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I think that might be a factor in the creep, they've lost sense of the relative scale of in-universe power. When you have all these unique weapons, it leaves the base weapons behind, so they've got to creep up.

Only, heavy bolters are going to make autocannons largely obsolete unless they go to damage 3. Multi-meltas are going to make lascannons (and plasmacannons in a lot of cases) largely obsolete, unless there are buffs there too.

Lasguns are made out of lasers, which are certainly more advanced than autoguns, shouldn't they be strength 4? It hits harder than a human fist, right?

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As I've been saying for years, every time GW introduces a new product -- be it as major as a new edition or as minor as a redesigned paint brush cup -- the reactions are eerily predictable:  33%

Yeah. I just hate it when people voluntarily agree to exchange their wealth for the goods or services voluntarily being offered by others. 🙄

I predict that the new edition will fix a lot of the imbalances of the current, the first half dozen new codices will be nicely balanced, and although the Internet hive-mind will figure out a couple q

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18 hours ago, Munkie said:

I think that might be a factor in the creep, they've lost sense of the relative scale of in-universe power. When you have all these unique weapons, it leaves the base weapons behind, so they've got to creep up.

Only, heavy bolters are going to make autocannons largely obsolete unless they go to damage 3. Multi-meltas are going to make lascannons (and plasmacannons in a lot of cases) largely obsolete, unless there are buffs there too.

Lasguns are made out of lasers, which are certainly more advanced than autoguns, shouldn't they be strength 4? It hits harder than a human fist, right?

Heavy Bolters are going to 1 shot each so it is unlikely that Autocannons will be obsolete. Multi-Meltas should be more powerful overall than a Lascannon in terms of damage but range is an important part of things. 

 

 

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I think people are basing that rumor on the leaked instruction booklet rules summary for the Invictus Warsuit with it’s heavy bolter pistol thingy. I’m hoping that the regular heavy bolter remains, more or less, unchanged in its rules and role: slightly heavier hits, faster rate of fire, and longer range than the squad’s small arms but still mostly an anti-infantry platform. It should be able to threaten lighter vehicles and heavy infantry, but not excel at that. 

But, most importantly, I hope that it always goes Dakka Dakka Dakka and not just Blam! 

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On 8/13/2020 at 5:41 PM, Inquisitor66 said:

I think they are trying make the rules hew closer to the fiction they established. Whole also emphasizing and embellishing the difference between similar weapons.

I like this direction they are taking, assuming that's what they are intending.  

I don't disagree with the direction they're taking it, they're just starting at the absolute worst possible place for that direction.

If you want to create an edition where "everything is cranked to 11", then you don’t start with the army that was already cranked to 12 last edition and crank that to 13.

Telling players they will eventually get cranked to 10 whenever you get around to it doesn't make them feel better. Especially because I've got a hunch poison is going to continue to be a coin flip as to whether or not it functions. Just like in the fluff, where sometimes they accidentally just load throwing darts and forget the poison half the time. Poison wounding everyone on 2+ would fit the fiction they established!

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25 minutes ago, Mulgrok said:

Does stuff like Transhuman Physiology override poison?  How does "can't be wounded on unmodified wound rolls of 1,2,3" interract with the "always wounds" rule?

Yes I believe so. It mandates you ignore wound rolls of certain numbers. 

 

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13 minutes ago, MexicanNinja said:

I don't know why, but I have no motivation to paint my blood angels.  I want nothing to do with playing a space marine army.  I'm almost to the point that I am going to try and sell off my blood angels just so I don't have any ties to these stupid marine rules.

Anyone else having problems getting motivation to paint?

I have not painted in like a week. I got my Doomsday Arks in so I am building them between things at work

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I feel you on the sudden aversion to Space Marines. I’ve always liked them and when Eighth Edition and the Imperial Fists Christmas bunbdlemdropped I bought myself an army of them. Due to work and family commitments, I barely got to use them... and when the second codex dropped, Space Marines got stupidly good.

I lost all interest in playing them at that point. I still love the models, but I’m probably gonna just leave them in their storage bin for a few years.

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1 minute ago, Lyraeus said:

I have not painted in like a week. I got my Doomsday Arks in so I am building them between things at work

The main thing is I just don't want anything to do with marines at this point.  More wounds, more ignore LOS guns, better chain swords (even though they are the same size as the rest), better bolt guns, i just don't like the rules for them.

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Just now, MexicanNinja said:

The main thing is I just don't want anything to do with marines at this point.  More wounds, more ignore LOS guns, better chain swords (even though they are the same size as the rest), better bolt guns, i just don't like the rules for them.

You are hitting exactly why I wont build a marine army. Sisters of Battle will likely be my next army

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Just now, Lyraeus said:

You are hitting exactly why I wont build a marine army. Sisters of Battle will likely be my next army

It sucks because I love the BA lore and what they represent but I just don't want anything to do with them game wise and I was chuggin along with this OFCC army until all this COVID stuff happened.  Now I just have an unfinished army which I have no desire to finish.

On the bright side, I did pick up the first box for a Tempestus Scions army and I am planning on starting the work on them.

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4 minutes ago, MexicanNinja said:

It sucks because I love the BA lore and what they represent but I just don't want anything to do with them game wise and I was chuggin along with this OFCC army until all this COVID stuff happened.  Now I just have an unfinished army which I have no desire to finish.

On the bright side, I did pick up the first box for a Tempestus Scions army and I am planning on starting the work on them.

That sounds fun!

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Part of me is very tempted to use Intercessor bodies, but slap regular boltguns on seven of them, a chainsword on the sarge, a regular flamer or plasmagun on another, and a regular heavy bolter or missile launcher on the last.  Space Marine Tacti-Tall Squad!

As conversion projects go, it wouldn’t be that difficult, although it would be time consuming...

Still, I’m enjoying the heck out of Adeptus Custodes right now and plan to stick with them. I think my next army project is going to be a xenos faction, just because I’m contrarian by nature and feel like I ought to play xenos. I just wish that there was a non-horde or non-vehicle intensive xenos army of some kind. 

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1 hour ago, Mulgrok said:

I will stop using primaris units, because they did not increase cost enough.

Its not necessarily a Primaris issue. You also should not feel bad for playing what you like. 

For me it is all the tools you get with those choices. More strats, relics, abilities, etc than any other army.

It doesn't make Marines OP just extremely tough to play against. 

 

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What irks me about Marines (under their current codex, I still hope the new one will fix it) is that they moved from being “The Mario” to being “The Ace.”

The main schtick of the Space Marines were that they were the generalist faction, good at everything but not great at any one thing. Blood Angels and Space Wolves were better at mêlée, but still not as great at it as true mêlée focused factions like Khorne; Imperial Fists and Raven Guard were better at shooting, but still not as great as true shooty armies like Tau or Imperial Guard. So on and so forth for all the chapters and whatever their specialty was.

But the current codex with its super doctrines, specialist units, and stratagems out the whazoo has moved them from Jack of All Trades into Masters of All Trades.

 

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1 hour ago, Ish said:

What irks me about Marines (under their current codex, I still hope the new one will fix it) is that they moved from being “The Mario” to being “The Ace.”

The main schtick of the Space Marines were that they were the generalist faction, good at everything but not great at any one thing. Blood Angels and Space Wolves were better at mêlée, but still not as great at it as true mêlée focused factions like Khorne; Imperial Fists and Raven Guard were better at shooting, but still not as great as true shooty armies like Tau or Imperial Guard. So on and so forth for all the chapters and whatever their specialty was.

But the current codex with its super doctrines, specialist units, and stratagems out the whazoo has moved them from Jack of All Trades into Masters of All Trades.

 

Fair 🥺

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12 hours ago, Ish said:

But the current codex with its super doctrines, specialist units, and stratagems out the whazoo has moved them from Jack of All Trades into Masters of All Trades.

 

Not that it's right, but when was the last time Marines were the powerhouse? Never really hit that stride. So this will be their time to shine like many factions get. Is it over the top? Maybe, time will tell. But every time we've seen power shifts, each following codex usually does a decent job of adjusting power creep up too. 

Long story short, totally agree. But I don't play 40k as a competitive win at all costs game. Thus, the games I do play will be great regardless of that power creep.

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Space Marines were really strong in Third, Fifth, and Sixth Editions. With Space Wolves a real powerhouse in Fourth, Grey Knights in Sixth, and Deathwatch in Eighth. (Not technically Space Marines, but still... They still add to the perception of “Space Marines are the favorite child.”)

Having said that, I don’t feel like they were as strong, relative to the rest of the field, as the second Eighth Edition codex has made them currently.

I’m under no illusions that WH40k will ever be a perfectly balanced game, but that should still be the design goal. I feel like Eighth Edition was about as close to that goal as the game has ever been... except for Codex: Space Marines 2.0

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