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3 hours ago, Ish said:

A recent post from Goonhammer seems to be leaning towards large units actually being rather good. Of course, they also add that:

In fairness, they are exclusively comparing 8th ed leadership to 9th ed leadership. They do not mention or consider the other counters built into the ruleset into their conclusions.

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2 hours ago, Ish said:

Hence the “we don’t really know, but we wanna speculate anyway” caveat.

I understand that, just pointing out that the statement "A recent post from Goonhammer seems to be leaning towards large units actually being rather good." is a little misleading.

They weren't investigating whether large units were good or not. Nor did they conclude that large units were better off in the one area they were exploring.

Their conclusion is that large units are better off in one sense, and worse off in another. Better, because the whole squad won't get wiped automatically by failing morale; yet worse because when taking smaller numbers of casualties and still failing will result in more models dying than in 8th.

They concluded that large units are not really better or worse off with morale than they are in this edition--it's too scenario specific to make a definitive assertion. And I agree with that assessment. 

But if you take that and add blasts and coherency issues, and it's not hard to conclude that they're worse off than they were in 8th. But even then, that's not what's really driving my choice. The difference between 8th and 9th becomes irrelevant once we're playing 9th so it is only the relative value of 9th edition units.

As an example, if I want a raider filled with 10 wyches, I can't think of a single reason why I wouldn't run them as 2 squads of 5. Same number of models, same role, but with immunity to these purpose-built counters, the ability to separate my forces if necessary, and additional weird things like spreading out transport destruction damage across both units so neither has to take Ld tests (and actually become immune to Ld for the rest of the game if they drop to 3 models left)

With 2 squads of 5, I can still wrap them around vehicles single file, build conga lines, and whatever half-assed placement my half-drunk self comes up with.

I'm particularly excited about the idea of charging large or medium size squads on 2 flanks and giving them a hell of a time deciding where to pull casualties. Can't pull too many from the middle or the squad will split in half and explode. If you pull wounds closest to the unit first attacking, you can't retaliate against it. If you pull wounds away from the unit on the other side, they'll still get to pile in and attack because they charged, or maybe they'll just decide to be out of combat. Then after you carefully pull wounds, you've got a pile in and a consolidate move in which you still cannot break coherency. Then a Ld test with even more careful casualty choices, then you check to make sure you're still in coherency. The whole time trying to keep squad leaders and special weapon troopers alive.

That's a whole stack of plates I don't have to keep spinning by spending the exact same number of points on the exact same number of models, but in a smarter way.

In 8th, there are pros and cons to be weighed before deciding how I want to arrange my troops choices in their transports. In 9th, there will be a correct choice and an incorrect choice for me.

Since 3x patrols will be the defacto Drukhari list design, I'll have access to 9 troops choices. That's 45 models of minimum squads. Or I could do 3 total squads arranged into 20/15/10 and know that I made a worse army. 

I would just like to see rules that encourage list diversity. Not hope that diversity thrives despite the discouragement of GW.

 

Anyway, I'll leave it alone now, as I've beat this horse to death.

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Looks like games will have a fixed length of 5 turns.  I think they are encouraging faster games for organized events.  It does have the drawback of making "concealed position" marine stuff  more powerful than ever.  Cover the board before the game starts and it is an uphill battle for other armies to reach objectives.

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Random turn length is a sacred cow that needed to be slaughtered a long time ago. If it was an aspect of one or two narrative scenarios  where it added some sort of tension – Can you defend the spaceport long enough for the civilians to evacuate? – it wouldn’t be so bad, but when any given scenario has a 67% chance of going to turn six, and a 33% chance of going to turn seven...

The game becomes a chore. You either have to table your opponent or build up an unassailable lead by turn five. Otherwise, your opponent will drop all pretense of trying to win and just play for the draw. 

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5 minutes ago, Ish said:

Random turn length is a sacred cow that needed to be slaughtered a long time ago. If it was an aspect of one or two narrative scenarios  where it added some sort of tension – Can you defend the spaceport long enough for the civilians to evacuate? – it wouldn’t be so bad, but when any given scenario has a 67% chance of going to turn six, and a 33% chance of going to turn seven...

The game becomes a chore. You either have to table your opponent or build up an unassailable lead by turn five. Otherwise, your opponent will drop all pretense of trying to win and just play for the draw. 

I'm hoping that the addition of Progressive Objectives will be enough to offset the plague of "go second, hide until the last turn, jump on all the Objectives at the last minute" that I ran into way too often the last time they did fixed game length.

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14 minutes ago, Mulgrok said:

I just hope they don't sell out instantly.   My army could use all of the Marine units.

Yeah, i'm considering splitting and taking a Necron side of that box. Don't really need more warriors and scarabs though. Thinking about it...

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MxQT2JG.png

 

The Command Benefit means you only get the CP rebate if your Warlord is in the Supreme Command Detachment which means he will not in the Brigade/Battalion/Patrol Detachment, in which case it still costs 4/3/2 CP. You don't get extra CP by having this detachment, you simply won't lose any... But it does meant Magnus, Mortarian, and Roboute won't necessarily spend Ninth Edition decorating your shelves.

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That's really good. It gives you the CP refund you would have had if your warlord could fit into a standard detachment. So there's no downside to taking Mortarion, for instance, other than you've used 2 detachments and had to buy one extra HQ in the battalion or whatever you wish you could put him into.

But still 2 detachments, one of which is a Demon Primarch and the total cost is 0 CP. Not bad at all.

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2 minutes ago, Mulgrok said:

doesn't look like the final draft.  I doubt it is close to accurate.

What makes you say that? Seems pretty consistent with the CA books I've purchased in the past. 

Also, Blood of Kittens has $250 listed as the price of the starter box, though I don't know where this number game from ("grain of salt" and all that). If that's true, which I'm inclined to say it is, still seems to be a good value, but a bit of a blow for people expecting a $160 price tag like Dark Imperium.

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5 minutes ago, Andrewgeddon said:

What makes you say that? Seems pretty consistent with the CA books I've purchased in the past. 

Also, Blood of Kittens has $250 listed as the price of the starter box, though I don't know where this number game from ("grain of salt" and all that). If that's true, which I'm inclined to say it is, still seems to be a good value, but a bit of a blow for people expecting a $160 price tag like Dark Imperium.

I mistakenly assumed it would include the new units, but it is probably a list that includes changes only.   I forgot how GW tries their hardest to prevent all info from being in 1 easy to read location.

EDIT: current exchange rates + the usual 33% cost increase for US would probably result in $200 price for the Indomitus box

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$200-250 seems like a plausible price for the Indomitus box, depending on whether or not it comes with a soft-back mini rulebook or a full-blown hardcover deluxe rulebook.

I want to like the Hammerfall turret, but I’m not quite sold on it. Is it supposed to be a modular unit that gets dropped into a zone and then assembled (which it looks like) or is it dropped into place as-is (which the name implies, but the model absolutely doesn’t look like something that could be aerodynamically dropped... even with the Imperium’s usual tenuous notions of what aerodynamic designs are).

And what was wrong with the classic Deathstorm drop pod!? 

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