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3 minutes ago, Dusldorf said:

Which is why you should always have "the talk" with your opponent beforehand. The level of doom and gloom you're bringing to this discussion is impressive.

Doom and gloom is what I do best! Also, I've had multiple instances where "the talk" has resulted in the other guy saying "Oh, yeah, I'm totally a casual player, this list isn't optimized at all." And then getting smeared like a grot under a Baneblade's treads, not because I'm a bad player, but because I didn't tune my list like a formula 1 care.

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As I've been saying for years, every time GW introduces a new product -- be it as major as a new edition or as minor as a redesigned paint brush cup -- the reactions are eerily predictable:  33%

I predict that the new edition will fix a lot of the imbalances of the current, the first half dozen new codices will be nicely balanced, and although the Internet hive-mind will figure out a couple q

Yeah. I just hate it when people voluntarily agree to exchange their wealth for the goods or services voluntarily being offered by others. 🙄

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1 minute ago, Sgt. Rock said:

I get that, and it's fine and good, but like I said, it only takes one or two guys to come in and dominate a league/campaign and sour fun for other people. If a game is balanced, that happens less, and unfortunately, GW games have always been, and probably always will be, imbalanced to one degree or another. The army book system shoulders a lot of blame for that. 

Games between competitive and casual players can be very one-sided in the fun department. If I bring a fluffy bunny list expecting to just goof off and toss some dice, and my opponent trots out his ITC winning netlist of doom and wipes me off the table in two turns, he may have enjoyed himself, but I sure didn't. And I feel like PL opens itself up to way too much opportunity for that kind of abuse. 

As you said, people should play the game the way they want to play it, but they also need to be prepared for their opponent to not have fun if they stomp their dick into the dirt because they were expecting a different type of game. 

The thing with a crusade game is that you can play crusade but I don't have to. So there is not a limitation to only playing people in the campaign. Lets say we have someone who doesn't want to play more than 750 points, then you pick units that equal that from your crusade list and give your opponent some bonuses.

Remember this starts off as a SMALL game of 50 PL which in theory is around 500 points but as pointed out that is  not accurate but that is fine.

You can still make this a point based system if you want. 

 

Its not hard to go "Ok for the creation of your Crusade Roster, you can have 50 PL or 500 points which ever is reached first" 

Boom, done, from there any thing you grab through Requisition Points is up to you.

 

Ish hits it on the head. My ork example is a perfect All comers unit but it will suffer as ALL orks do however from being too easy to shoot off the board, which means they are more likely to suffer battle scars. So sure I can sink a ton of PL into them more than a 5th of my starting amount but yeesh is it not always worth it

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1 minute ago, Sgt. Rock said:

Doom and gloom is what I do best! Also, I've had multiple instances where "the talk" has resulted in the other guy saying "Oh, yeah, I'm totally a casual player, this list isn't optimized at all." And then getting smeared like a grot under a Baneblade's treads, not because I'm a bad player, but because I didn't tune my list like a formula 1 care.

I hope you are not talking about any of the games with me....I didnt tune my ork lists...usually especially back them I was any meta for the most part. 

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9 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

No, not you. Mostly games with other people at other places, often in the distant past of previous editions. The games we've played have been pretty one-sided, but I think that's just because you're a better player than I am.

Fair, how has it been in Ordo for you then overall?

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1 hour ago, Sgt. Rock said:

Doom and gloom is what I do best! Also, I've had multiple instances where "the talk" has resulted in the other guy saying "Oh, yeah, I'm totally a casual player, this list isn't optimized at all." And then getting smeared like a grot under a Baneblade's treads, not because I'm a bad player, but because I didn't tune my list like a formula 1 care.

This is an indication that you need to do more before committing to a game: look at their list, or ask what's in it, compare it to yours, chat awhile before issuing/accepting a challenge. Making an informed decision always takes some effort. Just because you and your opponent had different definitions of "casual" doesn't mean "the talk" isn't the correct solution, nor does it make your pessimism more valid.

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@Lyraeus Honestly? At times it's been hit and miss. I've had games that were great, and I've had games that were less so. I do most of my 40k gaming at Fate & Fury, because while a lot of the players are toxic as human beings, there are two separate leagues, one for hardcore ITC players, and one for casual fluffy bunnies. The players that play in both leagues know what to expect from each league, and they act accordingly. Ordo has been awesome for Infinity, but like I said, I find there's a lot more consistency among Infinity players than 40k. But 40k at the clubhouse has been a bit of a gamble for me in the past, which is why I usually don't show up on Tuesdays much.

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4 minutes ago, Dusldorf said:

This is an indication that you need to do more before committing to a game: look at their list, or ask what's in it, compare it to yours, chat a while before issuing/accepting a challenge. Making an informed decision always takes some effort. Just because you and your opponent had different definitions of "casual" doesn't mean "the talk" isn't the correct solution, nor does it make your pessimism more valid.

Best point made. 40k has evolved so much from the days of when I started in 5th edition. The "Talk" has become far more common place. Gods I remember 5th edition where I would just get roflstomped week in and week out that it ruined my enjoyment of the game and once 6th ed came about I was done so the idea of the "Pre-game Talk" has been very important to me. 

 

I am not a fluff bunny but to be honest... I play orks primarily... their fluff is simple. Can we fit it? If yes put it on, if no, put it on anyways. 

6 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

@Lyraeus Honestly? At times it's been hit and miss. I've had games that were great, and I've had games that were less so. I do most of my 40k gaming at Fate & Fury, because while a lot of the players are toxic as human beings, there are two separate leagues, one for hardcore ITC players, and one for casual fluffy bunnies. The players that play in both leagues know what to expect from each league, and they act accordingly. Ordo has been awesome for Infinity, but like I said, I find there's a lot more consistency among Infinity players than 40k. But 40k at the clubhouse has been a bit of a gamble for me in the past, which is why I usually don't show up on Tuesdays much.

Thats how it will be anywhere. Try crusade out. See if Fate and Fury will play it there. Your Crusade from Fate and Fury transfer over no matter where you play. 

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3 hours ago, WestRider said:

I guess they couldn't find any playtester/tournament winner who was willing to have their name attached to positive statements about the Blood Angels?

As a Blood Angel player, I am loving what I've seen so far.  Strategic reserve aggressors.....yup.

I have already been using 2 Impulsors and limited targets on the table.

My characters were either near units or left to 'fend' for themselves against the enemy.  I hardly ever let Mepgiston or my support Chappy run off on their own.

I'm really looking forward to the Chappy ob bike and the bike unit to help apply pressure with my double intercessor squad in Impulsors.

I'm not making any conclusions about list building until I have the rules.  What I will say is that I have 3 dreadnoughts ready to see play again.  Not having the -1 makes those assault cannons awesome.

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7 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I only have played at Guardian with Ordo members... and I still get wiped turn 2!  Someday I will be decent at playing. Someday...

It’s not playing at Guardian that I’ve got a problem with, it’s several of the players who regularly play in their league... and it’s not a majority of them. But there are several That Guy’s who have spoiled the whole scene for me.

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1 hour ago, Brandon said:

I only have played at Guardian with Ordo members... and I still get wiped turn 2!  Someday I will be decent at playing. Someday...

I will play you! I am not super good but a few around here think I am a decent player ^_^ I know some tricks though 9th is killing a few like tri-pointing and such.

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After reading the leaked Crusade rules, I noticed something interesting. Your Order of Battle just needs to have one faction keyword in common. It doesn't say anything about only being drawn from one codex or whatever. So realistically, I could have, say, a small detachment of Rynnsguard on my OoB to accompany my Crimson Fists, and it would still be legit. Army might not count as Battle Forged, and I wouldn't get my chapter bonuses, but I could do it. 

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You determine if the army is Battle Forged after you’ve drawn units from your Order of Battle to form an army for any given game. So it’d be possible to have a Battle Forged Space Marine army one game, a Battle Forged Astra Militarum Imperial Guard army the next, and then a non-Battle Forged hybrid army the time after that... 

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It follows the current rules for creating Detachments in 9th. 

 

SO for Crsades you could have a Space Marine Chapter, some Astra Militarum, and Adeptus Soriatas in your Order of Battle. 

From there, when you play a game you create detachments from that Order of battle like you would in 9th edition so you would spend command points on different detachments so if you wanted a Patrol Detachment for your Astra Militarum and than a Battalion for your Space Marines you could do that. You are still battle forged so you get the benefits as each detachment is still wholly of one smaller faction but you lose an EXTRA valuable resource in the command points spent. 

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For my Orks and the same would be for Tau and Necrons, we would only be able to pick different Kultures so right now my Order of Battle has Deffskulls, but if I wanted some Goffs for some extra killy close combat I would need to take them in a new detachment to get their Kulture benefit 

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7 hours ago, MexicanNinja said:

As a Blood Angel player, I am loving what I've seen so far.  Strategic reserve aggressors.....yup.

I have already been using 2 Impulsors and limited targets on the table.

My characters were either near units or left to 'fend' for themselves against the enemy.  I hardly ever let Mepgiston or my support Chappy run off on their own.

I'm really looking forward to the Chappy ob bike and the bike unit to help apply pressure with my double intercessor squad in Impulsors.

I'm not making any conclusions about list building until I have the rules.  What I will say is that I have 3 dreadnoughts ready to see play again.  Not having the -1 makes those assault cannons awesome.

It wasn't really a comment on BA as such, so much as joking about the fact that theirs is the only Faction Focus so far that hasn't been credited to someone specific, and was seemingly put together by the WHC team or something

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