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22 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Please...no...just no. Space marines already have everything,  they do not need more things.

 

I mean seriously Aggressors alone are broken as it is. 

Yeah, they're great against knights, flyers, the awesome dreads from forgeworld, mortal wound spams, anything with -2 AP...

Yeah, broken they are.

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3 hours ago, Munkie said:

When everything is broken, nothing is.

Just everybody play exclusively space marines, and it's all fine!

The really annoying thing is that (minus one or two quirks that were addressed in Errata) the first Codex: Space Marines of eighth edition was a very well-balanced book... It was the Bolter Discipline rule, some of the supplements and the second Codex: Space Marines that turned them into monsters.

 

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On 7/29/2020 at 4:11 PM, Ish said:

Actually, it’s only the turret that matters. Sponsons are optional equipment, both in the rules and in-universe. Typically, the autocannon turreted Destructor gets heavy bolter sponsons to maximize its anti-infantry / anti-transport role and the twin-linked lascannon turreted Annihilator gets lascannon sponsons to maximize its anti-tank role; But Space Marines being all about tactical flexibility, it isn’t uncommon to make a jack-of-all-trades variant by swapping the sponson options around.

(There also used to be a Leman Russ Annihilator, a twin-linked lascannon turret on the indestructible iron box we all know and love and/or fear. I miss it.)

Pardon me, the correct way, and only acceptable way, to kit out a predator is with a flamestorm cannon turret and heavy flamer sponsors.

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29 minutes ago, Ish said:

The really annoying thing is that (minus one or two quirks that were addressed in Errata) the first Codex: Space Marines of eighth edition was a very well-balanced book... It was the Bolter Discipline rule, some of the supplements and the second Codex: Space Marines that turned them into monsters.

 

Balanced? Ehhhhh Bolter Discipline was a great rule that helped Space Marines come from bottom tier and over paying for units to having just enough fire power to deal with hordes better. 

 

Everything after that however has been EXCESSIVE 

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Someone has leaked the stats for the new Space Marine gun-turret and the Ultramario Kart: 

image.thumb.jpeg.c9f03fe473206809fe466b329d9a54e8.jpeg
 

This is probably the source of the rumored Multimelta changes we were discussing the other day. 

Current Multimelta has a Range 24‚ÄĚ, Type:¬†Heavy 1,¬†Str:¬†8¬†AP:¬†-4,¬†Dmg:¬†d6,¬†Special:¬†When resolving an attack made with this weapon against a unit that is within half range, roll two D6 when inflicting damage¬†with it and discard one of the results;¬†BS 3+ Total Damage¬†versus a Leman Russ:¬†1.167 over half range, 1.49 within half range.

Leaked Multimelta has a Range 24‚ÄĚ, Type:¬†Heavy 2,¬†Str:¬†8¬†AP:¬†-4,¬†Dmg:¬†d6,¬†Special:¬†When an attack made with this weapon hits a target that is within half range, this attack has a Damage characteristic of D6+2;¬†BS 3+ Total Damage¬†versus a Leman Russ: 2.33 over half range, 3.667 within half range.

If this extends to multimeltas throughout the Space Marine range and not just the Invader ATV, then I can see almost no reason to ever use another heavy weapon.

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37 minutes ago, Ish said:

Someone has leaked the stats for the new Space Marine gun-turret and the Ultramario Kart: 

image.thumb.jpeg.c9f03fe473206809fe466b329d9a54e8.jpeg
 

This is probably the source of the rumored Multimelta changes we were discussing the other day. 

Current Multimelta has a Range 24‚ÄĚ, Type:¬†Heavy 1,¬†Str:¬†8¬†AP:¬†-4,¬†Dmg:¬†d6,¬†Special:¬†When resolving an attack made with this weapon against a unit that is within half range, roll two D6 when inflicting damage¬†with it and discard one of the results;¬†BS 3+ Total Damage¬†versus a Leman Russ:¬†1.167 over half range, 1.49 within half range.

Leaked Multimelta has a Range 24‚ÄĚ, Type:¬†Heavy 2,¬†Str:¬†8¬†AP:¬†-4,¬†Dmg:¬†d6,¬†Special:¬†When an attack made with this weapon hits a target that is within half range, this attack has a Damage characteristic of D6+2;¬†BS 3+ Total Damage¬†versus a Leman Russ: 2.33 over half range, 3.667 within half range.

If this extends to multimeltas throughout the Space Marine range and not just the Invader ATV, then I can see almost no reason to ever use another heavy weapon.

There are leaks for the necrons as well but the space marines blow it all out of the water

 

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1 minute ago, Ish said:

If they had just left it at Heavy 1, it wouldn’t be a problem.

For what the Multi Melta? Yea it would of been nice but not as good. The ATV's are stupidly cheap per wound and are fast and have good weapons. Its stupid right now.

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The ATV basically has the same stats as the Attack Bike (W: 8 versus W: 4, but the PL [and presumably the point cost] is also doubled) and no one exactly breaks into a cold sweat when they see an Attack Bike on the table...

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1 minute ago, Ish said:

The ATV basically has the same stats as the Attack Bike (W: 8 versus W: 4, but the PL [and presumably the point cost] is also doubled) and no one exactly breaks into a cold sweat when they see an Attack Bike on the table...

Point costs are already released. They were released in the Munitorum book. They are 80 points for the Onslaught and 85 for the MM version vs 55 for the Attack Bike. 3 Attack Bikes for 2 ATV's. 16 wounds, 4 MM shots, 12 Twin Boltgun shots always vs 12 wounds 2 MM shots 6-12 Twin Boltgun shots always. 

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Guess I will need to make a Salamander army of:

3x 3 multi-melta ATV

3x 5 Flamestorm Aggressors

3x 3 Eradicators

Vulkan he'stan

Chaplain on Bike

Should come out to 1995 pts.

 

EDIT: approximately 36 melta shots, 58 bolter shots, 366 flamer shots possible.

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19 hours ago, Ish said:

The ATV basically has the same stats as the Attack Bike (W: 8 versus W: 4, but the PL [and presumably the point cost] is also doubled) and no one exactly breaks into a cold sweat when they see an Attack Bike on the table...

The ATV will take resources from your enemy to deal with.  8 wounds is a nice increase and add in how terrain effects the battlefield now.

 

I foresee the gattling option as the preferred option.

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3 hours ago, Mulgrok said:

Something I didn't notice at first: the Onslaught Gatling Cannon is labeled at heavy 8 instead of the current 6.  Typo?

Maybe. Maybe not. I am only trusting leaks we are getting from boxes. Currently necron players have seen the instructions and stats for the Spyder and Praetorians. Since GW would not put non 9th ed stats in those as it would be expensive to change overall, I am trusting them more than these "Whats Coming Next" leaks

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10 hours ago, Mulgrok said:

Something I didn't notice at first: the Onslaught Gatling Cannon is labeled at heavy 8 instead of the current 6.  Typo?

I would take 3 of those in a 2k list.  That's alot of mobile firepower.  14" move with a 24" range gun and no -1 for moving and shooting.

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So now that the multi-melta has made the lascannon largely obsolete, the only question is how long until the space marine lascannon goes to Str 10, AP-4?

Since their new design philosophy is "if something exists in 40k, then space marines must have the best version of that thing" then a boost to space marine lascannons is inevitable, isn't it? 

I really like the 9th edition rules, but I've got a sneaking suspicion that 9th edition will be the least diverse meta the game has ever seen. That appears to be the goal.

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1 hour ago, Ish said:

I am still hoping (probably against all reason) that the upcoming codex serves as a massive ‚Äúnerf‚ÄĚ to Space Marines... Somehow.

 

I think that's a realistic expectation for their 2nd 9th edition codex, but more likely in 10th ed. Making them absurdly over-the-top good is the best way to change over that model line quickly. They won't power them down until the changeover is complete.

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10 minutes ago, MexicanNinja said:

 No one's concerned with admech and i find that confusing.  Robots are going to go off and dune crawlers are amazeballs!!!

I am looking forward to seeing what random skew lists shoot through the meta. When you can anticipate at 60-75% presence of a single codex (and subsidiaries) you can tailor a list more specifically. 

I've heard good things about Tyranids too, but can't speak to myself. Cheap/fast troops and monstrous creatures. Checks out ūü§∑‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ?

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