40K 9th ed

[MexicanNinja]

For me, intercessors unlock the BN and as a BA player Sanguinary Guard trump reivers and agressors put in more work against more enemy units.

However, the reiver models are very cool.

[Munkie]

Drukhari Faction Focus is up. The big thing is taking 3 patrols will take up net 0 CPs. So we can mix the different sub-factions without getting punished by the new detachment system.

It essentially mimics a single battalion list in terms of mandatory slots and CP pool but with one additional HQ required. In exchange, we get the flexibility of mixing kabals/cults/covens as well as doubling the maximum FA, HS, and Flyer slots. I'm looking forward to these builds being worth taking again. In 8th, the triple patrol Raiding Force uses all 3 available detachments and only creates a pool of 7 CP. Now it'll be whatever the starting pool is.

Also confirms that, while units with fly can't shoot after falling back, aircraft don't have to fall back, they just leave combat so they can still shoot. I better finish putting LEDs in my new voidraven bombers...

[Ish]

Combat Patrol preview is up too. Missions and force organization charts specifically tailored to smaller format games of 500 Points.

(Not coincidentally, I’m sure, each “half” of the Indomitus box fills out a Combat Patrol... and so do most of the Start Collecting boxes.)

[Inquisitor66]

19 minutes ago, Ish said:

Combat Patrol preview is up too. Missions and force organization charts specifically tailored to smaller format games of 500 Points.

(Not coincidentally, I’m sure, each “half” of the Indomitus box fills out a Combat Patrol... and so do most of the Start Collecting boxes.)

Looks like you can do your custodes combat patrol!

[Ish]

8 minutes ago, Inquisitor66 said:

Looks like you can do your custodes combat patrol!

Heck, the article actually teases that it’s possible to run KNIGHTS in Combat Patrol, so fitting the Glorious Banana Boys into it shouldn’t be too hard. Winning with them might be.

Under their current point values and power levels, I can fit a Shield-Captain on foot and two three-man units of Custodian Guard into the Combat Patrol format (23 PL / 416 Points). Although these guys are going to be tough as nails, it will be extremely difficult to compete in the previewed Incisive Attack mission:

But that’s kind of the nature of the beast when you opt to play an army were your basic grunt has stats to rival most other faction’s Special Characters.

 

[Inquisitor66]

I dunno, 

10 minutes ago, Ish said:

Heck, the article actually teases that it’s possible to run KNIGHTS in Combat Patrol, so fitting the Glorious Banana Boys into it shouldn’t be too hard. Winning with them might be.

Under their current point values and power levels, I can fit a Shield-Captain on foot and two three-man units of Custodian Guard into the Combat Patrol format (23 PL / 416 Points). Although these guys are going to be tough as nails, it will be extremely difficult to compete in the previewed Incisive Attack mission:

But that’s kind of the nature of the beast when you opt to play an army were your basic grunt has stats to rival most other faction’s Special Characters.

 

I dunno, you'll have 3 units, most of the preview patrols had 4. Since you don't need to squat on the objectives seems you'll have a decent shot.

[Ish]

With progressive scoring and four objectives, it’s gonna be hard to cover that with only two units and a hero. Although the mission description mentions that you can choose secondary objectives, so, potentially there’s something in there that would help even the odds...

But, whatever, it looks like great fun! 

[Munkie]

20 hours ago, Ish said:

Combat Patrol preview is up too. Missions and force organization charts specifically tailored to smaller format games of 500 Points.

(Not coincidentally, I’m sure, each “half” of the Indomitus box fills out a Combat Patrol... and so do most of the Start Collecting boxes.)

As the number of footnotes grew in that article, it began to feel as if GW was calling me mean names. 

[VonVilkee]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

With progressive scoring and four objectives, it’s gonna be hard to cover that with only two units and a hero. Although the mission description mentions that you can choose secondary objectives, so, potentially there’s something in there that would help even the odds...

But, whatever, it looks like great fun! 

You don't have to cover... Just own and move on! Focus on their speedy stuff with shooting engage the slower stuff cut it apart! The mission expects lower unit counts, I was hoping for a tease of how control and force org slot interact... Just to feel secure in how much troops are needed or not as the case may be

[Ish]

Yeah, the problem with “flip it and move on” is that the other player can just flip it back... and Custodes really don’t have much shooting and don’t move terribly fast.

I’m totally genuinely excited to play this mission though. It looks like it’s going to be the perfect combination of strategic mental puzzle as I try to come up with a list, tactical mental puzzle as I try to respond to my opponent’s actions during the game, and good old fashioned dice chuckin’ as the Random Number Gods decide to @&#% with us both.

[Sgt. Rock]

I'm super stoked for Combat Patrol sized games. Tactical Squads shine at low levels like this where the Primaris boys are too expensive. Also, my new Guard army I've been eyeballing will love it.

[blackvigil]

I'm going to be all about Combat Patrol. I want to start small like that for Crusade, and slowly build. 

[Inquisitor66]

Yeah. Be great to have a full playable army off a single box

[Ish]

GW has been teasing us with promises of multiple missions for each game size (500/1000/2000) and although I was excited by the idea, I was very skeptical. Even though this Incisive Attack is the only mission they’ve shown, I am now happily upgrading myself from “very skeptical” to “eagerly anticipating.”

If they have truly coupled robust support for smaller game sizes with a balanced narrative campaign system, by Jove, it just might be the perfect casual league format. 

[Ish]

From Goonhammer, who said it better than I could: 

As you can see, this is a mission designed around the smaller board – the objectives are tight together on the 44″x30″ playspace. Objective holding is designed for a limited number of units – once you claim something, you hold it until your opponent takes it off you even if none of your units are on it, a bit like capping a resource point in Dawn of War. The actual scoring is similar to the Four Pillars mission we saw for the Strikeforce level for “standard” 2000pt 40k, with points for controlling one, two, or more objectives, but the “Sweep and Clear” rule frees you up to have your units actually do things rather than needing them all to stand around capping points, with your limited options even more limited by the need to score points. It opens up great potential for play and counter-play – do you leave an objective open, at risk of your opponent stealing it off you? Or do you camp the points and give up an opportunity to kill or charge something, hoping you can instead play a board control game? This kind of tactical play was quite often absent at small points values before. Like the other mission we saw there’s also a mission-specific secondary objective, Surgical Assault – 5pts for controlling your opponent’s objective marker. The fun thing here is to remember that with Sweep and Clear, you can continue to “control” this marker even if you’re not actually holding it with any units right now – so it’s very possible to do exactly what the name suggests, burst in with a unit and take the objective, and then move on from it while still racking up the points.

I can only hope all the missions in the book are half as well designed as the two we’ve seen.

[MexicanNinja]

The cool thing about this game is that not all armies are created the same.  Each army has their own specific niche and it's up to us, the players, to figure out how we want to play the army we purchase.

Bring on the hatred...

[ZeroStride]

I've been talking with my fellow Kill Team Illuminati and...boy are we excited for Combat Patrol, and 9th in general.

So Kill Team has had the hold 1/2/more mission type for a while. Tournaments started adopting the kill 1/more, hold 1/more format from ITC because the hold 1/2/more format was incredibly boring, and favored specific armies and lists (as well as exacerbated the injury roll issues in KT). The missions and 9th rules really get me excited though, because instead of going ITC style kill 1/more, hold 1/more, instead we're now delaying scoring of hold by a turn. You can't score any primaries (hold 1/2/more) in the first turn, and instead you score them in your next Command Phase.

Speculatively...this should mean that things don't get all kill-based, while at the same time it doesn't lead to just pure resilient and boring games (the way hold 1/2/more developed in Kill Team). You've got time to disrupt your opponent's plans, while at the same time you are considering resilient units so you can hold, as well as cavalry (for harassment) and heavy fire units (to clean them off of objectives).

All in all, I'm very curious to see how this does. I think it could strike a nice balance between not 'rewarding kills' but also not encouraging turtling units. Combined with a points decrease, and the character targeting update, I am hopeful that it forces tough decisions in what you want to take and what jobs your units need to do.

[Mulgrok]

I suspect a typical formation of: long range fire support holding the nearest objective to the deployment zone, mid range fire with some close combat to fight for the middle, and deepstrike/fast attack for hitting the far side.

[Ish]

20 minutes ago, Mulgrok said:

I suspect a typical formation of: long range fire support holding the nearest objective to the deployment zone, mid range fire with some close combat to fight for the middle, and deepstrike/fast attack for hitting the far side.

All part of this balanced breakfast army list.

[blackvigil]

The Imperial Knights faction focus was pretty low on info. It told me that fielding my Wraith Knight will cost me 3CP in addition to it's questionable points cost. I say questionable because I can field a lot more fire power with grav tanks or fliers, for the same points. The addition of the 3CP tax will mean that it's just put in for friendly games. Since I mostly play friendly games, that's not an issue, but it's still over costed. 

[Ish]

There are two ways in which you can field Lords of War units such as Imperial Knights – either as a Super-heavy Detachment of 3-5 Knights, or singly as part of a Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment (usually as an allied Detachment). Even though it may at first seem expensive (as Titanic units, it will cost 6 Command points to include a Super-heavy Detachment of Imperial Knights), it’s possible to get those CPs refunded, like the ‘core’ Patrol, Battalion and Brigade Detachments.

This article doesn’t go into detail on how you “get those CP refunded,” instead teasing us that they’ll reveal it in a future update. On the other hand, we already know that the detachment with your Warlord in it gets its CP cost refunded, so a Imperial/Renegade Knight Faction army shouldn’t had any problems.

This does look like it will make it cost you to play Mortarian / Magnus / Roboute... Which I am more than okay with. It’s a little annoying how “crutch” those characters became. Primarchs should be special, they shouldn’t pop up in every damn game.

[Ish]

1 minute ago, blackvigil said:

The Imperial Knights faction focus was pretty low on info. It told me that fielding my Wraith Knight will cost me 3CP in addition to it's questionable points cost.

The presumed it will remain a Lord of War... It probably will (and probably should) but we don’t know that it will.

[blackvigil]

I considered the possibility of them moving it to Heavy Support. I am not sure how it's much different than a Repulsor Executioner in battlefield impact. (Overall, I'd say it's weaker) They have a similar cost, aside from the 3CP. We'll see.

I was chatting about hoping for revisions to Reivers, speculating on blade guard vets, and the relative comparison to the impact of an Invictor or Aggressors. Basically, this time of not knowing is sort of difficult, but it spawns good conversations. The Elite slot for Primaris armies is crowded. 

[Ish]

24 minutes ago, blackvigil said:

The Elite slot for Primaris armies is crowded. 

I’m wondering if we’ll see Apothecaries, Ancients, and Company Champions folded back into the Command Squad...?

[Tamwulf]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

I’m wondering if we’ll see Apothecaries, Ancients, and Company Champions folded back into the Command Squad...?

A squad of characters? No way! LOL That would be like, the most broken thing ever.
About Reivers- hot garbage, and unless they receive some kind of massive rework... what's the point? Their deployment options kinda suck, and require at the best 6" within a table edge and 9" away from enemy models. The Bolt Carbine and Heavy Bolt Pistol are nice, but the unit gets the most out of being a close combat unit, forcing you to swap out that Bolt Carbine for a combat knife that gives you one extra attack at no AP. Shock grenades are... well, with the changes to overwatch, it's a bit of a nerf. The -1 to hit in close combat would be nice, but the thing that kills it... 6" range and d3 attacks. The Grapnel launcher? If vertical movement was an actual thing that mattered more in the game, then yeah, might be worth it. It also sounds like terrain rules are changing such that vertical distance isn't as much of a factor anymore. Otherwise, you are paying points for a different deployment method when in the new edition, you'll be able to use CP to do the same thing. The Terror Troops ability means even less then it did before. Even after every armies abilities to ignore LD tests, or retake failed one, or whatever, and with the auto 1 pass, -1 LD... OK. What happens if you fail? Roll a d6 for each model and on a 1, they are removed as a casualty. It's a non-factor. Last, and certainly not least, Reivers are in the elites section. Do you know what else is in the elites section? Apothecaries, Ancients, Company Champions, Company Veterans, all the Terminators, the Dreadnoughts, Invictus Warsuit, Vanguard Veterans, Sternguard, Aggressor squad, and Centurion Assault Squad. All better options in every Space Marine army over Reivers. The Reivers will need a significant rework to make them desirable or worth taking. Possible things to do: Give them deployment shenanigans for free. Give them some kind of bonus for being in cover. Make them into a melee assassination unit, like all the combat knives are poisoned and wound infantry on a 2+, maybe give them a bonus vs. Characters (+1 to hit?). Or make the Bolt Carbine assault 2, and allow the Reivers to charge the turn they advance. Those would make the Reivers worth taking. Otherwise... what's the point?