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40K 9th ed


KennyD76

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I feel that the Dark Eldar (all the xenos, really, but the Dark Eldar most of all) are just gonna have to once again “suck it up” for a year and a half until GW finally pushes out a codex for them.

But I wouldn’t fret too much. The board isn’t getting smaller, only the “no man’s land” between deployment zone borders is. If there are also less models on the table, that will make maneuvering even more important. Both players will need to cover the same amount of space, but with fewer bodies to do it, allowing for the Dark Eldar to actually play the “hit and run” style they were designed for.

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1 hour ago, Ish said:

I feel that the Dark Eldar (all the xenos, really, but the Dark Eldar most of all) are just gonna have to once again “suck it up” for a year and a half until GW finally pushes out a codex for them.

The problem is, it usually means we have to suck it up for entire editions.

DE were horrible in 4th, the first half of 5th, then horrible again in 6th and 7th. In 8th, we got the cool new Raiding Force option where if you take 3 patrols, you'd get +4 command points. Except when GW changed battalions from +3 to +5 CP, the Raiding Force was completely obsolete. So we've been in suck it up mode for most of this edition too.

The fundamental design flaws with DE have never beed addressed. We're the only army I know have that has exclusively foot slogging HQs AND transports with no extra capacity to fit them. Venoms have 5, and raiders have 10. Like most armies, our ideal squad sizes are 5 or 10 (when you unlock more weapons).  So we can either:

1) have an HQ (or several) in a venom, risking a potentially calamitous exlposion

2) have an HQ in a raider with a squad that must take fewer guns to accommodate them.

3) Have HQs on foot, and either slow down to use auras, or move at full speed and forego auras.

It would be very easy to solve this, but GW hasn't for a decade because they really don't think about DE unless they have to, and then they think as little as possible about them.

Can GW fix them after we suck it up for however long is required? Yes. Will they? Probably not.

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If any vehicles could be easily retcon’d into having space for an extra passenger or two, it’s the open-topped platforms of the Drew Carey Drunk Harry Drukhari.

It’s also weird that they’ve never given Dark Eldar HQ’s an option for a jetbike (or even a hover board). Unfortunately, with GW’s recent practice of “if it ain’t in the box, it ain’t in the book” it is highly unlikely we’ll ever see an Archon on a ‘bike.

I’d be totally cool with a Dark Eldar player deciding to model an Archon on a jetbike and proxying it as a Ynnari Craftworld Autarch on a bike. 

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I hope D. Eldar and Ynnari get some detachment love (it was said that D. Eldar would, in one of the streams, hopefully Ynnari get to either mix elves in a detachment or some other love).

It looks like Imperial Assassins will get the same kind of rules that Inquisitors get, you can add one without breaking your "same faction thingys". Then you can spend 2 CP to swap that assassin for a different one! Time to get converting...

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I look forward to the changes.  It's apparent this is going to be much more mobile than we've seen.

I also believe transports are going to make a come back.

I don't think DE are out of the running as a viable army.

Terrain is going to matter and i strongly believe that armies who are more mobile and have the ability to rapidly redeploy across the battlefield are going to excell.

I say this because it looks like LoS blocking terrain is going to make game play interesting.

I'm excited to see how the game will progress.  At least GW is giving 40k much better love and support compared to AoS.

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Watching the Twitch stream...

Overwatch now requires that you spend 1CP to shoot. They mentioned all other abilities, like the Tau's ability to help out, only triggering once the CP is spent to shoot. They mentioned a veteran ability called Cool-Headed that lets a unit shoot Overwatch without spending the CP. Some units will have this by default. I assume this will be the case for current units that are specialists at Overwatch right now. 

Defensible Terrain makes your overwatch hit on 5 if you "hold steady". It also allows you to "set to defend" to get +1 to hit on the next Fight phase.

This was an intentional buff to Combat Armies, so they aren't always mowed down as they charge.

This is all coming from Stu Black.

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Overwatch Overhaul

 
 

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We’ve been taking a look at some of the changes to the core rules that will have the biggest impact on your games. The studio has received a lot of feedback about Overwatch – so these updates are designed to make it a more deliberate and thoughtful action. The goal is to help balance melee-oriented versus shooty armies and inject a little more strategy on both sides.

What is Overwatch?

Simply put, it’s the snapshots a unit takes when an enemy is running in their direction, blades in hand and warcries in their throats. 

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Overwatch plays a crucial role in Warhammer 40,000 – it causes armies that prefer melee combat to exercise a bit of caution as they rush to get to grips with the enemy, and punishes them for charging into heavy firepower. While that’s still true in the new edition of the game, things will work a little differently in practice. 

What’s New?

The first and biggest change is that Overwatch has shifted from a standard reaction to a Core Stratagem, costing 1 Command point to perform. As Stratagems can only be used once per phase, you’ll have to think long and hard about your odds of success. For example, Aggressors armed with flamestorm gauntlets are sure to roast some of the attackers, whilst a half-strength Astra Militarum squad may struggle to cause enough damage to warrant the cost.  

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Once you decide to fire Overwatch, it works pretty much as it has in the current edition, with shots hitting on unmodified rolls of six unless specified otherwise. 

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Overall, this is a huge boost to massed assault armies, such as Orks or Tyranids, that excel at smashing dozens of units into the enemy line all at once. Where previously, each one of those units would face retaliatory fire, now, your opponent will only be able to target ONE of your changing units, so will have to choose very carefully indeed! Do you stop the rampaging Trygon from smashing a tank or that horde of 30 Hormagaunts from shredding an infantry platoon? No easy choice.

Terrain Benefits

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When facing a big gunline unit that’s dug into some solid terrain, this crucial boost can make your opponent think twice, especially if it’s a long-range charge that may well end in failure. 

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You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule, essentially giving them two-for-one Overwatch fire – a brilliant use of a single Command point! One of our favourite new ones is a Battle Trait your units can receive as part of a Crusade force, permanently granting them FREE and improved Overwatch.

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Your ice-cold veterans are having NONE of that enemy charge! Free Overwatch attacks like this are few and far between, but they’re worth seeking out because they don’t prevent you from using the Stratagem in the same phase.

Be careful, though – a savvy enemy might be able to catch you off-guard if you’re in their deployment zone. The Strategic Reserves rule allows a unit to deploy on their own table edge, even if it’s within Engagement Range (1”) of an enemy, and proceed to make attacks as though they charged! This is such a situational rarity that it probably won’t come up very often, but a stunt like that completely bypasses Overwatch to surprise unwary or careless opponents. 

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In general, attackers will want to carefully choose the order of their charges to coax the other player into using Overwatch prematurely, and defenders will need to consider whether they should withhold their Overwatch fire for later. You may find some units or circumstances granting Overwatch without the need for a Stratagem – these will be very valuable indeed!

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Improvements to Overwatch via Orders, Chapter Traits, Stratagems, and Relics will pop up in the codices of Tau, Imperial Guard, and Spess Mahreens approximately three weeks after 9th Edition goes live. Probably something like:

Quote

Armaggedon War Veterans (1/3 CP) Before deployment, pick one (1 CP) or three (3 CP) unit of Astra Militarum Infantry from your army. That unit gains the Cool-Headed rule.

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17 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

8th was a shooting edition. Saying shooting is hosed due to a change in Overwatch is just...

I've been watching every twitch stream or VOD with the developers. They have literally said that shooting was too prevalent, so they wanted to make changes so that it wasn't as dominant. I'm not claiming Overwatch is the deathknell... But they have done a lot to reduce the power of shooting, this is one more thing. Terrain blocking line of sight, cover assisting with saves against shooting buy not against charging units, etc. There are lots of things. This is just a big one. I don't have a gunline army, so it's not a huge deal to me personally, but it's sad for my wife's tau.

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The problem wasn’t that shooting was too good for “shooty armies,” it was that it was too good for all armies. Factions that should have played with a blending of shooting and assault coughSpaceMarinescough were opting to lean hard into gun-line lists.

This seems like a much better design paradigm: Universally nerf shooting in general rules, then boost the shooting of a specific subset of factions via supplements. 

It’ll be rough for Tau and Imperial Guard for a few months, tops. 

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Also with terrain being line of sight blocking there is a great chance that smart players will plan to charge enemy units from behind LOS blocking terrain thereby canceling out overwatch, assuming that overwatch in 9th will still require line of sight. Not sure if the devs discussed that in the post above. 

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1 minute ago, SigurdBC said:

Nevermind. It looks like the overwatch strategem isn't reliant on LOS to be used which seems weird to me since overwatch has always needed LOS in previous editions. 

I wouldn’t put too much stock in these snippets. It’s perfectly plausible that the LOS requirement* is still in the actual rulebook, they just didn’t put it in the preview. Remember, these articles are marketing hype, not the final product.

* They also never discuss range limits.

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55 minutes ago, Ish said:

The problem wasn’t that shooting was too good for “shooty armies,” it was that it was too good for all armies. Factions that should have played with a blending of shooting and assault coughSpaceMarinescough were opting to lean hard into gun-line lists.

This seems like a much better design paradigm: Universally nerf shooting in general rules, then boost the shooting of a specific subset of factions via supplements. 

It’ll be rough for Tau and Imperial Guard for a few months, tops. 

I think you've nailed it. Shooting was too good overall. They needed to nerf it across the board, then carve out exceptions for specialist armies/units. My hyperbole and sarcasm wasn't translating. 🙂

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No (limited) overwatch is good for Dark Eldar.

We have a relic to cancel overwatch, but as whined about above, it's on our slow HQs which can make coordinating charges tricky.

The usual method is to charge with something least likely to die to the overwatch (often an empty transport) then charge with something that matters. I don't mind overwatch happening, but I'm glad we won't have the same unit over watching multiple times if they kill the first target. Killing one unit is good enough!

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The new rules making close combat more effective and limiting overwatch will probably just push space marines further into going all in on aggressors and centurions.  A few units with a billion shots and strong punches that mitigate the weaknesses and amplify the strengths.

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