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3 hours ago, andy said:

I think increasing the damage capacity of units and the damage dealt by weapons is another attempt at widening the design space. Can't imagine they'll ever move away from d6 based system, and they need to find breathing room somehow.

I agree that it's part of why they're going this direction, the problem is it makes fragile things even extra more fragile. As a drukhari player, the extra damage makes our paltry defenses ever more useless. A 5++ on our vehicles is handy against high quality, low quantity attacks like lascannons and meltaguns. But if people are pouring damage 3 weapons into them, they're dead unless I roll hot.

Having FNP 6+ across all my infantry is functionally useless against damage 2 weapons. 1/36 chance for it to matter.

This edition is designed specifically to make glass-cannon armies bad since it's about board presence and not killing power. Drukhari are designed to be a glass cannon. Except the glass is getting more fragile, and the cannon compares less and less favorably to the cannons of much, much more durable armies.

When the new heavy incursor troops squads can shoot harder than your shootiest heavy support option, you know you're [big bad swear word]ed. And considering GW fundamentally does not understand how the army functions and has written each DE codex since 5th during a single lunch break, I have little hope that they'll haul us out of the basement whenever we get our codex. We'll still have 1 wound, pointless FNP, and wildly overpriced 1 damage poison attacks.

I'm looking forward to 10th edition though! 

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Yeah. I just hate it when people voluntarily agree to exchange their wealth for the goods or services voluntarily being offered by others. 🙄

As I've been saying for years, every time GW introduces a new product -- be it as major as a new edition or as minor as a redesigned paint brush cup -- the reactions are eerily predictable:  33%

I predict that the new edition will fix a lot of the imbalances of the current, the first half dozen new codices will be nicely balanced, and although the Internet hive-mind will figure out a couple q

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I hear you. My current main army is Orks. My play group is super casual, play-for-fun. Even with that, I don't see a game where Space Marines don't just shoot my Speed Freeks completely off the board. My other main army? T'au, whose 8th Ed playstyle I'm completely not interested in. Hopefully the Xenos codexes deliver. If they don't, I guess 9e will just be my Imperial Fists.... effectively 30k played with 40k rules.

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4 hours ago, andy said:

I hear you. My current main army is Orks. My play group is super casual, play-for-fun. Even with that, I don't see a game where Space Marines don't just shoot my Speed Freeks completely off the board. My other main army? T'au, whose 8th Ed playstyle I'm completely not interested in. Hopefully the Xenos codexes deliver. If they don't, I guess 9e will just be my Imperial Fists.... effectively 30k played with 40k rules.

Yeah, some friends and I are starting a friendly Crusade campaign which I think will be a lot of fun. Although Drukhari also don't function at small points levels since each of their subfactions have gaping holes that are designed to be plugged with multiple detachments. So I'm using my unpainted harlequins. 

We've got 2 ork, and a tau player, too. Shockingly, our white scars player took a loss in week 1 to orks. That 3 CP strategem to replenish a unit of 30 boyz is so good at 25PL!

I just have no interest in "competitive" 9th.

 

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I have been playing with my Eldar... trying various forces and the glass cannon is really fragile lol... is an understatement.  I find the primaris and new ed Marines pretty hard to deal with.  They hit really hard - and are really tough.  I have been trying various Eldar army lists - and really the only equal I can come up with is my Wraithwall list - just for pure staying power and killing power.  It gets boring - so I only have played that list a few times before changing things up.

I am working on my AdMech for a change of pace.  But I am really hoping for a good Xeno codex update in the new year.  

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Core Units and Characters

 
 

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In last weekend’s epic preview, The Codex Show, we showed you a few brand-new datasheets that feature in the upcoming books, one being that of the Heavy Intercessors. Some of you eagle-eyed readers out there noticed the introduction of a new keyword – Core – and we wanted to take this opportunity to tell you a bit more about it and the impact it will have on the future of Warhammer 40,000.

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Core Units

The Core keyword is used to identify units that form the fighting… well, core, of an army. These are most commonly represented by units of line infantry, though this doesn’t mean it’s exclusive to Troops, nor just Infantry.

In the case of the first two books, Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Necrons many Elite units such as Terminator Squads and Lychguard, as well as Fast Attack units like Bike Squads and Tomb Blades, have the Core keyword. Even some Vehicles will be Core units too, where appropriate.

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But what does it mean to be a Core unit?

Aura Abilities

Moving forwards, many of the most powerful aura abilities will only affect Core units from a Character’s (sub-)faction. This represents a more realistic form of in-situ command, with Characters acting like they’re supposed to from a narrative perspective. After all, a Space Marine Captain should be issuing orders and inspiring units of his battle-brothers on the front line, not babysitting a squadron of Repulsor Executioners at the back of the battlefield!

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As an example, let’s take a look at the updated Rites of Battle aura ability shared by all varieties of Space Marines Captain.

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A crucial side-effect of this change is that Characters themselves won’t be affected by aura abilities that utilise the Core keyword – they’re supposed to be commanding others, not inspiring themselves to do better! In the example shown above, the Space Marine Captain won’t be able to re-roll his hit rolls of 1 and will instead have to rely on his own merit to strike home. To be fair, he’ll usually hit on a 2+ anyway!

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Nor will the aforementioned Captain be affected by a Lieutenant’s Tactical Precision aura ability – a Captain has been there, seen it, and done it all, which is why he’s in charge and has such an amazing profile in the first place! However – and very much as intended – a nearby Core unit of Space Marines will be significantly more effective when in the presence of their Captain and/or a Lieutenant, just as they should be.

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As mentioned earlier, these changes to aura abilities and the introduction of Core units will be rolled out with each new codex, starting with those of the Space Marines and Necrons. Head on over to the webstore today and make sure you’re fully stocked up on Core units to get the most out of your Characters’ aura abilities!

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This is kinda going to suck for armies that get their 9th ed codices first (though Marines don't get to complain about anything these days) but once it's fully rolled out, I think it's going to be very good for the health of the game. And let's be honest, Marines are the ones this nerf bat is being directed at the most. I like it.

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A much needed and very sensible change.

Probably safe to assume that all Troops units will become Core, plus most Infantry Elites and Heavy Support units that aren’t also characters (so Terminators, yes; Apothecary, no).

(Fun Side-Note: There are already a dozen threads on the various WH40k Reddit boards and other forums where salty players are bemoaning that their triple Leviathan Dreadnought and double Smash-Captain list is now “useless” and that WH40k is ruined forever. So, huzzah!)

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1 minute ago, Mulgrok said:

Just pair the smash captain with a smash chaplain for reroll all hits in combat.  People haven't used Litany of Hate for so long they forgot it exists?

EDIT: I am assuming active abilities that effect an area are not the same as "auras".

It depends on how it's worded in the codex, we won't know until that drops. The Chaplain may only affect core units, as well. It looks like they're trying to tone back how easy it is to buff characters into being mega-monsters that kick the tar out of everything in their path.

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I can see a case being made, either way, for active abilities working on just “Core” units.

Narratively: on the one hand, a Chaplain is supposed to be a figure of inspiration to all members of his Chapter; On the other hand, Chapter Masters and Captains are already masters of combat with decades (maybe centuries) of experience who might appreciate the stirring words of the Chaplain are already at the peak of prowess... and a Thunderfire Cannon or a Whirlwind Missile Launcher ain’t gonna ain’t any better because it was “inspired.”

Mechanically: one the one hand, the player has to position the buffing unit, use the buffing ability, and there might be a mechanical chance of failure (a die roll of some kind); On the other hand, does a 2+ to hit really need to be a 2+ to hit with a re-roll?

 

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So, someone on Reddit is saying they went through screenshots from the codex preview video looking for what abilities were keyed to the Core keyword. He's saying this is what he found: 

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Psychic Powers:

  • Veil of Time: Unaffected

  • Might of Heroes: Core or Character

  • Null Zone: Not applicable

  • Psychic Scourge: Not applicable

  • Fury of the Ancients: Not Applicable

  • Psychic Fortress: Cut off but seems unaffected

Note- The Obscuration Discipline seems to be unchanged on this front, but I can only see 2 powers.

Litanies

  • Litany of Hate: Core or Character

  • Litany of Faith: Core or Character

  • Catechism of Fire: Core or Character

  • Exhortation of Rage: Core or Character (Note, this is gonna be +1 to wound in melee on 1 unit)

  • Mantra of Strength: Not Applicable

  • Recitation of Focus: Core or Character

  • Canticle of Hate: Core or Character

Warlord Traits

  • Storm of Fire: Core only

As always, caveat emptor.

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7 hours ago, Ish said:

A much needed and very sensible change.

Probably safe to assume that all Troops units will become Core, plus most Infantry Elites and Heavy Support units that aren’t also characters (so Terminators, yes; Apothecary, no).

(Fun Side-Note: There are already a dozen threads on the various WH40k Reddit boards and other forums where salty players are bemoaning that their triple Leviathan Dreadnought and double Smash-Captain list is now “useless” and that WH40k is ruined forever. So, huzzah!)

YAY! 

I got into it with a Marine player in my TTS Crusade group... He was mad that he couldnt play Herohammer the same and I told him I was happy he had to play the game much like the rest of us non marine players. 

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I don’t mind the idea of a Space Marine chapter relying heavily on their heroes. The crusading knightly order aesthetic is kind of the idiom for Dark Angels, Black Templars, Blood Angels, et cetera. So having a bigger than life “paladin” or “warrior-king” leading the charge is a fitting part of the game’s tone...

So I don’t want to see them completely remove “HeroHammer,” but I do want to see them dial it back.

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33 minutes ago, Ish said:

I don’t mind the idea of a Space Marine chapter relying heavily on their heroes. The crusading knightly order aesthetic is kind of the idiom for Dark Angels, Black Templars, Blood Angels, et cetera. So having a bigger than life “paladin” or “warrior-king” leading the charge is a fitting part of the game’s tone...

So I don’t want to see them completely remove “HeroHammer,” but I do want to see them dial it back.

If they were like Harlequins where the Hero's were essential then sure, but in reality, does Space Marines REALLY need "Re roll all hits"? to be good? I dont think they do

 

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4 hours ago, Ish said:

Frankly, I don’t think they need any re-roll auras. But, I’m pragmatic enough to be happy that they’re just going to be handing out re-rolls to fewer units.

Rerolls are a way to balance out an elite units shooting. The Issue marines come up with however is that they have more shooting than most horde armies so the Rerolls just make it oppriesive. HOPEFULLY Core units for them will be things like Tactical squads, Devastator squads, things like that while NOT being Aggressors, Eradicators, Centurions, etc. 

This also lets GW do something that could turn REALLY bad and that is let the supplemental codices have Core units that are different from the standard. So for instance Salamanders could have Eradicators as Core while Dark Angels have Terminators

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I dunno; Making certain units into Core for some chapters exclusively, say Bikers for White Scars or Assault Squads for Blood Angels, would be a pretty easy rule to implement. It also wouldn’t be unprecedented, since in past codices they’d have certain Special Characters make certain units into Troops or something else along those lines.

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5 minutes ago, Ish said:

I dunno; Making certain units into Core for some chapters exclusively, say Bikers for White Scars or Assault Squads for Blood Angels, would be a pretty easy rule to implement. It also wouldn’t be unprecedented, since in past codices they’d have certain Special Characters make certain units into Troops or something else along those lines.

Easy rule to implement, yes, however it means they are balanced differently. Let's say Aggressors are Core for Ultramarines but not Imperial Fists, Aggressors should cost more inherently for Ultramarines than Imperial Fists, while the Plasma toting Primaris could be core for Dark Angles so they should cost more.

The reason for the base cost difference is due to being able TOO be affected by rerolls.

The issue is, I dont see GW doing that which means it is likely an all or nothing. If they surprise me and do it that way and take the time to increase points by 3-5ppm then it would be interesting and fun.

 

Regardless of all of that, what I want is the Forge World book... i want to know what is happening to my Chinorks!

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1 minute ago, Ish said:

If the cost of the unit(s) handing out the buff is appropriate, than the cost of the unit(s) receiving the buff shouldn’t matter.

Sure it does. The unit handing out the buff is costed for the buff not for how many units can get the buff.

Things that can get the buff need to cost something for being able to use said buff otherwise there is no meaningful difference between chapters other than being able to give X or Y unit a reroll.

 

Those units need to pay for their "Core" status

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aggressors are supposed to be pushing forward, ahead of the main army.  The problem is they gave the bolter ones way too much range.  Flamestorm aggressors can't sit back for rerolls if I want them to do anything.

EDIT: the boltstorm ones should be 12" range, and the grenade harness should not get to fire twice.

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