramarines as they are for the sons of Dorn... So no special boltgun shenanigans for you. 

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17 minutes ago, Bloated Toad said:

Indeed I am.  Starting to play with my sons, I reckon it’s time to get some plastic army men on again!   Really looking forward to WFB coming back as well, I do very much miss gaming...

Awesome! You still in Vancouver?

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Ok, did some fiddling, changed a couple point costs to the lower current ones, and still have no real idea what I'm looking at.  Is this better or worse?  I like Telion, I suppose I will have to have him, which means this is now Ultramarines...

Detachment #1

HQ

96pts   Primaris Captain, MC Stalker, Power Sword

Troops

96pts  5 Intercessor, Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Chainsword

96pts  5 Intercessor, Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Chainsword

96pts  5 Intercessor, Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Chainsword

 

Detachment #2

HQ

77pts    Captain, MC Blowgun

65pts   Telion

67pts   Lieutenant, Power Sword

Troops

105pts   5 Scout Snipers, Cloaks, Missile Launcher

105pts   5 Scout Snipers, Cloaks, Missile Launcher

105pts   5 Scout Snipers, Cloaks, Missile Launcher

129pts   8 Tactical Marines, Missile Launcher

100pts  6 Tactical Marines, Plasma Gun, Melta Bomb, Power Sword

Transports

74pts    Rhino, 2 Bolters

116pts  Razorback, Twin Assault Cannons, Storm Bolter

Flyer

174pts   Storm Talon, Twin Assault Cannons, 2 Heavy Bolters

Heavy Support

158pts   6 Devastators, 2 Missiles, 1 Lascannon, Cherub

158pts   6 Devastators, 2 Missiles, 1 Lascannon, Cherub

183pts   6 Devastators, 2 Missiles, 2 Lascannons, Cherub

Total---- 2000 points

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Ok, here's where I'm currently at.  Just found out that apparently most of my point values were a little off, I hope I am now using correct values.  I am trying to decide where to shuffle a the remaining points to, I am kicking around a second Razorback instead of the Rhino, which will eat much of it, then it will probably just be padding units and items for the HQs.

 

Detachment #1

HQ

65pts   Telion

Troops

98pts   5 Scout Snipers, Cloaks, Missile Launcher

98pts   5 Scout Snipers, Cloaks, Missile Launcher

98pts   5 Scout Snipers, Cloaks, Missile Launcher

 

 

Detachment #2

HQ

96pts   Primaris Captain, MC Stalker

Troops

86pts  5 Intercessor, Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

86pts  5 Intercessor, Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

86pts  5 Intercessor, Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

86pts  5 Intercessor, Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

151pts   10 Tactical Marines, Missile Launcher, Combi-Plas

103pts  6 Tactical Marines, Plasma Gun, Melta Bomb, Power Sword, Combi-Plasma

Transports

69pts    Rhino, 2 Bolters

116pts  Razorback, Twin Assault Cannons, Storm Bolter

Flyer

164pts   Storm Talon, Twin Assault Cannons, 2 Heavy Bolters

Heavy Support

125pts   6 Devastators, 4 Heavy Bolters, Cherub, Storm Bolter

173pts   6 Devastators, 2 Missiles, 2 Lascannon, Cherub

173pts   6 Devastators, 2 Missiles, 2 Lascannons, Cherub

Total---- 1934 points

 

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@Bloated Toad

Have you thought about an ancient with the relic upgrade that lets you shoot or fight on a 3+ after your model dies?

If you needed points, I'd suggest dropping the devs to 5 man squads.

I'd also agree that a razorback with assault cannon over the rhino is a better option.  Razorbacks with assault cannons need to be dealt with and could potentially pull target priority from other units.

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