Raak Posted May 24, 2014 Report Share Posted May 24, 2014 Well, this is my first edition change and having just made an initial read of the rules section I have to say I'm really excited. It's all too scattered to make sense as a whole to me now but I think 4-5 games in 7e is going to have poeple happy about the game again. IMHO So - as you read and play the new edition - thoughts? Biggest initial observations of changes have been: Psychic phase added. Cannot attempt to manifest the same power in the same unit Brotherhood of Psykers / Psychic Pilot count as Mastery levels for generating warp charges Area terrain and Focus Fire removed (srsly?) ICs cannot join any sort of MCs or Vehicles All Ally types score. Even Come the Apoc. All Troops get Objective Secured. Even vehicles (so dedicated transports for Troops) You can have as many detachments as you want in a "normal" read: not "unbound" army FMC cannot land and assault the same player turn Jink is a 4+ cover save declared before To Hit rolls are made; Snap Shots only Missions are the same except objectives are placed before table halves decided. Player who deploys first chooses who goes first after deployment D-weapons only ignore invul/cover on a wound / pen of 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted May 24, 2014 Report Share Posted May 24, 2014 The idea of D-weapons doing D3 hull points of damage to a land raider but being stopped by a fern or smoke on a 5up is pretty goddamn hilarious let me tell you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2014 The idea of D-weapons doing D3 hull points of damage to a land raider but being stopped by a fern or smoke on a 5up is pretty goddamn hilarious let me tell you. I thought so as well until I realized it is obviously refering to plasma exploding titanium fern fronds and metal eating acid smoke <thick irony> Also - Reese over @ Frontline noted the following which I found interesting: As of now, there is no limit on Warp Charge. You can quite easily build an army that has 30+ warp charge. We did it last night and made a Daemon summoning spam list and it was ludicrous. The Daemon plyaer had 38 warp charge and by turn 2, had brought in over 1,000pts of new units onto the table and the Space Marine player never got a single power off nor denied a single power as they had 3 Warp Charge in their pool to work with. It was comical. The game took almost 6 hours to play and by the end of it, the Daemon player’s army had gone over 4,000pts. For the record - I dropped Eldar when it was cool and took Daemons before 7e. Just Sayin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 I will be enforcing the you have to have the models rule! It is actually there for a reason... Better pack them all and bring them :P, oh and I have the better table so you come to my house ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 I will be enforcing the you have to have the models rule! It is actually there for a reason... Better pack them all and bring them :P, oh and I have the better table so you come to my house ;) Sure, np! It's like I was expecting this - I have Daemons coming out the ass these days, but define better table ;) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Deamons out the ass? I think that is the next excorcist movie. Or at least the rating of the newer taritino flick. Please keep in mind this post would be more English class correct if I weren't drunk. However [big bad swear word] in one hand.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Sure, np! It's like I was expecting this - I have Daemons coming out the ass these days, but define better table ;) One that is not within 10' of where a butt load of daemons are stored! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Wow that is some crazy stuff. I can easily see a friendly 'cap' in dice being created for this, similar to what you see in Fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 I like the no ICs joining riptides. I knew that one was unintentional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 I'm thinking rather than a hard dice cap, a cap on the "contributing" psykers. Ultimately, I'm a fan of whatever the frontline gaming guys do. They are active collaborate with many TOs across the nation and make their format easily available for use. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 I'm thinking rather than a hard dice cap, a cap on the "contributing" psykers. Ultimately, I'm a fan of whatever the frontline gaming guys do. They are active collaborate with many TOs across the nation and make their format easily available for use. I agree Corey, IMO they also take a fairly easy approach when introducing and explaining their decisions. They also manage to keep their ego's out of the way, which says a lot IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Yep they make well discussed and intelligent decisions and it shows in the community. I like what they do and want to help make it more readily accepted. They organized a tournament circuit and most of the local ones have joined to it so you might as well be familiar with their ways. Until they rule on the psychic stuff, these were my thoughts that one shared with them. What if instead of capping the dice you cap the number of psykers that contribute? This would mean a limit to the dice but armies that bring high level psykers get a few more dice. Also as the high level psykers die the lower level ones get to contribute. Start at a cap of like four. Means four level threes contribute 12 dice plus the random, but spammed level ones would only get 4 extra dice. Is this a possible compromise? Heavily psychic races would keep more dice longer but it would put two level twos on the same footing as four level ones. Scaling might be an issue…but with a base line at around 1750 I think this is workable. - See more at: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2014/05/24/7th-edition-warhammer-40k-review-the-good-the-bad-and-solutions/#comment-275370 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Wait so are we not going to play by the rulebook now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Why start now? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I'm cool playing by the rule book but most people need help with the golden rule... Make sure both people have fun. I could totally just play garage hammer for the rest of my life but if you want to travel and play others havinga consistent message is important. I find that new players need help with what is acceptable in a broader sense otherwise they end up on the internet with a deathstar... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 When the rule book can be broken within a few games, it's a good idea to set up some guidelines. Basically if you say you are playing with 30 psychic dice I am going to just say you won and move on. It will be easier for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 If it is all Tzeentch with no grimior and few Heralds I actually like it... Could be fun comes down to pre game discussion. Which is what some tournament guidelines are. Edit: six full sized horrors a chariot or two a couple heralds and a Lord of change easily tons of dice but that is the only phase with teeth so it would be fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 It's not going to be the best thing for a tourney anyway because you have to have all the models and you'll only make it to turn 3. That FLG game took over 4 hours, didn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 It's not going to be the best thing for a tourney anyway because you have to have all the models and you'll only make it to turn 3. That FLG game took over 4 hours, didn't it?Yeah but if that was your plan you could play two to three turns positioning then BAM hulk out your army. If you split things right you could even keep the daemons battle forged and really score objectives. Thing with a force like that is it takes anything your opponent can do away however the powers and stuff are great for narratives.I love the rules and I'm excited for the front line gaming tournament "data slate" :). 40k in my book is better than ever. Strength D and apoc sized templates in the main rules means people will be more familiar with the mechanic rules and it will allow for smoother apoc games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 That FLG game took over 4 hours, didn't it? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Wait guys...shouldn't we play at least a few games before we thrown in the towel and say the system is impossible. Listen gw is a sack full of incompetent rotty a holes, but I refuse to believe that even they could destroy this game that bad. Fantasy operates by the same system or at least similar systems and everyone pre c's to even a bum on the street muttering that games name. I'll give it a few tries before I start 're-writing the BRB. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Just out of curiosity why does it seem that we are already trying to homebrew 7e into something that is collectively likable at the shop? If that's what you want then why not just agree on a set of rules that everyone likes, ditch all the GW releases, hurt feelings and be done with it? The productivity rise alone from time not spent arguing the contrafactual minutiae of tabletop should be enough to delve significantly further into Dark Matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I'm cool playing by the rule book but most people need help with the golden rule... Make sure both people have fun. I could totally just play garage hammer for the rest of my life but if you want to travel and play others havinga consistent message is important. I find that new players need help with what is acceptable in a broader sense otherwise they end up on the internet with a deathstar... Sure, I agree but so what? They can't play the damn thing and don't progress( I'm living proof- I readily admit that playing Screamerstar, FMC, Wraithwing,Jetseer whatever doesn't make you a good player it just stacks the odds in what is a game of numbers and chance) - eventually the people you speak of will drop out of the hobby or, like me, come to their senses and delve deeper into their codices, Current Rulebook and the spirit of the game. "Waaaah- Deathstar" is a battle cry I hoped would die with 6e. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 One that is not within 10' of where a butt load of daemons are stored! haha! I needed a good laugh, mate! thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 3 Plus Plus has a fairly exhaustive list of the changes from 6e to 7e @: http://www.3plusplus.net/2014/05/first-look-7th-edition/#more-9921 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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