40K 9th ed

[Ish]

Just now, blackvigil said:

My Eldar should have little problem zooming shooty tanks to the different quadrants, and delivering dakka from there while earning some VP. That's nice. This is going to be tough for foot slogging armies.

That’s going to depend very much on the footsloggers in question. Like I said, this is basically how the Cleanse mission worked in 3rd Edition (although scoring was only counted at the end of the game) and I always had a lot of success with it with my footsloggin’ Imperial Guard.

You just gotta think like cicadas, who breed in such huge numbers that predators can’t eat all of them. Take a footsloggin’ horde of Ork Boyz, Imperial Grunts, or Tyranid ‘Gaunts and flood so many bodies into each table quarter that your opponent can’t statistically kill off enough of them to deny you the points.

[blackvigil]

The "too many to kill" strategy is valid. I am going to be including Blast in my list, for just that reason. Now, I don't think it's going to work perfectly, but it will help. I always try to check the boxes; kill hordes, kill tanks, hold objectives, wreckingball unit, distraction carnifex. It seems like there might be some new considerations, like mobility.

[Ish]

This is also only one mission objective out of who knows how many... Likely, we’ll see another mission that runs as a direct counter to this.

Maybe something that encourages planting one elite unit in the table’s center and saying “Come at me, bro.” which would mean small-but-mobile armies (e.g., Eldar, Tau) would need to dedicate part of their army to trying to dislodge them and not running off into the bushes to score.

Or maybe something that discourages the “cicada strategy” by rewarding the player who mows down lots of his opponents cheap grunts (e.g., ‘gaunts and grunts).

[Mulgrok]

I really should get some Invictor war suits for my Salamanders.  Starting the game with control of the board seems pretty powerful in objective based missions.

[blackvigil]

I was plotting something like that for the up coming Mortifactors project. Besides, Invictors look really cool.

[InfestedKerrigan]

2 hours ago, Not an Inquisitor said:

I really should get some Invictor war suits for my Salamanders.  Starting the game with control of the board seems pretty powerful in objective based missions.

I hear you have to order them from China, they are that overused in the competitive scene.

[Mulgrok]

2 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I hear you have to order them from China, they are that overused in the competitive scene.

makes sense, they are pretty damn OP

[Ish]

They’re ridiculously under-costed, given their combination of weapons and deployment shenanigans.

You should be able to convert them from Redemptor Dreadnaughts without too much difficulty, if you’d rather not wait for the slow-boat from China... 

[Munkie]

Oof. No shooting after falling back for models with Fly. Hopefully all the +1 to hit and similar bonuses against Fly models are immediately scrapped. If the only trade off is freedom of movement for increased visibility and a bunch of hard counters, then Fly is an ability you do not want.

[Ish]

I’m hoping they add more granularity to better distinguish between the various sort of models that are all lumped under “Fly” right now.

Jump-pack infantry, floating alien jellyfish, antigrav jetbikes, giant alien pterodactyls, and interplanetary jet fighters shouldn’t all be treated quite the same way, right?

They’ve already teased us with the creation of the new “Aircraft” category. Perhaps most of the units that currently get bonuses against “Fly” will move to having those bonuses only against proper “Aircraft.” This would allow dedicated ack-ack units like the Hydra or Hunter to remain useful, but without the weird quirk they have now where they’re better at taking out Storm Boyz then they are at shooting down Dakkajetz.

[Munkie]

Yeah, that's exactly the direction I hope they take it. Fly was too good as a catch all. Dedicated AA guns shooting man-sized models or vehicles hovering just off the ground doesn't make much sense.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Dedicated AA would have an easier time taking out Gargoyles or Winged Tyrants than an autocannon armed guardsman heavy weapon platoon. 

[Ish]

I’m thinking something like “Aircraft,” “Skimmers,” and “Jumpers,” for lack of better names.

All of them should be able to do things like ignore other models when they move, cross over terrain features, and so forth.

“Aircraft” would be things like Dakkajets, Valkyries, and Harpies. Things that move at tremendous speeds relative to ground units, operate at extreme altitude, and are basically... well... Aircraft. Even if said aircraft is an alien space pterodactyl.

”Jumpers” would be things that move more like infantry or other ground-pounders, except for the occasional big leap from a jetpack or something. Assault Marines, Warp Spiders, Storm Boyz, and so forth.

”Skimmers” would be a halfway point. Things like Land Speeders, Eldar Grav-Tanks, Gargoyles, and so forth.

This would let us add some granularity not only to the Flyers, but also to the Anti-Flyer weapons. A dedicated for purpose specialist unit like the Hydra might be +1 to Hit Aircraft, Skimmers, and Jumpers, with a -1 to Hit everything else, because it’s specialized target tracking radar can predict which way a pigeon’s poop will fall, but it can’t depress its barrels well enough to hit a grunt on foot. But a more general purpose flakk missile from a man-portable missile launcher in a Tactical Squad is only +1 to Hit Aircraft, because it doesn’t have the brainpower to lock on to anything closer to the ground.

 

[Munkie]

2 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Dedicated AA would have an easier time taking out Gargoyles or Winged Tyrants than an autocannon armed guardsman heavy weapon platoon. 

The problem is splashing that stuff around is bad for game balance if there isn't a worthwhile reward in having the fly ability.

AA stuff should be better at killing things that fly, but if you add too much of that into the game (as they have currently because Fly is so good in 8th), then it just makes Fly bad to take.

That's the problem with hard counters. They're best used as checks on a powerful ability, but they may just end up stifling versatility. The game doesn't need a slew of hard counters for a good-not-great ability just because it makes narrative sense.

Just like it made narrative sense for flames to burn squads embarked inside open topped transports in 6th and 7th, but it was objectively bad for the game. It was hell on earth for 2 armies (Orks, DE) and nobody else cared. It made sense, but it served no mechanical purpose other than to create imbalance where there was none.

[Ish]

Or the silliness of the Rhino being an Open-Topped transport except for purposes of shooting at as was the case in Third (and I think Fourth?) Edition.

[Ish]

Faction Focus: Hungry Space Bugs is out today, but the real gem in the article is that they’re telling us what Dense Cover does.

I like it, I like it a lot... Although I suppose it is going to depend a lot on what counts as “Dense Cover.”

But it should make for some nice, tense, house-to-house fighting on dense Stalingrad type boards or nasty point blank shootouts on jungle boards. Gas up the flamers, ladies and gents.

[Chikin]

The Dense Cover rolls have a note on the rules.

 

Quote

***These apply to things like forests and dense industrial ruins, where protection comes more from difficulty in picking out a target, rather than the shots physically being blocked.

 

[WestRider]

3 hours ago, Ish said:

Faction Focus: Hungry Space Bugs is out today, but the real gem in the article is that they’re telling us what Dense Cover does.

 

That's cool, but what really got me salivating was the mention of a Vertical Engagement Range. Letting sufficiently large Models reach out and touch Units on higher levels is a real game-changer.

[Ish]

The mental image of a Knight-Gallant reaching into a third-story window, plucking up some hapless Guardsman, and then chucking him across the skyline does bring back some fond memories of pumping fistfuls of quarters into  Rampage...

 

[Ish]

6 minutes ago, necrontyr said:

Strategic Reserves units can’t normally be set up within 9″ of any enemy models, but if you set them up within 1″ of your own battlefield edge, they can be set up within this distance – and even within the 1″ Engagement Range of enemy models!

They solved this problem, finally... Although it also seems like a complete “null deployment” is also a no go.

[Ish]

7 minutes ago, necrontyr said:

Also new Morale rules:

I’m not sure if I like this or not. Combat Attrition Tests are gonna be a pain in the rump for large units of Orks, ‘Gaunts, and so forth.

[Munkie]

15 minutes ago, necrontyr said:

Yeah, but it's a lot better than just having those models run away. I like the new Morale personally.

I wish it was "subtract 1 from combat tests if the unit began the turn below half strength." Having a unit shot up on turn 1, and then a large chunk of it running away immediately after seems especially brutal on horde armies.

With this slight modification, a large blob should at least get one turn of action before things go belly up. 

[blackvigil]

I like the new Morale also. It clearly benefits small squads, but that seems ok. They are just wiped before morale kills them.

[Ish]

I like the rule, it should stop Morale from being an all-or-nothing binary. Currently, you pretty much always ignore it or it wipes out your squad. This new system should increase that middle of the “bell curve,” where you’re probably never going to get completely wiped out but there’s always going to be a risk of a few extra losses.

Combined with the changes to “Look Out, Sir!” making it harder to bubble wrap characters behind multiple small units and the new Blast rules being tough on hordes, we’ll probably see a return to 10-man squads... except from really beefy units that are meant to be aggressive elites and not bubble wrap (e.g., Aggressors, Crisis Suits) will still be useful in 3-man squads and really cheap chaffe where you don’t mind removing shovelfuls of them from the table after each blast (e.g., Boyz, ‘Gaunts, Conscripts) since you’re probably deploying them by the bucketful.

[Inquisitor66]

I anticipate that terror troops type rolls will give -1 to combat attrition as opposed to leadership now.