Dusldorf Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Sgt. Rock said: Right? That venerable dread I have in the cabinet is going to be on the board a lot more. I for one welcome the return of our Grand Master Nemesis Dreadknight overlords. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Brandon said: I only have played at Guardian with Ordo members... and I still get wiped turn 2! Someday I will be decent at playing. Someday... It’s not playing at Guardian that I’ve got a problem with, it’s several of the players who regularly play in their league... and it’s not a majority of them. But there are several That Guy’s who have spoiled the whole scene for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Brandon said: I only have played at Guardian with Ordo members... and I still get wiped turn 2! Someday I will be decent at playing. Someday... I will play you! I am not super good but a few around here think I am a decent player ^_^ I know some tricks though 9th is killing a few like tri-pointing and such. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Sgt. Rock said: Right? That venerable dread I have in the cabinet is going to be on the board a lot more. I can't wait to run triple dreads with my libby dread....all in pods... IT WILL BE GLORIOUS!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Rock Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 After reading the leaked Crusade rules, I noticed something interesting. Your Order of Battle just needs to have one faction keyword in common. It doesn't say anything about only being drawn from one codex or whatever. So realistically, I could have, say, a small detachment of Rynnsguard on my OoB to accompany my Crimson Fists, and it would still be legit. Army might not count as Battle Forged, and I wouldn't get my chapter bonuses, but I could do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 You determine if the army is Battle Forged after you’ve drawn units from your Order of Battle to form an army for any given game. So it’d be possible to have a Battle Forged Space Marine army one game, a Battle Forged Astra Militarum Imperial Guard army the next, and then a non-Battle Forged hybrid army the time after that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 It follows the current rules for creating Detachments in 9th. SO for Crsades you could have a Space Marine Chapter, some Astra Militarum, and Adeptus Soriatas in your Order of Battle. From there, when you play a game you create detachments from that Order of battle like you would in 9th edition so you would spend command points on different detachments so if you wanted a Patrol Detachment for your Astra Militarum and than a Battalion for your Space Marines you could do that. You are still battle forged so you get the benefits as each detachment is still wholly of one smaller faction but you lose an EXTRA valuable resource in the command points spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 For my Orks and the same would be for Tau and Necrons, we would only be able to pick different Kultures so right now my Order of Battle has Deffskulls, but if I wanted some Goffs for some extra killy close combat I would need to take them in a new detachment to get their Kulture benefit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 7 hours ago, MexicanNinja said: As a Blood Angel player, I am loving what I've seen so far. Strategic reserve aggressors.....yup. I have already been using 2 Impulsors and limited targets on the table. My characters were either near units or left to 'fend' for themselves against the enemy. I hardly ever let Mepgiston or my support Chappy run off on their own. I'm really looking forward to the Chappy ob bike and the bike unit to help apply pressure with my double intercessor squad in Impulsors. I'm not making any conclusions about list building until I have the rules. What I will say is that I have 3 dreadnoughts ready to see play again. Not having the -1 makes those assault cannons awesome. It wasn't really a comment on BA as such, so much as joking about the fact that theirs is the only Faction Focus so far that hasn't been credited to someone specific, and was seemingly put together by the WHC team or something 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 Looks like Gee Dubya is releasing another set of pipes. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 10 hours ago, WestRider said: It wasn't really a comment on BA as such, so much as joking about the fact that theirs is the only Faction Focus so far that hasn't been credited to someone specific, and was seemingly put together by the WHC team or something It's now credited by someone specific. 😎 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, MexicanNinja said: It's now credited by someone specific. 😎 Who? Alan Smithee? I’m looking at it right now and it doesn’t have a byline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgrok Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 I would like to try crusade, but not sure what I will have by the time 9th drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Mulgrok said: I would like to try crusade, but not sure what I will have by the time 9th drops. Crusade asks you to build a 50 PL Order of Battle, which is going to be roughly 1,000 Points for most factions, but you don’t have to play missions with the full roster. Combat Patrol missions, for example, only use 25 PL’s worth of units drawn from your Order of Battle. So you could take the same collection of models, say a five-man Intercessor Squad, and list them on your Order of Battle twice just giving them different names and tracking their XP separately. You’ll just never be able to use both in the same game... at least, not until you buy some more toy soldiers! Incidentally, the various Start Collecting boxes all tend to average around 20 Power Level... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 22 hours ago, Sgt. Rock said: Looking forward to it, but I have one main concern: Power Level. Power Level is fine and dandy if you just want to throw down a quick game with a buddy, but unless they change it completely in 9th and offer a lot more granularity (at which point why not just use the points system?) then it remains hopelessly unbalanced. With PL, there is literally no reason not to take the best upgrades and wargear on every single unit you take, because it doesn't cost you anything extra. If they're adding the granularity to change that, that's fine, but like I said, why not just use the matched play points system that they've been using for, what, 25+ years now? I don't really get it. PL is fine for super friendly casual stuff, but all it takes is one try-hard in the league to ruin it for everyone. You could also simply talk to your opponent and not be a dick and take all of the expensive/best upgrades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Rock Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ish said: Crusade asks you to build a 50 PL Order of Battle, which is going to be roughly 1,000 Points for most factions, but you don’t have to play missions with the full roster. Combat Patrol missions, for example, only use 25 PL’s worth of units drawn from your Order of Battle. So you could take the same collection of models, say a five-man Intercessor Squad, and list them on your Order of Battle twice just giving them different names and tracking their XP separately. You’ll just never be able to use both in the same game... at least, not until you buy some more toy soldiers! Incidentally, the various Start Collecting boxes all tend to average around 20 Power Level... Also remember that with all the points being increased across the board, we can probably safely expect PL to go up, too. 2 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said: You could also simply talk to your opponent and not be a dick and take all of the expensive/best upgrades. Aaaaaand... if you'd read the other posts I was making, instead of reading one and jumping to calling me a dick, you'd see that I was worried about *other* people not following such gentlemen's rules. I was pointing out how easy it is to abuse PL, and I was specifically *not* relishing the idea of such abuse being out and about. Go back and read the rest of my posts to get context to my opinions before you jump to insults, please. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 B-b-but, @Brother Glacius...! That would require human interaction and socializing! You are a madman! A madman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 I didn't call you a dick, I was using the universal 'you' as in the player described who automatically takes the best stuff. Plus, you said there was "literally no reason" and I gave you one..not being a dick. It was a reason, not an insult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 Just now, Sgt. Rock said: Also remember that with all the points being increased across the board, we can probably safely expect PL to go up, too. Well, they’re rumored to be going up... We don’t know for certain yet. In any case, I think a combination of Combat Patrol (25 PL or 500 Points) games being fully supported with bespoke missions and objectives, combined with Crusade format encouraging something like a “Escalation League meets Narrative Campaign” playstyle, and the existence of Start Collecting boxes, this might be the best time for some to jump into WH40k. Plus, you don’t have to fret much about learning the rules since they’ll be new for all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Rock Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said: I didn't call you a dick, I was using the universal 'you' as in the player described who automatically takes the best stuff. Plus, you said there was "literally no reason" and I gave you one..not being a dick. It was a reason, not an insult. If that's the case, then I apologize for the misunderstanding. I'm still working on my morning coffee, so I'm not all there. Still, there are entirely too many people out there for whom "not being a dick" is irrelevant. I suppose that's where the talk comes in, but as someone who gets anxiety about any kind of confrontation, even something like this, it's very, very hard to have that talk in person. It's part of why 40k has become harder for me over the last few years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 I just had an idea for a new line of Ordo Fanaticus T-shirts... Perfect for gamers to help them out: "Don't be a dick, I'm here for fun." "I like pushing models and rolling dice, not arguing rules." "If you are worried about winning, may I suggest another opponent?" "My strategy for winning.......pew pew." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 A nerd with social anxiety? How novel. 😉 This is why I’ve repeatedly been saying that if Ordo decides to incorporate Crusade format gameplay into our regular game night pick-up game play, we should all agree to it beforehand. Maybe take a poll or something. It would also be very simple to “house rule” the whole system to use Matched Play Points instead of Power Level. Replace all references to PL in the rules with Points at a 1:20 ratio, boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 That's my concern with PL play... the unwritten rule to not be "That Guy". I have a unit of Crisis Suits equipped with CIBs (by FAR the best weapon choice). If I bring them to a PL game, I have to worry if I'm "That Guy". Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. Depends on my opponent. If I play a points-based game, I don't have to worry about it... I paid my points, I play my unit. Sure, it's still possible to be "That Guy" but I have to work a lot harder at it by bringing 3 maxed out Crisis Bombs rather than just optimal weapon choices on a unit. Of course, if I'm just "That Guy" by personality it really doesn't matter does it? 😄 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroStride Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 So, just as a slightly different take on this: A Battle Sister Squad of 5 is 4 PL. A Retributor Squad is 6 PL. (For reference an Immolator tank is 5 PL, 110pts). Without any gun upgrades, the Retributor Squad is the exact same thing as the Battle Sister Squad; same exact stat line. If you put multi-melta on them, it's 138 pts, which is totally in line for that 6 PL. The only purpose of taking a Retributor Squad is to put multi-melta on them, because while you can put heavy bolters or heavy flamers, you really don't need a lot of help taking down hoards. So if I take a Retributor Squad and put melta on them, then I have to explain myself and the point cost differences to each opponent in order to not be a dick? Another example, an Exorcist is 8 PL, 170pts with the 70pt gun. The 40pt alternative is next to useless. The purpose of the Exorcist is the 70pt gun. Much like the Retributors, that gun is incorporated into the PL cost. But that's "the best gun" so I'm being a dick for taking it? The problem isn't always PL; but the problem frequently is Marines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Rock Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, ZeroStride said: The problem isn't always PL; but the problem frequently is Marines. Yeah, that's definitely one of the problems. I hate it, because it makes me feel guilty for playing Marines. I've had games where my chapter rules have so completely overpowered my opponent, not because I'm being That Guy, but just because of the rules, that I feel like a dick. Even just tactical marines are overpowered when every bolter in the squad has exploding 6's. It's part of the reason I want to start a second army that isn't Marines. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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