dragons_lair04 Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 This will be my first time going to OFCC as a player and I would like some feedback on my Vampire Counts lists. I have made two of them, I kind of like the second one more. Please let me know what you think of the lists and any suggestions for changes that would make them better will be appreciated. The first list: Total Roster Cost: 2795 Vampire Lord 1 Vampire Lord + Heavy Armour + Shield 1 Zombie Dragon 1 Sword of Bloodshed 1 Nightshroud 1 Red Fury Necromancer 1 Necromancer + Master of the Dead + Level 2 Upgrade 1 Corpse Cart 1 Dispel Scroll Vampire 1 Vampire (Battle Standard Bearer) + Level 2 Upgrade + Heavy Armour + Shield + Battle Standard Bearer 1 The Banner of the Barrows 1 Supernatural Horror 1 Beguile Necromancer 1 Necromancer + Level 2 Upgrade 1 Staff of Sorcery Zombie Horde (40) 40 Zombies Skeleton Warriors (30) 29 Skeleton Warriors + Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std 1 Skeleton Champion, 15 pts Crypt Ghouls (20) 19 Crypt Ghouls 1 Crypt Ghast Crypt Ghouls (20) 19 Crypt Ghouls 1 Crypt Ghast Hexwraiths (5) 5 Hexwraiths Grave Guard (19) 18 Grave Guard + Great Weapon + Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std 1 Seneschal 1 War Banner Crypt Horrors (4) 4 Crypt Horrors Terrorgheist (1) 1 Terrorgheist The second list: Total Roster Cost: 2796 Vampire Lord 1 Vampire Lord + Level 2 Upgrade + Heavy Armour + Shield 1 Zombie Dragon 1 Sword of Bloodshed 1 Nightshroud 1 Red Fury 1 Fear Incarnate Necromancer 1 Necromancer + Master of the Dead + Level 2 Upgrade 1 Corpse Cart + Balefire 15 1 Dispel Scroll Vampire 1 Vampire (Battle Standard Bearer) + Level 2 Upgrade + Heavy Armour + Shield + Battle Standard Bearer 1 The Banner of the Barrows 1 Supernatural Horror 1 Beguile Zombie Horde (40) 40 Zombies + Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std Skeleton Warriors (30) 29 Skeleton Warriors+ Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std 1 Skeleton Champion Crypt Ghouls (30) 29 Crypt Ghouls 1 Crypt Ghast Dire Wolves (5) 5 Dire Wolves Dire Wolves (5) 5 Dire Wolves Hexwraiths (5) 5 Hexwraiths Grave Guard (19) 18 Grave Guard + Great Weapon + Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std 1 Seneschal 1 War Banner Crypt Horrors (6) 6 Crypt Horrors Terrorgheist (1) 1 Terrorgheist + Infested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 couple general thoughts: 1) your lord/general is very vulnerable without a ward save. 2) the necro on the cart with master of the dead will be slow (only ever move 4") and master of the dead likely won't bet you any extra skellies. 3) your bsb vamp can drop banner of the barrows (the grave guard can take this themselves) this frees up the bsb to take magic items or a different magic banner of that's what you want. 4) your units sizes are really small, our units loose models by the droves. the Zeds could be split into two units (they can grow beyond their starting size easily) 20 ghouls will only be speed bumps (and expenses ones at that). 19 grave guard will die and crumble before they can really be effective. 5) list two does look like a better choice if taken as is. as another vamp player taking a zombie dragon I appaud your choice :) he does get expensive real quick. also keeping your magic to a few lv 2's you will need to be very effective with that phase as vamps is an army that is made potent through our magic. if you can i would look into give the necro on the cart the book of arkhan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach_5 Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 The second list is closer to what I'd consider taking myself, though the zombie-dragon lord + terrorgheist is incredibly potent (I took it a few years back and I know a few opponents did not have a good time facing them). Red Fury might have to go, though your no-ward on the lord may help make that combo more palatable (my lord at the time had a good ward and S7, though no Red Fury). I'd recommend getting at least level3 magic on the lord, and personally I take the wight king BSB in the graveguard; he benefits from Banner of Barrows (which I agree should go on the unit) and is tougher with an extra wound compared to the Vampire BSB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons_lair04 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 I am making some changes to my list please let me know if you think this might make things better or worse. I am trying to make a better list but am wanting to keep the power level to a rating of about 3 for the event (I know ratings are a touchy subject for some but not for me I just want to make a good balanced list). So here are some of the changes: Changed the items on the dragon lord (what qualifies as a "character" for the purpose of the Sword of Anti Heroes), changed out the vampire bsb for a wight lord bsb, changed the banner on the bsb, changed the items on the necromancer on the cart, added more grave guard and changed their banner, added champions to the dire wolves and crypt horrors. I am also thinking of dropping the Hexwraiths and replacing them with a unit of 3 Vargheists with a champ (make a beasty theamed list). I am also thinking of dropping some of the champions out of my units to increase the size of the Graveguard unit to 29. Also what is your opinion on poisoned attacks on the Terrorgheist. Here is the current list, as always opinions and advice is welcome. (some concerns I have are there are only 2 lore of vampires characters in the army and that is risky for crumble, vamp lord might be too easy to kill, I might have too many points tied up in unit champions) Total Roster Cost: 2800 Vampire Lord 1 Vampire Lord + Level 3 Upgrade + Heavy Armour + Shield 1 Zombie Dragon 1 Sword of Anti Heroes 1 Nightshroud 1 Ironcurse Icon 1 Fear Incarnate 1 Red Fury Wight King 1 Wight King (Battle Standard Bearer) + Shield + Battle Standard Bearer 1 Wailing Banner Necromancer 1 Necromancer + Master of the Dead + Level 2 Upgrade 1 Corpse Cart + Balefire 1 Book of Arkhan Zombie Horde 40 40 Zombies + Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std Skeleton Warriors (30) 29 Skeleton Warriors + Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std 1 Skeleton Champion Crypt Ghouls (30) 29 Crypt Ghouls 1 Crypt Ghast Dire Wolves (5) 4 Dire Wolves 1 Doom Wolf Dire Wolves (5) 4 Dire Wolves 1 Doom Wolf Hexwraiths (5) 4 Hexwraiths 1 Hellwraith Grave Guard (24) 23 Grave Guard + Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std 1 Seneschal 1 The Banner of the Barrows Crypt Horrors (6) 5 Crypt Horrors 1 Crypt Haunter Terrorgheist (1) 1 Terrorgheist + Infested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach_5 Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 I still think Red Fury on the vamp might be too much, based on trying to make this list rate a "3". Personally it still looks like a really hard list to me, but then I'm haven't been playing enough to be a great judge of that. More grave guard is better, but 24 is a decent size. In that case I'd generally run them 6-wide 4-deep. If you can get closer to 30 then 7-wide is a good go-to size with reforming into Horde formation has benefits more often with the increased numbers. Personally I've never taken poison on the terrorgeist, seems like wasted points to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 the vamp lord is strong but not brokenly so, especially since he still has no ward save, so while he can dish out a lot of attacks and thus kills he is very vulnerable. I think I've seen so math hammer in which they compared quickblood and red fury, if you are going to be taking one or the other I almost always take quickblood. red fury is nice if you are sure to get the kills, quickblood makes sure you get those kills to begin with. also against any of the elves out there it will reduce the number of hits you're taking in return When you take away their rerolls. I would give your bsb a great weapon. big deal if he goes last this will give him punching power to get through a lot of the good armor saves that other characters will have. I would drop most of the champs (keep one for me lucky). and would either make my champ the horror (high tough and regen means he might live) or the hellwraith (the protection provided by ethereal). the skelly and gg champ could be useful to tie characters up in challenges. with the free points invest in more gg (27 is solid number, so with the wight king you can have four ranks seven wide). or invest in further magic items for the corpse cart necro. both of the TG upgrades are a waste, you don't want him in combat, you want him flyin around screaming and threatening stuff. you may want to look into getting a second unit of zombies. with this list, having a few tarpit options will be important and it is all to easy to avoid a single tarpit unit. since you're going to want to be able to pick your combats with the gg and horrors. varghiest are good for their role, which is war machine hunting and clearing chaff (IMO). hex wraiths are better at taking out knights and stuff with good armor saves, and if need be tying up big monsters. I would consider what role you want filled in your list and go with the unit that does that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons_lair04 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 Thanks for the advice guys, I am fine tuning the list and I believe I am close to a final draft. Here are some of the ideas I have about some things in my army. I really like the idea of the horror or wraith champ being Mr lucky, I was thinking grave guard but the reasons given by Drak make me believe one of the former would be a better choice. As for my lord, I know he is a glass hammer. He will hit hard but can easily be taken out. I have some upgrades on him to help survive the cc fights but he will be a big target for war machines for which he has pretty much no defense against (as well as high str. cc atacks). I really like the idea of Red Fury, I know it makes him tough but I don't think it makes him OP. If the powers that be think otherwise I can replace it with something else as I am not overly attached to anything in the list. I am still a little lost on what is considered "characters" for the Sword of Anti Heroes (do unit champions count as "characters" or is it just Heroes and Lords). The corpse cart is set up to cast DM on itself with the book to help keep up with the rest of the army and to boost my core troops with ASF. This will help with those pesky elves (as well as the ASL from the Shroud on the lord). Just my ideas for the army, as always any feed back and suggestions for the list is appreciated. Ok, made some more minor changes. The changes are: removed the iron curse icon from the lord, dropped the doom wolves, removed the infested upgrade from terrorgheist, increased the size of the grave guard unit to 27. Here is the current incarnation of the list. Total Roster Cost: 2798 Vampire Lord 1 Vampire Lord + Level 3 Upgrade + Heavy Armour + Shield 1 Zombie Dragon 1 Sword of Anti Heroes 1 Nightshroud 1 Red Fury 1 Fear Incarnate Wight King 1 Wight King (Battle Standard Bearer) + Shield + Battle Standard Bearer 1 Wailing Banner Necromancer 1 Necromancer + Master of the Dead + Level 2 Upgrade 1 Corpse Cart + Balefire 1 Book of Arkhan Zombie Horde (40) 40 Zombies + Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std Skeleton Warriors (30) 29 Skeleton Warriors + Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std 1 Skeleton Champion Crypt Ghouls (30) 29 Crypt Ghouls 1 Crypt Ghast Dire Wolves (5) 5 Dire Wolves Dire Wolves (5) 5 Dire Wolves Hexwraiths (5) 4 Hexwraiths 1 Hellwraith Grave Guard (27) 26 Grave Guard + Musician Mus + Standard Bearer Std 1 Seneschal 1 The Banner of the Barrows Crypt Horrors (6) 5 Crypt Horrors 1 Crypt Haunter Terrorgheist 1 Terrorgheist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach_5 Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 I like it. I believe it only counts heroes and lords, not unit champions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons_lair04 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 Yes, I just looked it up in the warhammer FAQ and it specifically says that unit champions are not characters. That is good because it makes the sword not op. I think this is the list I will be taking unless someone looks at it and points out something I didn't see or think of. Thank you both for all the help and advice. I think this will be a fun list to play with and against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 looking good. the only other thing I'd suggest is either: a) drop master of the dead (only one unit of skellies can possibly benefit from this upgrade) and take the opal amulet or the talisman of protection or the dragonbane gem + great weapon for bsb. this gives your backup caster a little added protection. b) drop the Zeds down a little and look to free up enough points to take a second unit of skellies to really get your money out of master of the dead. pure likely to get two turns of ION before your slow moving core are in combat (the only time you're likely to benefit from master of the dead). so make it worth it. honesty I'd go option a. but you may want to try out that upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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