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Competitive-ish list feedback


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Came up with a list that seems fun and avoids having some of the feels bad marine units(eradicators, apothecary), while still being strong.  It's supposed to be strong, but not devastating. I'd appreciate feedback to make it...

 

1. More fun to fight against in a friendly game

 

2. More feeback on making it more competitive in a more cutthroat environment. 

 

I'd like to keep the central theme of infantry marines supporting guard vehicles.  List in next post.

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[b]++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines) [57 PL, 9CP, 1,055pts] ++[/b]

[b]+ Configuration +[/b]

[b]**Chapter Selection**:[/b] Bolter Fusillades, Ultramarines Successor, Whirlwind of Rage

[b]Battle Size [12CP]:[/b] 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

[b]Detachment CP[/b]

[b]+ Stratagems +[/b]

[b]Honoured by Macragge [-1CP][/b]

[b]Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]:[/b] Number of Extra Relics

[b]+ HQ +[/b]

[b]Lieutenants [9 PL, 165pts][/b]
. Lieutenant in Reiver Armour: Soldier's Blade
. [b]Primaris Lieutenant[/b]
. . Neo-volkite pistol, Master-crafter power sword and Storm Shield: Neo-volkite pistol

[b]Primaris Chaplain [6 PL, -1CP, 110pts]:[/b] 2. Catechism of Fire, 5. Recitation of Focus, Chapter Command:  Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, Nobility Made Manifest, Stratagem: Exemplar of the Chapter, The Vox Espiritum, Warlord, Wise Orator

[b]+ Troops +[/b]

[b]Assault Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 190pts][/b]
. 9x Assault Intercessor: 9x Astartes Chainsword, 9x Frag & Krak grenades, 9x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

[b]Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 200pts]:[/b] Bolt rifle
. 9x Intercessor: 9x Bolt pistol, 9x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword

[b]+ Elites +[/b]

[b]Bladeguard Veteran Squad [5 PL, 105pts][/b]
. 2x Bladeguard Veteran: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 2x Master-crafted Power Sword, 2x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sgt: Heavy Bolt Pistol

[b]Judiciar [5 PL, 85pts][/b]

[b]+ Fast Attack +[/b]

[b]Inceptor Squad [12 PL, 200pts]:[/b] Assault bolter x2, 4x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

[b]++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [53 PL, -3CP, 940pts] ++[/b]

[b]+ Configuration +[/b]

[b]Detachment CP [-3CP][/b]

[b]Regimental Doctrine:[/b] Regiment: Cadian

[b]+ HQ +[/b]

[b]Tank Commander [12 PL, 220pts]:[/b] Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon

[b]+ Troops +[/b]

[b]Infantry Squad [3 PL, 50pts][/b]
. 9x Guardsman: 9x Lasgun
. Sergeant: Laspistol

[b]Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 45pts][/b]
. 4x Scion: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

[b]+ Elites +[/b]

[b]Astropath [2 PL, 25pts]:[/b] Telepathica Stave

[b]+ Heavy Support +[/b]

[b]Leman Russ Battle Tanks [11 PL, 200pts][/b]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolters, Lascannon

[b]Leman Russ Battle Tanks [11 PL, 200pts][/b]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolters, Lascannon

[b]Leman Russ Battle Tanks [11 PL, 200pts][/b]
. Leman Russ Demolisher: Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon

[b]++ Total: [110 PL, 6CP, 1,995pts] ++[/b]

Created with [url=https://battlescribe.net]BattleScribe[/url]

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I like the theme a lot! Seems unique and fun.

Some minor nitpicks:

While patrol detachments only require two troop choices, they allow up to three. So, why not divide the one of the 10x intercessor squads into two 5x squads, rather than (I assume) using the Combat squads ability? That will give you an extra sergeant, with an extra attack and an extra astartes chainsword for the non-assault intercessors (assuming you go that route rather than split up the assault intercessors), for the same number of points. Since you went with the Whirlwind tactic, I assume you want to get them into close combat, so upping their ability by an extra attack seems like something that's both thematic and optimal. Plus, sergeants seem like more fun to paint... 🙂

It might make sense to mechanize the marines with some transports. Thematically, they need a way to keep up with the tanks. Tactically, if they're gonna be your objective grabbers then you want to get them up the board quickly. The same goes for the Bladeguard, unless I'm missing something and you intend them to serve as a counter charge unit in the rear (though that seems like an expensive option). 

A bare bones impulsor is 110. Getting rid of the Guard squads would leave you with 100 points to spend (50+45+the 5 points you already have to spare). I don't think they add much, since you'll already have at least 4 MSU squads-worth of coverage from the marines and, unless I missed an errata, Spearhead detachments don't require any troops. You could drop the astropath--optional, depending on taste and whether you're including him for psychic secondaries, though I'd note his survivability is pretty limited. That would leave you with 125.

What role do the Lieutenants serve? Both are kitted for close combat but, again,  without transports, it's hard for them to get up the board. Do you want one to provide CC support for your intercessors? Unless they have a clearer role, I would get rid of one of them. The Reiver costs 75 and the Primaris with neo-volkite costs 90. With the above cuts, removing the Primaris Lieutenant would leave you with 215.

If you can find another 5 points somewhere (can one of the tank-based lascannons be downgraded to something cheaper?), that would leave space for 2 Impulsors. You could divide one 5x Assault Intercessors in one, the 3x Bladeguards in the other, and place the Chaplain, remaining Lieutenant, and Judiciar with them (and/or put 1 of the 3 in with the Assault Intercessors).

With that, you now have some highly mobile infantry base that can keep up with, and support, the tanks--providing you with even more opportunities to say "tank goes brrrr" while moving your dudes up the table.

 

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Thanks! I dont have any impulsors and they seem to be hard to get, but I did take some of the your other advice. Here is the new list

 

I realized I could take a battalion since I had 1 already.  I would take flame aggressors over boltstorm, but i don't own any.

 

The plan is to blow stuff off side objectives with tanks and inceptors while the katamari ball of marines takes the center and out shoots melee forces while out punching shooting forces(the whole ball can heroic intervene, and ultra marines can pay 2cp for 3 units to overwatch)

 

The tank commanders main gun is in flux based on my current feeling, I think the plasma version is probably most flexible.


++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [45 PL, -4CP, 840pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [-3CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

+ Stratagems +

Tank Ace [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Tank Commander [12 PL, 240pts]: Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Stat Damage (Leman Russ Commander), Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon, Weapon Expert

+ Heavy Support +

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [11 PL, 200pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Stat Damage (Leman Russ)

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [11 PL, 200pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Stat Damage (Leman Russ)

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [11 PL, 200pts]
. Leman Russ Demolisher: Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Stat Damage (Leman Russ), Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines) [64 PL, 11CP, 1,150pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selection**: Bolter Fusillades, Ultramarines Successor, Whirlwind of Rage

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

Detachment CP

Show Primaris Only

+ HQ +

Lieutenants [5 PL, 90pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Frag & Krak grenades
. . Neo-volkite pistol, Master-crafter power sword and Storm Shield: Master-crafted Power Sword, Neo-volkite pistol, Storm shield

Primaris Chaplain [6 PL, -1CP, 110pts]: Absolver Bolt Pistol, Chapter Command:  Master of Sanctity, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Nobility Made Manifest, Stratagem: Exemplar of the Chapter, The Vox Espiritum, Warlord, Wise Orator

+ Troops +

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [6 PL, 135pts]: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher: 2x Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 140pts]
. 3x Bladeguard Veteran: 3x Frag & Krak grenades, 3x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 3x Master-crafted Power Sword, 3x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sgt: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Master-crafted Power Sword, Storm Shield

Judiciar [5 PL, 85pts]: Absolver Bolt Pistol, Executioner Relic Blade, Frag & Krak grenades

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [12 PL, 200pts]: Assault bolter x2, 4x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

++ Total: [109 PL, 7CP, 1,990pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

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Tabletop Titans goes over this a lot when they explain how they make their lists. 

 

What they do is they balance it against who they are playing. Not always doable when you bring what you plan to play with. 

 

The second list isn't oppressive. Strong for certain but not oppressive. 

 

Marines are in a state of being one of the most consistent and stronger armies out there. One thing to consider is that a casually fun marines list makes non marine players have to bring a much meaner list to be able to hang around. This can be compensated by the non marine player out playing the marine player but its an uphill battle.

 

Still this would be interesting to face and I think you would have issues with mass armor. Sure 4 Russ's can deal with armor but it will take a bit of time.  

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