Melee rules question

[Brother Glacius]

So I just want to be clear on the melee rules. When you have a model with multiple attacks, and with multiple melee weapons, you have to choose how many attacks with each weapon correct?

If a weapon has a rule that grants additional attacks, does that apply to each attack given to that weapon, or just once?

For instance, the rule: each time an attack is made with this weapon, make 2 hit rolls instead of 1 - this seems to say that if I have 4 attacks normally, and I make 4 attacks with this weapon, I'm going to get 8 rolls.

This rule: each time the bearer fights, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon - this says to me that if I made 4 attacks using this weapon, I get one extra only, for a total of 5.

Is the above correct?

[Brother Glacius]

wha huh? I thought you had to dedicate an attack with a weapon in order to get its special rule. So in the above example, wouldn't you have to allocate 3 attacks to the 2 for 1 weapon, and then 1 attack to the 1 additional weapon. That would mean 6 attacks of one type, and then two attacks of the other.

Because those are conditional statements "when you...." meaning, if you don't use that weapon, you don't get that rule. Or at least that is how I read it.

[Brother Glacius]

And then more questions surrounding melee. Is this how most people play?

First thing you do is pile in. As crazy as this sounds, it seems like it is best not to touch enemy models. A) you don't have to, B) it limits pile in and consolidate moves.

For example, you charge and get into engagement range. Yay. You pick your unit to fight, it piles in. The rules say you must move closer to the closest model. If I move a model up, but not actually touching an enemy model, this gives me some options to move around an enemy model as long as I end up closer in the end. Sorry, my brain just works like this, not trying to rules lawyer here or anything...but to be specific, I have my model within 1" of enemy model A. When I pile in, I can move my model 3" around model A as long as I end up closer than 1" away from it. The reason is, this allows front models some leeway to move aside so that more back models can get in range.

Fight occurs, enemy models are removed.

Pile in - now since I'm not touching enemy models, my models get to swoosh around again 3" as long as they get a little closer to the closest enemy model. Once I touch an enemy model, then I'm stuck there can not allowed to move. That being said, it might not be good to pile in as that could bring more enemy models into range to fight. So depending on the situation, it might be better not to consolidate.

Does all that sound right?

[lamejosh]

Yo @Brother Glacius!

1) Additional attacks are usually "each time the bearer fights, make X additional attacks with this weapon" and not "each time the bearer fights with this weapon, it makes additional attacks."

Example.  Model with 3 attacks armed with power fist and astartes chainsword.  Allocate 3 attacks to the power fist, and cause he's fighting he gets one more attack with the chainsword.

2) Piling in and such:  yes you got it.  The only additional thing I can think of is melee attacks for models that are not in close combat range.   A model can fight if it is within 1/2" of another model from their own unit that is within 1/2" of an enemy unit.  Thus, if you are piling in to only .9 inches, your second rank of models could not attack.

I am not a rules lawyer!

[Brother Glacius]

Another rules question. So the latest balance dataslate is for matched play. Does this mean that narrative play games like crusade does not use these updates?

[Brother Glacius]

On 9/21/2022 at 4:04 PM, lamejosh said:

2) Piling in and such:  yes you got it.  The only additional thing I can think of is melee attacks for models that are not in close combat range.   A model can fight if it is within 1/2" of another model from their own unit that is within 1/2" of an enemy unit.  Thus, if you are piling in to only .9 inches, your second rank of models could not attack.

I am not a rules lawyer!

yeah, I saw that...while engagement range is 1", models not in engagement range have to be within .5" of someone within .5" of an enemy model in order to fight. Not sure why they did that...why not have models outside of engagement range just be within .5" of someone that is?

[lamejosh]

3 hours ago, Brother Glacius said:

Not sure why they did that...why not have models outside of engagement range just be within .5" of someone that is?

One could go crazy interpreting GW's rules practices.  I presume it's to stop 25mm base models from attacking with a third rank, since they could have two ranks squished in engagement range (1"), and then another rank behind within the .5 inches. 

In the previous edition close combat attacks was within 1" of another model from their own unit that is within 1" of an enemy unit, which had some odd interactions with hordes of small bases and oval bases.