Fix Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Jimminy Crickets people - Has anyone actually walked through or even played a game of 7e yet? Yes. It was very silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Fyi since Loren mentioned the Saturday events...I have stuff going on in June so I won't be running it. Told Nathaniel he said he would figure something out so yeah... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 I don't have much to say, save that after having watched most of a 7th game, and giving the rules a thorough once over, I'm excited about them. They necessitate a conversation about expectations before playing more than any other edition, and the fixes to D weapons and buildings make them more palatable for general inclusion. This is now a game where you can be an epic, worthless douche, or where you can be full of 7 kinds of awesome. The conversation, which was always important, is more essential than ever, but the possibilities of awesome blow my mind. Reeces's post on the status of organized play was great. If anything, this will force 40k players to think and behave more like Fantasy players, which is a good thing. All, of course, in my humble opinion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Hello there, Since we're tossing out opinions and perspectives, here's mine! :) I'll gladly play anyone, any list, any points, any way you want it (/cue Journey music) If you bring the aformentioned 9 flying hive tyrants then expect my fellas to do their very best to serve the Emperor and defend humanity in the best way they can. If that means a messy death, so be it... but I'll toss out an encrypted short-burst coded message to the rest of the Chapter noting the time, place and hive tyrants in order to exact brutal and punishing revenge somewhere down the line. If someone wants to flood the table with Daemons, right on! They'll have fun doing it and I'll have fun doing my best to banish them to the hell from whence they came. If someone wants to... you get the picture. You have fun. I'll have fun. And oh! the tales we'll have to tell! It's not "winning," it's not "losing..." it's creating a wonderful time. And considering it's a fargin' game and no one is actually shooting at me trying to kill me, I reckon that's an awesome day from my perspective! :) I'm so looking forward to playing with you guys, I really am! Everyone's been so cool to chat with! I'll have my lil' notebook with me, taking notes for the after-action reports and noting things for future storylines! Oh and if anyone ever needs to borrow models for their force, just holler... if I can help, be happy to! 'Nids, marines, Tau, Eldar, Orks, Necrons and Chaos thus far. And man do IG look tempting! Stay safe, don 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiccus Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Everything I am hearing about 7th makes me feel more and more like I won't play until 8th at the earliest. It seems like they just took the stuff I didn't like and added to it. Factor in that it seems like assault armies still suck (which is what I love) and I just don't see me playing any 40k this edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Yes. It was very silly. Good Silly or Bad silly? Single FoC or Ubound? Armies? Details!!! I want to know what you think! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Everything I am hearing about 7th makes me feel more and more like I won't play until 8th at the earliest. It seems like they just took the stuff I didn't like and added to it. Factor in that it seems like assault armies still suck (which is what I love) and I just don't see me playing any 40k this edition. Totally valid. Completely understandable. 40k will miss you. Please come back in 8e Joey! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Hello there, Since we're tossing out opinions and perspectives, here's mine! :) I'll gladly play anyone, any list, any points, any way you want it (/cue Journey music) If you bring the aformentioned 9 flying hive tyrants then expect my fellas to do their very best to serve the Emperor and defend humanity in the best way they can. If that means a messy death, so be it... but I'll toss out an encrypted short-burst coded message to the rest of the Chapter noting the time, place and hive tyrants in order to exact brutal and punishing revenge somewhere down the line. If someone wants to flood the table with Daemons, right on! They'll have fun doing it and I'll have fun doing my best to banish them to the hell from whence they came. If someone wants to... you get the picture. You have fun. I'll have fun. And oh! the tales we'll have to tell! It's not "winning," it's not "losing..." it's creating a wonderful time. And considering it's a fargin' game and no one is actually shooting at me trying to kill me, I reckon that's an awesome day from my perspective! :) I'm so looking forward to playing with you guys, I really am! Really liking the 40k positivity, Don! Can't wait to play with you and yours! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TW_Haines Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Well I just got my book and man it looks good. Real good! Fixed so much, assault a squad that has gone to ground and it has no overwatch. Whoot Transports are harder to blow up and dont get removed. No more rhino eats it and, your squad gets stuck on open ground. We get to hide behind our burning box. Whoot If you surrounded said box the squad is killed in the box as they cant be placed on the table. Assault is on baby! I think assault got better in 7ed, you just need to think about how you assault. Exit a rhino and assault next turn. Force them to ground with artillery before assault. All in all balanced out the assault and shooting armys a little. I dont like d weapons (never played with or against, they just scare me). Not that there broken just got me quaken in my boots. Not liking the option of lords of war mixed in with my old army rosters but I will live. Psychic phase is the big game changer. I dont see it brake the game, just a game changer. This one hurt my Templars a bit. Deny the witch is a little to weak, not going to stop a deamon army from over running you, so allies with psykers is a must. Allies got fixed for everyone, looks good with still bringing a xeno mix up, but now there not all hugs and kisses. looking at you Tau/Eldar. No more commie elves in space list holding hands. Gray knights can be allied to any SM force now, and not scare the crap out of them! Awesome fixes in my mind. With some cool options to bring the comp and fluff players together. The cards make it so a comp player is equalized a bit to the garage player, and I dont see ternys using the cards. Also the option for a mass of models army is cool, I dont see it being used to much, unless its for a beer and pretzels game. All in All good job GW TW Haines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Good Silly or Bad silly? Single FoC or Ubound? Armies? Details!!! I want to know what you think! Well, for one thing I was playing so you know it wasn't a normal game. Andy walked up and punched my silo until it nuked itself and then I shot down a plane with a bolt pistol. I shot him with laser beam eyes and he deffrolla'd some heroes of the imperium. Pretty good times. We played with the Maelstrom cards which were fun, but I don't think all of them are really appropriately valued. There's one that gives you D3 points for slaying the warlord on top of the point you already get for slaying the warlord, and gives them to you even if you killed him in an earlier round. There's one that gives you D3+3 points for capturing all of the objectives in a round (totally doable with everything scoring now, and you can imagine a drop pod army doing it turn 1) which sorta adds insult to injury because you're probably getting owned by that point already as is. You have to make up some rules as you go because they completely ditched a lot of stuff in the terrain section. So for example, is the base considered part of the scenery anymore? If you are on the ground floor of a ruin, are you "in" it? There seems to be some wiggle room there for what exactly area terrain is, but the concept of area terrain has been pretty well ruled out. What are the rules for moving up multi-floored buildings? Is it still 3"? What floor of a ruin do barrage templates hit? Flame templates? Can any model go on any floor? Etc. They really got lazy with the building rules. "Hurr durr it's a big transport vehicle" is not a correct answer. Nor is "get Stronghold Assault but ignore the rules on every other page." I think the new Force Org rules are interesting, but I'd like to see more of what they have in mind with the different Detachments. I thought they had some pretty good opportunities when they introduced the Allies matrix in 6th, but they kind of squandered it in my opinion, and this is kind of the same thing. It's all well and good to say you're going to have these options down the road, but it really wouldn't have killed them to put one or two more examples of Detachments and Command Benefits into the rulebook. It would have given us a lot more to play with. Psychic stuff… I need to play more. One psyker per side for our game meant it didn't mean much. I think it's stupid that my commissar will execute my psykers if they turn into demons, but only if they do it accidentally. Really, I think this version runs roughshod on a lot of the fluff and, being a fluff player that sorta bites. I appreciate that there's a lot of opportunity to do all kinds of crazy armies, but they really pushed the demonology thing too far. Oh, and they failed to fix assault, and assault needed to be fixed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Excellent battle report Fix! Running around now but will reply soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Again I disagree brad and Joey. Playing Mike with an assault army I felt way better about assault. Again throw the stats out the window because they never happen, 2d6 - 2 is way more reliable than 3d6 take the lowest. Being as assault armies most units have move through cover, which ignore the -2, and fleet. It's a major help. Yeah not having assault grenades still sucks but really the major problem was failing the charge, not going last. I know demon players still think the fmc's are nerfed, but play a game with them. Remember good warhammer is not based on a single unit. It is how you incorporate the use of many units together. Tactics. Psykers, I can see some armies such as demons and elder having a hay day in some games. They have awesome powers that if they go off are powers you really don't want to happen. And getting powers off got a lot easier and denying a lot harder. However I had a total of 11 warp charges against Mike's 0. And they were effective however not really super game changing. Also keep in mind land raiders got a lot harder to kill. The edition is a lot like prision. It looks really bad from the outside but once you realized you have grown accustomed from taking it from behind so long already...well then it's just another day in paradise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Yeah, but you're only talking about one element of CC, Shae. You get maybe one inch more reliability out of the new model. That doesn't make up for the massive amount of nerfing CC has taken since 5th edition. Ask Kevin if that helps an army that assaults from reserves. My berzerker army is still sidelined from the weakening of Furious Charge. I can finally maybe get Banshees into CC, but I'll probably have to load them up in an allied Raider (after putting them in there the first turn since they can't start in them) and even open topped assault delivery vehicles took a hit with this edition because flamers burn the unit within. It's just a much shootier game now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 I see what your saying but genestealers were honestly a little broken when they could assault out of outflank. That is why they made a name for themselves. Now witches being able to assault from the webway portal well...listen no one supports assault more than I, however witches able to circumvent their one weakness (high armour) is a little broken in my book. Right now the edition does favor shooting however assault from reserves I don't like. I feel the answer is cheaper units or let's say letting 2 squads of witches come out of a portal. It isn't perfect but far better than last edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 That's all I'm getting at. This version didn't fix that stuff. It still needs to be fixed. Genestealers assaulting off the flanks was strong. How much would it have been weakened by just the addition of Overwatch? Or just saying that assaults out of reserve are disorganized? We don't know because they did all the nerfs at once and it hits some armies more than others. One idea I saw was to make Overwatch more like the original. Hold your shoot action to the other player's turn, but you get to fire at full BS. So if you've got a unit on the flank and you know he might assault you from that side, you're on guard. Maybe you'll waste your shoot phase as they roll on somewhere else, but you made that tactical decision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 That's all I'm getting at. This version didn't fix that stuff. It still needs to be fixed. This is what I meant about expectations from the earlier jump from 6th to 7th. I think people expected GW to use the jump to fix stuff, but that was never the reason they changed editions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Why do you suspect they did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 I could be wrong here, but historically speaking, GW always has a jump in sales after an edition change, and I remember my shift into 6th....there were many adjustment purchases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 I get that, but overwatch doesn't do that much damage. Only with heavy twin-linked shooting. The hard part is that we are basing our thoughts on editions prior which worked with some units. But did people not bitch back then too. We can't have it all. I do believe gw is working for a balance. All combat units have to do is have at least 5 models survive. CC units bank on getting in CC. Not because that is where they do damage but because that is how they stop getting shot and keep those shots off the rest of the army. I don't think assault is as easy in regards to dealing with a rule balance. I think we are looking at it on unit vs. Unit basis which isn't true. Yes a squad of 15 genestealers outflank and doesn't assault because of the new rule so that VS your unit yeah you shoot them and kill the squad. However in the long term...that is that many shots not going to the unit that has been on the table that is now in assault range. Take ymgarls. Placed in the right spot they could win you the game. Now if every genestealer list could assault out of reserve idk. That is a world I don't want my kids growing up in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 All I am saying is play with some assault units before you judge. I did, and it isn't bad. It's way better than it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 I could be wrong here, but historically speaking, GW always has a jump in sales after an edition change, and I remember my shift into 6th....there were many adjustment purchases Do you see the need for a lot of purchases to make adjustments over what there was in 6th? Other than the book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 at this point, not at all, except I do think Knights of any race, with be a thing, I think they'll be the new flyer but keep in mind, I haven't played a game of 7th yet :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 I'm switching back to my 5th ed list! I find that if you take a reasoned balanced force the adjustment purchases are far fewer if they exist at all. It is the OMG that is so good stuff that always moves and causes different purchases if you are chasing that perfect list. As the most efficient list inevitably banks on some certain rule that is tweaked for balance. For many editions people complained of assault being to good... I'm with Shae I think it is just about right. Multiple bodies shrug it off but it is a good place to hide if you are decent at it and certain units are weak to it. It is a support tool not an end all be all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 Corey, you can't comment on list adjustments :D. Anyone that plays the same list for 25 years straight has no place commenting about list edition changes to lists. Especially when your leading sentence is: I'm switching back to my 5th ed list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TW_Haines Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 I like assault the way it is, and as a rule over half the boots on the table I bring are assault. I use rhinos as a second line rush, landraiders are my primary assault, full of honour guard, or termys. I have tryed to use crusader squads, but it was a lot of points and just not cost effective. My hq is always a face smasher last one is in termy armour with a powerfist, lightning claw and the gorgons chain. I am also thinking of puting together a biker squad armed with lances or mauls. thats alot of attacks on the charge. It will put a big dent in something even better if I drop a chaplain on a bike in the mix. I think the new rules are ok, balanced lists are the rule for me. I cant run a all guns no guts list it will get crushed. And thats my 2 cents TW Haines 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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