40K 9th ed

[Ish]

4 minutes ago, Inquisitor66 said:

I anticipate that terror troops type rolls will give -1 to combat attrition as opposed to leadership now.

Hopefully both!

Primaris Reivers and the entire Night Lords Legion need the boost.

[Munkie]

18 minutes ago, Ish said:

I like the rule, it should stop Morale from being an all-or-nothing binary. Currently, you pretty much always ignore it or it wipes out your squad. This new system should increase that middle of the “bell curve,” where you’re probably never going to get completely wiped out but there’s always going to be a risk of a few extra losses.

Combined with the changes to “Look Out, Sir!” making it harder to bubble wrap characters behind multiple small units and the new Blast rules being tough on hordes, we’ll probably see a return to 10-man squads... except from really beefy units that are meant to be aggressive elites and not bubble wrap (e.g., Aggressors, Crisis Suits) will still be useful in 3-man squads and really cheap chaffe where you don’t mind removing shovelfuls of them from the table after each blast (e.g., Boyz, ‘Gaunts, Conscripts) since you’re probably deploying them by the bucketful.

10 man?!

I can't see a compelling reason to include more than 5. Based on what we've seen so far, I doubt very much that I'd include more than 6 squads of 5 troops in any list. 

[blackvigil]

45 minutes ago, Ish said:

Hopefully both!

Primaris Reivers and the entire Night Lords Legion need the boost.

I was looking at Reivers the other day, because I like the models. I was comparing them to the hypothetical stats of the Assault Intercessors. (Clearly it's just a though exercise.) It seems like the the Reivers had little to offer, and had no business being in the Elite slots. If they penalize morale and attrition, it might be a new consideration.

[Mulgrok]

Maybe i should change my Salamander army into a -8 leadership blob.  Although, It will probably be difficult getting 3 reiver squads within 3" of multiple units while being supported with a librarian and ancient with larger auras.

[MexicanNinja]

On 6/23/2020 at 9:54 AM, Ish said:

Faction Focus: Hungry Space Bugs is out today, but the real gem in the article is that they’re telling us what Dense Cover does.

I like it, I like it a lot... Although I suppose it is going to depend a lot on what counts as “Dense Cover.”

But it should make for some nice, tense, house-to-house fighting on dense Stalingrad type boards or nasty point blank shootouts on jungle boards. Gas up the flamers, ladies and gents.

I love this for trees and tree-like terrain.

[Sgt. Rock]

16 minutes ago, blackvigil said:

I was looking at Reivers the other day, because I like the models. I was comparing them to the hypothetical stats of the Assault Intercessors. (Clearly it's just a though exercise.) It seems like the the Reivers had little to offer, and had no business being in the Elite slots. If they penalize morale and attrition, it might be a new consideration.

Keep in mind that Reivers do have more mobility and deployment options than the Intercessors do. Deep strike and the grapnel hooks are really nice, and they can get to where they need to be faster, and for far fewer points, than trying to shove the Intercessors into a transport of some sort.

[MexicanNinja]

Just now, Sgt. Rock said:

Keep in mind that Reivers do have more mobility and deployment options than the Intercessors do. Deep strike and the grapnel hooks are really nice, and they can get to where they need to be faster, and for far fewer points, than trying to shove the Intercessors into a transport of some sort.

Reivers got a huge boost with shock assault as well.

I want to say 21 CC attacks (31 in the 1st CC round) with carbines and 31 attacks (41 in the 1st CC round).

10 reivers w/launchers and shutes=200

5 intercessors w/ autobolt rifles and an impulsor w/shield dome=187.

They are both different roles and it depends on who charges who.

[blackvigil]

The differences are certainly nuanced, and both units have points in their favor. The deployment and having an assault 2 gun in really solid for the Reivers. Intercessors have 2 huge boons in my book; Troops, and Intercessor Sgts can take fists/hammers. (Theoretically) To me, having a big damage Sgt is really big. There is the running commentary from Stu Black something like "Asartes Chainswords are better than normal chainswords," with the insinuation that they will have 1 Ap, or some other small bonus. That is pretty good too, because it buffs all of their CC attacks. To me, the tipping point is the Veteran Intercessor strategem, assuming it exists in 9th. Adding the extra CC attack makes these guys resource intensive, but super solid. 

Once we get the rules, I think there will be a real comparison to be made. No, I don't think there will be one right answer, but I do think the Intercessors will be default due to their Troop designation. You have to take Troops*, and these are the CC option. 3 Squads of 10 running at you is a threat. If you focus fire, then you're ignoring the big guns, which will be a problem in the long term. I think Reivers will be like they are now, a niche pick. The problem is, they will be competing for a slot against Bladeguard Vets, which are the new hotness, Elite as well, and CC specialists. That will be Reivers even more of a corner case. The CC advance deployment guys that compete with a the Invictor for being that early advance deployment threat.

My wish? (Yeah, nobody asked, but I'll say it anyway) I want a Phobos Troops choice, even if I have to pay CP, or something like that. 

*not really, but it's the path of least resistance

[Tamwulf]

Not gonna comment too much on the new rules, because GW is only showing us a small sliver of the overall picture. They are generating hype and all that for a new edition. What I will comment on from what I have read:

Points values for everything going up 15%+ means smaller armies. If it's 15% across the board, that means a 2,000 point game in the new edition will feel like a 1700 point game in 8th. I'd expect points values to go up a lot more for some units then others. Pure speculation on my part, but I bet a 2,000 point game in 9th will actually feel like a 1,500 point game in 8th. The push by GW for a weird, smaller table sizes is a bad thing, though GW has since backed off and said those are "minimum table sizes". More a marketing gimmick then anything else because the terrain tiles and mats that GW makes have been too small/odd sizes for the years. To suddenly expect players/TO's/Tournaments to "resize" their tables... yeah, that ain't gonna happen.  

More pure speculation, armies will be smaller, MSU will be back with a vengeance due to increased points costs and new leadership rules, and we'll see more single detachment armies so they can have CP, or armies with multiple detachments but a lot less CP. If anything, I think every player is going to feel CP starved. 

Forget the simplicity of 8th edition. 9th is going to have a lot more rules, and they are going to be more complicated. Good or bad? /shrug won't know until we see ALL the rules.

Just some thoughts so far. I am looking forward to the new edition!

[Ish]

I think Chapter Traits (or whatever they wind up calling them) will also be a big X Factor in the Reivers’ worth.

[blackvigil]

I agree with you Ish. (I tend to be doing that a lot in this thread...) Scars can get into combat on turn 1 with the Advance + Charge ability. So, that's pretty huge. It'll be all about the tailored tool for the job.

Interesting new Tau info from the 40k Daily show with Stu Black. For the Greater Good lets Tau shoot Overwatch for free across the army. So they will be blasting assaulters just like always. Can't say I'm disappointed. My wife plays Tau, and I didn't want her army to be nerfed, selfishly. Happy wife, happy life, and all that. lol. 

[Ish]

On 6/17/2020 at 9:45 AM, Ish said:

Improvements to Overwatch via Orders, Chapter Traits, Stratagems, and Relics will pop up in the codices of Tau, Imperial Guard, and Spess Mahreens approximately three weeks after 9th Edition goes live.

28 minutes ago, blackvigil said:

Interesting new Tau info from the 40k Daily show with Stu Black. For the Greater Good lets Tau shoot Overwatch for free across the army.

I iz da Prophet uv da Waaagh! Again! 

[Munkie]

That's too bad about Tau. I used to love my Tau back in 4th and 5th when they were a mobile faction.

This confirms that the Tau way of war will continue to be: sit in the corner as far away as possible and never move unless you absolutely have to.

They used to have a lot of tactical depth with moving devilish, drone screens, and jump shoot jump mechanics. In all of 8th edition, I've played a Tau army that had a movement phase exactly one time (at the ofcc). 

Otherwise it's more of a parking lot than guard have ever been.

 

[blackvigil]

I watched a Battle Report where he played Farsight Enclave, and it was pretty rad. He rolled forward, did a ton of shooting with solid buffs from the Enclave tactic. Then, he charged with a couple things, but mostly waited to get charged. Then the whole overwatch thing went off. I think you can play them as long range shooters, but with a smaller board, you'll want to get familiar with different strategies. It seems like the style you describe is exactly what is enabled by Farsight.

[ZeroStride]

I don't think they'll be sitting in a corner and shooting (and winning), just based on the missions we've seen so far.

When it's Hold 1/2/more for primary objectives, and the bonus objectives seem to be special-hold-related (and needing to give up an 'action'). It's difficult to think that any non-moving army will find much success.

Also the Tau getting free overwatch was not that much of a surprise, since they teased that in the Overwatch thing. More surprising is:

Quote

The largest challenge for the T’au Empire in the new edition is the change to the Fly keyword. It no longer offers units the ability to Fall Back and shoot, which means you need to put extra effort into screening enemy charges and preventing your critical shooting units from being engaged in combat.

 

[Ish]

I think that T’au Sept Tau will continue to rely on turtling up in a corner and trying to win by shooting their opponent off the table, since their Chapter Tactic Sept Tenet, Sept Stratagem, and Special Characters all lean into a (mostly) static gunline. The other T’au Septs will probably return to a more mobile form of game play, using Devilfish and Orcas to move quickly to grab midfield objectives (and then shoot their opponent off the table. I mean, they’re still Tau.)

I think the question is going to be what, if any, changes happen for the Riptide and it’s support drones. 

[Munkie]

Yeah that's essentially the issue. "For the greater good" encourages you to clump your army. Spreading out actively weakens one of their most potent core mechanics.

On top of that, the ability of drones to mitigate damage is amplified by having drone squads within 6" of as many units as possible. Preferably multiple drone squads in range of multiple units for maximum damage mitigation.

People might need to move in 9th to win a game, but the design of the army itself is to encourage you not to move. I think a competitive list in 9th will look identical to 8th and play almost exactly the same. Spend 2 turns shooting with relative impunity because your opponent has to kill drones before they can even try to shoot at riptides. Then grab objectives in the late game when the opponent doesn't have enough bodies to control the board. 

I'd love to see devilish and Crisis suits (anyone remember those) come back, but I just don't think they will unless GW rethinks what they want the army to do.

[Dark Trainer]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

I think that T’au Sept Tau will continue to rely on turtling up in a corner and trying to win by shooting their opponent off the table, since their Chapter Tactic Sept Tenet, Sept Stratagem, and Special Characters all lean into a (mostly) static gunline. The other T’au Septs will probably return to a more mobile form of game play, using Devilfish and Orcas to move quickly to grab midfield objectives (and then shoot their opponent off the table. I mean, they’re still Tau.)

I think the question is going to be what, if any, changes happen for the Riptide and it’s support drones. 

That's what Tau have done in every edition 😁

 

And moving? a squad of cheap kroot make for objective grabbing. Shoot them, please. You'd be doing the Tau a favor. 

[Ish]

“Fish of Fury” was a thing once. I’m expecting it to come back.

[Dark Trainer]

Did we get any hint of a 9th ed release date or pre-orders yet? Rumor said July (ish), but wasn't sure if something solidified yet?

[Andrewgeddon]

31 minutes ago, Dark Trainer said:

Did we get any hint of a 9th ed release date or pre-orders yet? Rumor said July (ish), but wasn't sure if something solidified yet?

They said on a preview that the Indominus box would be out in "July," but no other specifics at this point.

[Ish]

Given that the international maritime trade is still reeling from Coronavirus (a third of the world’s total merchant fleet is Chinese flagged, more than half of all maritime trade passes through a Chinese port in any given year, and the vast majority of merchant seamen are Indonesian, Phillipino, Vietnamese, or Chinese) it is probably in GW’s best interest not too commit to a specific date too far in advance. 

Yes, GW does the bulk of their manufacturing in the UK these days (plus a small amount in the US) rather than in China... But GW still has to move their products via commercial shipping. Even shipping companies that only ply the Atlantic and never touch an Asian port are feeling knock on effects of SARS-COVID-2.

The light of the Astronomicon grows dim, brothers. We must hold the line a little longer.

[ZeroStride]

Supposedly pre-orders will start on the 11th, and then the 25th it will arrive, but also yeah, what Ish said.

[Munkie]

In the grim darkness of the extremely near future there is only...

...peace?

[Ish]

 

3 minutes ago, Munkie said:

In the grim darkness of the extremely near future there is only...

...peace?