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46 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said:

So you know all of those models are still on sale on their web site right? Or they would be if they all weren't out of stock. The point being, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw the old marines and vehicles gone from the codex this year.

Not within the year.

This codex is just including the like 12 new primaris units or whatever. In the interim, more primaris units will be released. But when space marines get their 9.2 Ed Codex, I wouldn't be surprised to see small-marines begin to disappear.

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you can examine that blurry pic they showed of the table of contents of the new Space Marines Codex. rest assured, all the firstborn units are still in there. There are in fact more of them now, since Land Speeders and Predators now get different datasheets based on loadout.

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6 hours ago, Ish said:

Also in today’s news, another set of Errata brings the last couple of Psychic Awakening books up to snuff... 

And of deep concern to me and the other three people that have considered buying their miniatures, Valerian and Aleya remain completely unusable in a Battle-Forged army and still cost more points than anything else in the Adeptus Custodes army list except the two super-heavy aircraft. 

Valerian and Aleya bug me, as well! 

High five, I guess...

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Apply a few grains of salt, but apparently the Internet hive-mind has decoded the fuzzy text in the recent YouTube teaser video about the new codices. The Necrons will be getting some sub-faction specific rules:

Szarekhan:
- 5+ feel no pain vs mortal wounds
- Each unit may reroll one to-wound roll in shooting or close combat 
- If all units in the army have this dynastic code, then they get both command protocol directives from the Protocol of the Undying Legion when it is active (except for Dynastic Agents and C'tan Shards)
 
Sautekh:
- Reroll morale tests (note, not just failed tests)
- Rapid fire weapons make double the amount of attacks when within 18" instead of the normal rules
- If all units in the army have this dynastic code, then they get both command protocol directives from the Protocol of the Conquering Tyrant when it is active (except for Dynastic Agents and C'tan Shards)
 
Mephrit:
- Add 3" to ranged weapons (not pistols)
- Improve AP by 1 when in half range
- If all units in the army have this dynastic code, then they get both command protocol directives from the Protocol of the Vengeful Spirit when it is active (except for Dynastic Agents and C'tan Shards)
 
Novokh:
- Add 1 to charge rolls
- Improve melee AP by 1 when charging, when charged, and when Heroically Intervening or Intervened
- If all units in the army have this dynastic code, then they get both command protocol directives from the Protocol of the Hungry Void when it is active (except for Dynastic Agents and C'tan Shards)
 
Nephrekh:
- 6+ inv save
- When a model advances, it translocates instead. It auto rolls a 6 for the extra distance, and can't shoot
- When a model falls back or translocates, it can move through terrain and enemy units.
- If all units in the army have this dynastic code, then they get both command protocol directives from the Protocol of the Sudden Storm when it is active (except for Dynastic Agents and C'tan Shards)
 
Nihilakh:
- All models gain Objective Secured. Any models that already have Objective Secured count as two models for determining control of objectives
- AP -1 counts as AP 0 when wholly within your own Deployment Zone.
- If all units in the army have this dynastic code, then they get both command protocol directives from the Protocol of the Eternal Guardian when it is active (except for Dynastic Agents and C'tan Shards)

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On 7/27/2020 at 6:27 PM, CountElmdor said:

you can examine that blurry pic they showed of the table of contents of the new Space Marines Codex. rest assured, all the firstborn units are still in there. There are in fact more of them now, since Land Speeders and Predators now get different datasheets based on loadout.

This concerns me. My Predator is loaded with an AC and lascannons, which is not one of the standard described loadouts. I really hope they don't just invalidate my model. This is my biggest gripe about the direction Space Marines are going, and to a lesser extent, all of 40k. They're taking away all the customization options that made the game fun, they're taking away the opportunities to make them "Your Dudes." You buy the model, you get what's on the model, and you like it or leave. It's one of the things that always bugged me when I played Warmachine & Hordes. It's been my biggest gripe about Primaris since day one, and honestly, it's one of the reasons I came back to 40k in the first place, was the opportunity to tailor what my guys were carrying. There's a lot of really cool stuff coming down the pipe in 9th, but I'm really very concerned about the direction a lot of the game design is going in other regards.

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The auto-cannon turret has always been the exclusive provenance of the Blood Angels... So I wouldn’t panic yet.

But I wholly agree with the rest of your post. The “If it’s not in the box, it’s not in the book” design philosophy is terrible.

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You're thinking of the assault cannon on the Baal predator. The gatling one. This is just the single barrel bang-bang.

Specifically, the terms "Destructor" and "Annihilator" to denote anti-infantry and anti-tank loadouts on the Predators were basically just fluffy slang, not official, rigid definitions. Now I'm worried that they're going to pin down those names and not let you deviate from them. Good thing I 3D printed a twin lascannon turret for mine as an option.

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5 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Yeah, they've been separated out before. Both turret types have still always had access to both sponson types.

That's more of my point. I know they were canon descriptors, I'm just concerned about the possibility that they might take away the sponson choices. I mean, I've already 3D printed a twin lascannon turret, so I'll still be able to use the hull if they do that, but I'll be pretty peeved about it.

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I’m pretty sure one of the core principles of their rules writing is to not invalidate models. Certainly not ones still being sold and buildable solely from bits in the same box. I doubt there’s anything to worry about. My own Predator has lascannon sponsons, and of course you only get bits to do one full set of sponsons. I’m sure they’ll be usable no matter which main turret you go with. 

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16 hours ago, Ish said:
Apply a few grains of salt, but apparently the Internet hive-mind has decoded the fuzzy text in the recent YouTube teaser video about the new codices. The Necrons will be getting some sub-faction specific rules:

 

This is accurate with what I have seen as well. The Necrotyr discord and Reddit had this same day... Wish I could use it now

 

2 hours ago, Ish said:

I totally misread that. My bad.

Predator Destructor and Predator Annihilator have been canon designations for the two patterns dating back to Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader...

Yup the first is the Autocannon and Heavy Bolter and the latter is the full Las Cannon loadout but there is a ton of fluff of supporting a mix and match.

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Actually, it’s only the turret that matters. Sponsons are optional equipment, both in the rules and in-universe. Typically, the autocannon turreted Destructor gets heavy bolter sponsons to maximize its anti-infantry / anti-transport role and the twin-linked lascannon turreted Annihilator gets lascannon sponsons to maximize its anti-tank role; But Space Marines being all about tactical flexibility, it isn’t uncommon to make a jack-of-all-trades variant by swapping the sponson options around.

(There also used to be a Leman Russ Annihilator, a twin-linked lascannon turret on the indestructible iron box we all know and love and/or fear. I miss it.)

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Apparently Multi-melta is changing to heavy 2.  That explains the points difference.

edit: 3 devastator squads in drop pods with vulkan he'stan and an ancient for 30 multi-melta attacks rereolling everything...

edit2: supposedly the half range bonus will be changed to damage D6 with a minimum of 3 damage.  That would be in line with newer rules for other anti-armor weapons.

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1 hour ago, Mulgrok said:

Apparently Multi-melta is changing to heavy 2.  That explains the points difference.

edit: 3 devastator squads in drop pods with vulkan he'stan and an ancient for 30 multi-melta attacks rereolling everything...

edit2: supposedly the half range bonus will be changed to damage D6 with a minimum of 3 damage.  That would be in line with newer rules for other anti-armor weapons.

Please...no...just no. Space marines already have everything,  they do not need more things.

 

I mean seriously Aggressors alone are broken as it is. 

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If multimeltas change to Heavy 2 they better also be paired with a massive increase in points as it would make it, statistically, a better anti-tank weapon than the Lascannon at the same ranges as the Lascannon and a faaar better one within it’s short range.

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28 minutes ago, Ish said:

If multimeltas change to Heavy 2 they better also be paired with a massive increase in points as it would make it, statistically, a better anti-tank weapon than the Lascannon at the same ranges as the Lascannon and a faaar better one within it’s short range.

Are they getting increased range though?  They might remain 24".

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Here's the "Mathhammer" assuming a fairly standard Space Marine BS3+ versus a Leman Russ (T: 8 Sv: 3+):

Lascannon Range: 48", Type: Heavy 1, Str: 9 AP: -3, Dmg: d6, Special: None; BS 3+ Total Damage versus a Leman Russ: 1.296

Current Multimelta Range: 24", Type: Heavy 1, Str: 8 AP: -4, Dmg: d6, Special: When resolving an attack made with this weapon against a unit that is within half range, roll two D6 when inflicting damage with it and discard one of the results; BS 3+ Total Damage versus a Leman Russ: 1.167 over half range, 1.49 within half range

Rumored Multimelta Range: 24", Type: Heavy 2, Str: 8 AP: -4, Dmg: d6, Special: When resolving an attack made with this weapon against a unit that is within half range, a damage roll of 1 or 2 counts as 3 instead; BS 3+ Total Damage versus a Leman Russ: 2.333 over half range, 3.33 within half range.

Yes, the Lascannon can reach out a further 24' than the Multimelta, which has always been the big tradeoff between the two weapons. One hit harder, but you had to get right up in their face.  But with these rumored changes to the multimelta, it will be significantly outperforming the Lascannon at every range up to 24"... and on the newly reduced tables that everyone wants to use? Yowza.

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18 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Please...no...just no. Space marines already have everything,  they do not need more things.

 

I mean seriously Aggressors alone are broken as it is. 

When everything is broken, nothing is.

Just everybody play exclusively space marines, and it's all fine!

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