Dusldorf Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 After much noodling before points dropped today, plus some additional cuts/edits once they did, I settled on a list with which to start playing games of 9th ed. I've always liked soup for the utility options it provides; this list may not deliver the strongest board control, or shooting, or mobility, but it can do all three competitively, and it's designed to take all comers. A couple of combos that are worth pointing out: The inquisitor and GK strike squads: the former's warlord trait gives me a 12" radius Ld 10 bubble that buffs the Purge Soul power, plus I can Terrify a unit to give them an additional -1 Ld. Against otherwise tough units like Riptides, suddenly each strike squad is doing up to 7 mortal wounds on the turn it drops in. Taking three detachments lets me start each game with both a Culexus and a Vindicare. Basically I'm getting extra value out of my third detachment, since I'll rarely if ever have to pay 2cp to swap either of these assassins for a Callidus or Eversor. (As a side note, the Callidus' cp tax ability feels much less valuable in 9th ed because everyone gains 1cp at the start of each turn; if I can't deplete someone's cp pool early, or force them to make really tough choices, then I'm not as into it.) Here's the list: 2k imperial soup (AM, AS, GK) [680] AM battalion (-2cp) Detachment battalion (-3cp) warlord (+3cp) Strats vigilus: emperor's fist (-1cp) tank ace (-1cp) No slot doctrine: gunnery experts, jury-rigged repairs [100] culexus HQ [190] tank commander (155), heavy bolter (15), battlecannon (20), tank ace: master mechanic, relic: hammer of sunderance (free) [205] tank commander (155), heavy bolter (15), punisher (35), tank ace: master mechanic [35] company commander (35), chainsword, laspistol, warlord Troops [50] 10 guardsmen [50] 10 guardsmen [50] 10 guardsmen ==== [880] AS patrol (-4cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) Strats open the reliquaries (-1cp) arbiter of the emperor's will (-1cp) No slot conviction: valorous heart [63] ordo hereticus inquisitor (60), storm bolter (3), chainsword, psyker, terrify, relic: blackshroud, WT: formidable resolve HQ [60] canoness (50), blessed blade (10), bolt pistol, wrath of the emperor [195] triumph of st katherine (195) Troops [55] 5 sisters (55), chainsword Elites [45] imagifier (45), tale of the stoic Fast attack [72] dominions (60), 4 storm bolters (12) Heavy support [195] exorcist (150), exorcist missile launcher (30), heavy bolter (15) [195] exorcist (150), exorcist missile launcher (30), heavy bolter (15) ==== [440] GK patrol (-2cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) No slot [100] vindicare HQ [85] castellan crowe (85), inner fire Troops [85] 5 strikes (85), halberds, purge soul [85] 5 strikes (85), halberds, purge soul [85] 5 strikes (85), halberds, purge soul ==== total points: 2000 total units: 20 starting cp: 12 -3 (battalion) +3 (warlord refund) -2 (patrol) -2 (patrol) -4 (strats) = 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 I suspect my Orks would have a HARD time fending this off. A hard time indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted July 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, Lyraeus said: I suspect my Orks would have a HARD time fending this off. A hard time indeed The punisher and ample storm bolters are the obvious answers to horde lists, but Crowe is the sleeper pick. He's a new budget choice for me because of 9th's sweeping point increases, but he excels against both hordes and tough characters: with a d6 smite and inner fire, he does an average of 5-6 mortal wounds for 1cp (to extend his powers' range by 6" for the phase), and in combat he can get up to 24 attacks (6 + extras for each successful wound roll + auto fight again on death). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, Dusldorf said: The punisher and ample storm bolters are the obvious answers to horde lists, but Crowe is the sleeper pick. He's a new budget choice for me because of 9th's sweeping point increases, but he excels against both hordes and tough characters: with a d6 smite and inner fire, he does an average of 5-6 mortal wounds for 1cp (to extend his powers' range by 6" for the phase), and in combat he can get up to 24 attacks (6 + extras for each successful wound roll + auto fight again on death). I posted my list. Its not all hordes though there 127 models over all. Far less than when I fielded near 200 for certain. Still much of that would need to be tempered by the missions since Killing is not always the mission and Line of Sight is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted July 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Lyraeus said: I posted my list. Its not all hordes though there 127 models over all. Far less than when I fielded near 200 for certain. Still much of that would need to be tempered by the missions since Killing is not always the mission and Line of Sight is what it is. (Wasn't sure where to reply, in your thread or mine :P) The lower model count is a big deal for sure, but then again with only 5 turns you don't need to last quite as long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 Uhhhh lasting any length of time is the issue though. I have to be able to hide my units well enough or face some SERIOUS pain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted July 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Lyraeus said: Uhhhh lasting any length of time is the issue though. I have to be able to hide my units well enough or face some SERIOUS pain Yeah, sorry, I don't mean to make light of what's obviously a [big bad swear word]ty situation for horde players. Just pointing out that game duration is one small ray of sunshine in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 You are fine. It is what it is and means I have to be far more cagey then I already am...and I am a cagey player as it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 Ya’ll can both field units with higher numbers of bodies than my entire army. Okay, sure, my rank and file basic trooper has stats that rival (or exceed) some of your named special characters... But, still. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 33 minutes ago, Ish said: Ya’ll can both field units with higher numbers of bodies than my entire army. Okay, sure, my rank and file basic trooper has stats that rival (or exceed) some of your named special characters... But, still. You are playing Marines. I mean you Lieutenants are as good as my Warbosses in most cases. I would give up units in my army for a storm shield equivalent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 Actually, I decided to switch to Custodes because I wanted something easier to transport... and we don’t have Lieutenants. Cue the sad music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 Oh you mean instead of painting yellow you wanted to paint gold. Still, your entire army is better than mine more often than naught. I mean, a base troop choice with Shields... I WISH! I am kind of annoyed at GW. Orks have not really changed in how many years? Sine they started releasing the Flyers and Nauts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 Orks are kind of like Guard... GW got it right the first time. They desperately need to update the model line and when new unit types (Aircraft, Giant Stompy Robots, Primarch-Tier Heroes) were added to the game, they needed to add them... But the heart and soul of the Space Orks has always been mobs of Boyz. Lackluster shots, lackluster armor, lackluster morale, above average but not spectacular toughness, and above average but not mêlée, all in such quality that their being moved across the table with a snow shovel seems like a reasonable way to speed up gameplay. Honestly, despite all the attention Space Marines get, I maintain that it’s the Orks (and Orcs!) that are the real icons of GW’s games. Everybody loves Orks. Everyone loves playing against Orks. Everyone loves an Orc player. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgrok Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 Isn't green the color of love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, Mulgrok said: Isn't green the color of love? And blue the Color of Luck. Hence why Deffskulls are the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Ish said: Honestly, despite all the attention Space Marines get, I maintain that it’s the Orks (and Orcs!) that are the real icons of GW’s games. Everybody loves Orks. Everyone loves playing against Orks. Everyone loves an Orc player. QFT ORKS ORKS ORKS ORKS 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 43 minutes ago, Mulgrok said: Isn't green the color of love? 22 minutes ago, Lyraeus said: And blue the Color of Luck. Hence why Deffskulls are the best. An’ neon pink is da Color uv Stealth. Youse gits ever seen a neon pink Ork? Exactly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Ish said: An’ neon pink is da Color uv Stealth. Youse gits ever seen a neon pink Ork? Exactly. I mean... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 When ones litte girl wants to play 40k with her daddy but she wants to WAAAAAGH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Oi, dem gitz don’t count. Dey ain’t doin’ it propa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Played my first game of 9th ed yesterday over TTS using the above list; we played No Man's Land (Eternal War Strike Force Mission 4) and my opponent was running Armageddon guard (Emperor's Fist Vigilus battalion) with 50 guardsmen, 4 chimeras, 2 Tank Commanders, a Vulture with twin punishers, a Valkyrie with rocket pods, 2 Hellhounds, 2 Basilisks, 3 Bullgryns, and a Company Commander (maybe a couple odd things I'm forgetting but that's most of it). Some general lessons learned/confirmed: I was a little afraid that 9th's primary objectives would feel lopsided and give players a huge advantage depending on their ability to alpha strike or stick on objectives. But in 9th it seems like both players are on a largely equal playing field in terms of scoring mechanics: both have to survive on objectives for an entire enemy turn before they can score points. This feels really good; it forces you to be aggressive, leads to more tense situations/rolls, and lots more trading of objectives throughout the game. You really can't play a traditional gunline and expect to win. Because staying power is at a premium, transports filled with obsec troops are a huge pain. My opponent got first turn and parked every Chimera and Hellhound in the center of the board; if I managed to kill a transport, the obsec bodies simply spilled onto the objective, making it even harder for me to contest. (Tabletop Titans have been showing off and explaining the strength of this strategy for weeks but experiencing it first hand is a trip.) You need the familiar combination of tank- and troop-killing power PLUS your own obsec units to steal objectives back from your opponent. It's a pretty big shift in incentives for list construction, movement, and target priority. Not all secondaries are created equal. I know this is pretty obvious to anyone who's read the secondary objectives, but it's worth saying because the design behind 9th's secondaries is very different from that of past ITC/Nova/GW secondaries, which seemed like they were designed to put a wide variety of lists on a level playing field. 9th's secondaries are intentionally lopsided (well, at least the ones in the core book -- we'll see what the GT missions look like soon). For example, slay the warlord gives you 6 points if you succeed and that's it...you don't even have the opportunity to get 15 points by killing other characters. In yesterday's game I picked Bring It Down, Thin Their Ranks, and Secure No Man's Land (a unique one attached to the mission), while my opponent picked Abhor the Witch, Engage on All Fronts, and Secure No Man's Land. Mission-specific secondaries like Secure No Man's Land create really interesting choices. Secondaries are chosen in secret before deployment, and if either player chooses not to pick Secure No Man's land, for example, which gives you points at the end of your player turn equal to the current game turn, then they're forgoing any reward for displacing the enemy with their own units. That is, if I had a pure shooting list and wanted to prevent my opponent from scoring this secondary then I could accomplish that by shooting him off the center objective each turn, but I actually have close combat threats that I want to use in the midboard as well; if I don't pick this secondary then I'm forgoing the points I would have accumulated from their presence after killing/outnumbering my opponent. Overall it's an interesting dilemma that also depends on lists/terrain, but I think most balanced lists will get more benefit from choosing this secondary (and ones like it) than from passing on it. Some takeaways about my list: Crowe can't actually use the 1cp strat to extend the range of his psychic powers since he doesn't have the Rites of Banishment ability. Oh well, back to the drawing board. Despite the fact that I pulled out the win on turn 5, I feel like my list didn't have enough close combat punch. I struggled too long to kill the transports that swarmed the middle of the board. This would also be a problem against Custodes, Centurion-heavy lists, Lord of Skull lists, etc. Strike squads are cool, and the purge soul + inquisitor combo worked well, but they die to a stiff breeze. These takeaways in mind, I've swapped Crowe and two Strike squads for a Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight. This puts me up to six highly durable assets, two of which (it and the Triumph) have big melee potential; whereas the Triumph excels in melee against hordes, this guy will be better at assaulting vehicles and the like. Here's the updated list: 2k imperial soup [682] AM battalion (-2cp) Detachment battalion (-3cp) warlord (+3cp) Strats vigilus: emperor's fist (-1cp) tank ace (-1cp) No slot doctrine: gunnery experts, jury-rigged repairs [100] culexus HQ [190] tank commander (155), heavy bolter (15), battlecannon (20), tank ace: master mechanic, relic: hammer of sunderance (free) [205] tank commander (155), heavy bolter (15), punisher (35), tank ace: master mechanic [37] company commander (35), bolt pistol (2), chainsword, warlord Troops [50] 10 guardsmen [50] 10 guardsmen [50] 10 guardsmen ==== [882] AS patrol (-4cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) Strats open the reliquaries (-1cp) arbiter of the emperor's will (-1cp) No slot conviction: valorous heart [65] ordo hereticus inquisitor (60), inferno pistol (5), chainsword (free), psyker, terrify, relic: blackshroud, WT: formidable resolve HQ [60] canoness (50), blessed blade (10), bolt pistol, relic: wrath of the emperor [195] triumph of st katherine (195) Troops [55] 5 sisters (55), chainsword Elites [45] imagifier (45), tale of the stoic Fast Attack [72] 5 dominions (60), 4 stormbolters (12) Heavy support [195] exorcist (150), exorcist missile launcher (30), heavy bolter (15) [195] exorcist (150), exorcist missile launcher (30), heavy bolter (15) ==== [435] GK patrol (-2cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) No slot [100] vindicare HQ [250] grand master nemesis dreadknight (180), gatline psilencer (20), heavy psycannon (25), greathammer (15), teleporter (10), sanctuary Troops [85] 5 strikes (85), halberds, purge soul ==== total points: 1999 total units: 18 starting cp: 12 -3 (battalion) +3 (warlord refund) -2 (patrol) -2 (patrol) -4 (strats) = 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 How much is a Chimera costing these days? Maybe dropping one (or both) of the Assassins to mechanize one (or two) of your Imperial Guard Infantry Squads would be a useful boost? The Dreadknight and Strike Squad could “sweep” an Objective, then the Chimera squad could park on it to hold it. With two Exorcists, two Russes, and the Dreadknight also on the battlefield, enemy anti-vehicle shooting might not have shots to spare to take out the Chimera... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Can you take 2 assassins these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, Lyraeus said: Can you take 2 assassins these days? Yup; If your army is Battle Forged, you can include one Agent of the Imperium keyword unit in each Inperium (excluding Fallen) Patrol, Battalion, or Brigade Detachment in your army without those units taking up slots in those Detachments. He has one Assassin in the Astra Militarum Imperial Guard’s Battalion and one in the Grey Knights’ Patrol. On the other hand, having two Officio Assassinorum units in the army does lock him out of using the Shadow Assignment stratagem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 59 minutes ago, Ish said: How much is a Chimera costing these days? Maybe dropping one (or both) of the Assassins to mechanize one (or two) of your Imperial Guard Infantry Squads would be a useful boost? The Dreadknight and Strike Squad could “sweep” an Objective, then the Chimera squad could park on it to hold it. With two Exorcists, two Russes, and the Dreadknight also on the battlefield, enemy anti-vehicle shooting might not have shots to spare to take out the Chimera... Chimera is 85 w/ multilaser and heavy bolter now. Immolator is 125 w/ the flamers. I'm trying to find a way to run an Immolator, but it's tough. I want the guard bodies for 1st/2nd turn move blocking or objective stealing, but they also die so quickly that it feels like a trap. I'll keep noodling on it... Quote On the other hand, having two Officio Assassinorum units in the army does lock him out of using the Shadow Assignment stratagem... Yep, and this is fine with me -- Vindicare and Culexus are far and away the better assassins in this edition IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.