Inquisitor66 Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 You don't see value in one of other 2 being able to contest a backfield objective by murderafieing something on charge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 But if you only had one, you’d free up the points for other stuff, and if you found yourself in a matchup where a more specialized Assassin would be useful you could swap him out... Obviously, it’s your army, do what you want. I’m just throwing out ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 38 minutes ago, Inquisitor66 said: You don't see value in one of other 2 being able to contest a backfield objective by murderafieing something on charge? The GMNDK can fill that role well enough I think, but if it becomes an issue I'll revisit things. Quote But if you only had one, you’d free up the points for other stuff, and if you found yourself in a matchup where a more specialized Assassin would be useful you could swap him out... Obviously, it’s your army, do what you want. I’m just throwing out ideas. Really appreciate the ideas! That's a big part of why I like posting here, to get feedback/criticism. The issue here is that since I'm running soup and start with only 4cp, I'd be dropping to 2cp to do that. I'd really like to stay at 4 if I can, but like I mentioned to Inquisitor66, if this aspect of my build ends up being a liability I'll definitely revisit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Hmmm i need to do more games on TTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted July 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 Today I'm trying out a variation that solves a few of the problems we were discussing. My previous list suffered from some glaring issues: weakness to haywire spam (since every asset except the triumph was a vehicle), vulnerable (read: transport-less) troops, and character taxes; the latter has always been an issue with soup but matters more now because of the way cp work in 9th. I've replaced the GK patrol with a supreme command featuring Guilliman. He gives me bonus cp, removes the need for separate re-roll auras like the Canoness (he even gives re-rolls to the assassins!), and makes my entire army more mobile. The sisters detachment is much leaner without the Canoness, allowing me to afford an Immolator for my precious obsec unit. I've also replaced the Astra Militarum patrol with a patrol of Black Templars. The assault centurions are wicked tough: with the litany of divine protection and the apothecary's relic aura, they'll be rocking a 2+/5++/5+++ base, and once per game I can increase the invul to a 4++ using the Aurilian Shroud; plus, I can heal them twice per turn with the chief apothecary. The Black Templars' mobility stratagems from Faith & Fury are even better in 9th edition since people are swarming the midboard (i.e., I don't have as far to travel), and allow me to advance and charge or even consolidate into combat (i.e., ignoring overwatch!) for 1cp each. I would have liked to include one of the new Judiciars to make an enemy unit fight last, but the Culexus can fill that role: for 2cp, every enemy unit within 3" will fight last and lose any fight first abilities. Finally, the scouts are an extremely useful tax since on turn 1 they can move block, allow me to use a 4+ deny strat by being within range of key psykers, or contribute to key secondaries like Raise the Banners High or Engage On All Fronts. I have quite a bit less long-range shooting than before, and fewer obsec units, but I think this list is better suited to 9th's missions and smaller board size: 2k imperial soup ==== [940] AS patrol (-3cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) Strats heroine in the making (-1cp) No slot conviction: valorous heart [100] culexus (100) HQ [195] triumph of st katherine (195) Troops [85] 5 sisters (55), 2 meltaguns (20), simulacrum imperialis (5), cherub (5), chainsword Elites [45] imagifier (45), WT: beacon of faith, tale of the stoic Heavy support [195] exorcist (150), exorcist missile launcher (30), heavy bolter (15) [195] exorcist (150), exorcist missile launcher (30), heavy bolter (15) Transports [125] immolator (80), immolation flamer (30), heavy bolter (15) ==== [680] SM patrol (-7cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) chapter: black templars Strats master of sanctity (-1cp) chief apothecary (-1cp) 2x hero of the chapter (-2cp) 1x relics of the chapter (-1cp) No slot [100] vindicare (100) HQ [105] chaplain with jump pack (105), master of sanctity, WT: wise orator, relic: aurilian shroud, litanies of the devout: divine protection, fervent acclamation Troops [70] 5 scouts (70), combat blades Elites [60] primaris apothecary (60), chief apothecary, WT: selfless healer, relic: healer's aegis [345] 6 assault centurions (270), 12 flamers (60), 1 hurricane bolter (15, on sergeant), 5 assault launchers (free) ==== [380] SM supreme command (+5cp) Detachment supreme command refund (+2) chapter: ultramarines [380] rowboat gorillaman (380), warlord (+3cp), WT: nobility made manifest ==== total points: 2000 total units: 13 starting cp: 12 -2 (patrol) +2 (warlord refund) -2 (patrol) -6 (strats) +3 (gorillaman) = 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 Oh soup...How I wish Any of my factions could do that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted July 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 I've been playing a lot of TTS and iterating on my list. Some of the biggest changes have involved transitioning away from Sisters, since I don't need two different 4+ deny stratagems, and replacing them and Guilliman with Guard and a Knight, respectively. I've also gravitated toward a few scouting units, because in 9th starting the game already in the middle of the board is extremely valuable. While Ultramarines have access to a redeploy strat, my Templars have to rely on sheer resilience in the form of the Aurilian Shroud relic: once per battle round (almost always the first) I get a 4++ on all units within 3" of the bearer until the end of the battle round. This gives my Invictors the resilience they need to survive the heat that they draw away from the knight. Right now I'm 4-1 with an earlier variation on this list (same factions: Guard, Templars, and a knight). This latest variation features the addition of a grav devastator squad, which I added after my recent loss to Death Guard -- one of the best factions in 9th ed. 2k imperial soup [943] SM patrol (-0cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) warlord refund (+2cp) No slot chapter: black templars [100] culexus HQ [100] captain in phobos armor (93), master-crafted instigator bolt carbine (5), camo cloak (2), warlord, WT: frontline commander, relic: aurilian shroud Troops [80] 5 scouts (70), boltguns, combi-melta (10), chainsword Elites [165] invictor (135), twin ironhail autocannon, 2 ironhail heavy stubbers (10), heavy bolter (15), fragstorm grenade launcher (5) [165] invictor (135), twin ironhail autocannon, 2 ironhail heavy stubbers (10), heavy bolter (15), fragstorm grenade launcher (5) Heavy [130] thunderfire cannon (85), techmarine gunner (45) [135] 5 devastators (75), 4 grav cannons (40), cherub (5), combi-melta (10), power axe (5) Transport [68] drop pod (65), storm bolter (3) ==== [490] IK superheavy auxiliary (-5cp) Detachment superheavy auxiliary (-3cp) Strats heirlooms of the household (-1cp) exalted court (-1cp) No slot house: mechanicus freeblade LoW [490] knight crusader (395), thermal cannon (75), ironstorm missile pod (15), heavy stubber (5), heavy flamer (0), WT: ion bulwark, relic: mark of the omnissiah freeblade quality: legendary hero freeblade burdens: exiled in shame, impetuous nature ==== [567] AM patrol (-3cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) Strats tank ace (-1cp) No slot custom regiment: gunnery experts, jury-rigged repairs [100] vindicare HQ [185] tank commander (155), executioner (15), heavy bolter (15) Troops [52] 10 guardsmen (50), sniper rifle (2), chainsword Heavy [145] manticore (130), heavy flamer (15), tank ace: full payload Transport [85] chimera (65), multilaser (5), heavy flamer (15) ==== total points: 2000 total units: 14 starting cp: 12 -2 (patrol) +2 (warlord refund) -2 (patrol) -3 (superheavy auxiliary) -3 (strats) = 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 B-b-but...! Everyone on the internets said “soup is dead,” “knights are trash,” and “gulliman has been nerfed.” Where do you get off with this nonsense of basing your opinions on actual experience!? Thats not the proper way to play toy soldiers, man! 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroStride Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 I've been looking at it like this: Would I pay 2/3 CP to play a stratagem that gave me the buffs I'd get from a different sub-faction/factio,n plus the buffs I get from the additional HQ slots for the entire game? The answer is frequently: Oh [big bad swear word] yes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, ZeroStride said: I've been looking at it like this: Would I pay 2/3 CP to play a stratagem that gave me the buffs I'd get from a different sub-faction/factio,n plus the buffs I get from the additional HQ slots for the entire game? The answer is frequently: Oh [big bad swear word] yes. Yea its quite reasonable. People are just focused on maxing out CP. Sadly Orks dont get the option to soup unless we want different Kulture traits and I just dont see the need. Especially since I can no longer get 21 CP starting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 Orks should be allowed to soup with Elucidian Starstriders if the Ork Detachment consists entirely of Freebootaz or Bad Moonz. Likewise, Orks should be allowed to soup with Imperial Guard, but only if the Ork Detachment consists entirely of Freebootaz or Blood Axes. Likewise, Ork Detachments consisting solely of Freebootaz should be allowed to soup with Chaos Space Marines, if said spikey boyz were all aligned to Khorne. Both of these alliances are canonical. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted July 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2020 Some more test games are proving that things like the knight or GMNDKs push me too far into an elite style of army, and I just need more bodies to compete against obsec spam. My latest list features a couple of mechanized guard units and Karamazov, whose leadership auras synergize really well with both guard (to prevent failed morale tests) and grey knights (to maximize damage via Purge Soul): he gives Ld11 to every imperial unit within 12", and gives -1 Ld to enemy infantry within 12". Crowe is also a nice cheap body for generating command points and/or completing psyker-related secondary objectives. Finally, I've added a Techmarine Master of the Forge to my Black Templars detachment so that my Invictors (MVPs in quite a few games) can hit better and stick around longer. 2k imperial soup [978] SM patrol (-1cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) warlord refund (+2cp) Strats master of the forge (-1cp) No slot chapter: black templars [100] culexus HQ [100] captain in phobos armor (93), master-crafted instigator bolt carbine (5), camo cloak (2), relic: aurilian shroud [40] techmarine (40), chainsword, warlord, master of the forge, WT: master the machine Troops [70] 5 scouts (70), bolters Elites [165] invictor (135), twin ironhail autocannon, 2 ironhail heavy stubbers (10), heavy bolter (15), fragstorm grenade launcher (5) [165] invictor (135), twin ironhail autocannon, 2 ironhail heavy stubbers (10), heavy bolter (15), fragstorm grenade launcher (5) Heavy [140] thunderfire cannon (85), techmarine gunner (45), plasma cutter (5), flamer (5) [130] 5 devastators (75), 4 grav cannons (40), cherub (5), combi-melta (10), chainsword Transport [68] drop pod (65), storm bolter (3) ==== [310] GK battalion (-3cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) Strats arbiter of the emperor's will (-1cp) No slot [125] inquisitor karamazov, WT: formidable resolve HQ [85] castellan crowe (85), empyrean domination Troops [100] 5 strikes (85), stormbolters (15), staves, purge soul ==== [712] AM patrol (-3cp) Detachment patrol (-2cp) Strats tank ace (-1cp) No slot custom regiment: gunnery experts, jury-rigged repairs [100] vindicare (100) HQ [190] tank commander (155), executioner (15), lascannon (20) Troops [50] 10 guardsmen (50), chainsword [52] 10 guardsmen (50), sniper rifle (2), chainsword Heavy [145] manticore (130), heavy flamer (15), tank ace: full payload Transports [85] chimera (65), heavy flamer (15), multilaser (5) [90] taurox (60), 2 autocannons (30) ==== total points: 2000 total units: 19 starting cp: 12 -2 (patrol) +2 (warlord refund) -2 (patrol) -2 (patrol) -3 (strats) = 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted September 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 I recently finished playing in a TTS tournament with a bunch of Art of War subscribers and went 5-1 (none of the 44 participants went 6-0), finishing in 3rd place with the below list. My one loss was to Sterling Arnet's Harlequin & Drukhari combo. My matchups, in order, were: Custodes, Nids, Aeldari (Harlequins & Drukhari), White Scars, White Scars, and Blood Angels. Was a lot of fun and I'm now thinking about ways to keep the same style of list but splash a patrol of Dark Angels, for access to the Watched warlord trait (once per game auto-deny from anywhere on the board), the Reliquary of the Repentant relic (-1 to the invul saves of enemy units within 3"), and a Judiciar. +++ 9e 2k AM AS (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) +++ ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [71 PL, -2CP, 1,270pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment CP Regimental Doctrine: Gunnery Experts, Spotter Details + Stratagems + Tank Ace [-1CP] + Agents of the Imperium + Inquisitor [4 PL, -1CP, 60pts]: 2) Psychic Fortitude, Blackshroud, Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Malleus - Power Through Knowledge, Malleus - Psychic Mastery, Ordo Malleus, Psyker, Stratagem: Inquisitorial Mandate + HQ + Tank Commander [12 PL, 195pts]: Lascannon, Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon Tank Commander [12 PL, 210pts]: Lascannon, Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon Tank Commander [12 PL, 210pts]: Lascannon, Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon + Troops + Conscripts [5 PL, 150pts] . 30x Conscript: 30x Lasgun Infantry Squad [3 PL, 50pts] . 9x Guardsman: 9x Lasgun . Sergeant: Laspistol Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 45pts] . 4x Scion: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Hot-shot Lasgun . Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol + Elites + Astropath [2 PL, 25pts]: Psychic Barrier, Telepathica Stave Platoon Commander [2 PL, 25pts]: Laspistol, Relic: Kurov's Aquila, Warlord + Heavy Support + Manticore [8 PL, 150pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Flamer, Hunter-Killer Missile Manticore [8 PL, 150pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Flamer, Hunter-Killer Missile ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [37 PL, 7CP, 729pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment CP [-3CP] Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose + Stratagems + Open the Reliquaries [-1CP]: Additional Relics of the Ecclesiarchy + No Force Org Slot + Repentia Superior [2 PL, 40pts] + HQ + Canoness [3 PL, -1CP, 60pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Heroine in the Making, Null Rod, Relic: Beneficence, Warlord Trait: 2. Righteous Rage + Elites + Preacher [2 PL, 35pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol Sisters Repentia [6 PL, 120pts] . 8x Sisters Repentia: 8x Penitent Eviscerator Sisters Repentia [6 PL, 120pts] . 8x Sisters Repentia: 8x Penitent Eviscerator Sisters Repentia [6 PL, 120pts] . 8x Sisters Repentia: 8x Penitent Eviscerator + Dedicated Transport + Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 78pts]: Storm bolter Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 78pts]: Storm bolter Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 78pts]: Storm bolter ++ Total: [108 PL, 5CP, 1,999pts] ++ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 It’s really obnoxious that you keep doing well with your “Imperial Soup” army that uses a bunch of basic transports, a pair of squishy psyker, and single-wound infantry. Didn’t you pay any attention to the experts on the Internet who told you those things were all worthless now? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted September 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 56 minutes ago, Ish said: It’s really obnoxious that you keep doing well with your “Imperial Soup” army that uses a bunch of basic transports, a pair of squishy psyker, and single-wound infantry. Didn’t you pay any attention to the experts on the Internet who told you those things were all worthless now? Repentia are pretty widely considered the best unit in the sisters codex, and full-payload manticores do a lot of work. One the other hand, the conscript + psychic barrier (+1 save) + power through knowledge (5++) + mental fortitude (ignore morale) combo is quite fringe and I'm proud to see it work consistently. The rest of the list is relatively straightforward. I will say one of the biggest mistakes I see people making is taking too few "do nothing" units that can score primary or secondary points. The scions and infantry squad fall into this category, and there's a lot of mission play that comes from the rhinos (move blocking, tagging objectives, charging first to absorb overwatch, etc.). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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