Random thoughts on 7e 40k

[Raak]

So I played my second game of 7e 40k yesterday.

 

Game Impressions: Psychic is a sticky wicket. It can be really difficult to get stuff to go off; especially reliably. I had 19-21 Warp Charges (with a daemon farm/4 herald list) and it was still hard to get Invisibility, Summoning and Hallucination off together in one turn (It happened…turn 2 - It was glorious) much less try any of the other cool powers I had but couldn’t afford the Warp Charge Dice for.

 

My opponent had 21-23 Warp Charges (Grey Knights) for the game so we were fairly evenly matched on Warp Charges and I was able to use my 19-21 Charges to shut down many key casting attempts.

 

The Tactical Objectives were awesome and personally I think that mixing them with Narrative Based or BAO style missions will make for some of the most dynamic (or insane) game play ever. I'm excited.

 

Question: What will the 7e strategy be then for facing an opponent with 20+ WCs when you have a more moderate (though still powerful, albeit just not psychically) list with something in the neighborhood of 10+ Warp Charges? I think Invisibility is so powerful that it might not matter, al least until it’s nerfed or FAQ’d, In some rolling I did I seem to come up O.K. rolling 4 dice with minimal perils and successfully getting invisibility’s 2 WC’s off.  But this excellent article from ToF : http://www.torrentoffire.com/4776/the-math-of-the-new-psychic-phase has  a much more detailed and different picture of what me may be dealing with in the Psychic phase…. <- I’m not sure what that last part really means. I have pretty bad jet lag.

 

EDIT: a word about Summoning here. I managed to successfully summon 10 Pink horrors twice and then Incursion went off I successfully summoned 3 Plague Drones. So I brought 306 points onto the board Via the Malefic Powers but of those 3 units, 2 units of horrors perils'd and while one perils wasn't so bad the other neutered the horrors rendering them cannon fodder. Point being - hot dice or not - starting with 17 Base WC is not a guaranteed Psychic Spam win.

 

...I'd start with 30ish. Now that's spam

Edited June 17, 2014 by Raak

[Raak]

This is my Version 0.1 - Please correct any mistakes you might see.

 

The Warhammer 40,000 7^th Edition Game Sequence V0.1 by Raak

 

1. Select Armies

 2. Roll for Warlord Traits & Generate Psychic Powers then Declare your # of Warp Charge dice

 3. Roll up / Agree Upon a Mission & Tactical Objective(s), if called for.

 4. Agree on Deployment or Roll D3 for: Dawn of War, Vanguard or Hammer & Anvil (p.131)

 5.Deploymet Roll off – Winner Decides who will Deploy 1^st and 2^nd

            5a) Side Deploying 1^st (Player A), Sets Up

            5b) Player B Deploys

            5c) Player A Chooses to take 1^st or 2^nd turn.

            5d) Player B may attempt to seize the initiative with a 6 on a d6 roll

 6. Choose/Agree on Mission(s) (p. 129)

 7. Place Objective Markers

            7a) Roll of to see who places the 1^st marker

 8. Mission Specific NightFight Roll on a 4+

 9. Player A Begins Turn 1

10. Resolve any rule that states “resolve at start of turn”

11. Movement Phase (p. 19)

12.Psychic Phase (p. 22)

            12a)Select Psyker and Psychic Power

            12b)Declare Target

            12c) Psychic Test  i.e. Roll your WarpCharge Dice and resolve any perils

            12d) Deny The Witch

            12e) Resolve the Psychic Power if not denied

13. Shooting Phase (P. 30)

            13a) Nominate Unit to shoot

            13b) Select a Weapon

            13c) Choose a target

            13d) Roll to Hit (BS on rule of 7’s to hit)

            13e) Roll to wound (Weapon Strength vs. Majority Target Toughness to Wound)

            13f) Allocate wounds and remove casualties if saving throw (if available) not made

            13g) Select another weapon and repeat 13b-13g

14.Assault Phase  (p. 44)

            14a) Charge Sub-Phase

                        -1Declare Charge

                        -2 Resolve OverWatch

                        -3 Roll Charge Range (2D6)

                        -4 Charge Move (p.46)

                        -5 Declare next charge or Finish Charge Sub-Phase

            14b) Fight SubPhase (p. 48)

                        -1 Choose a combat

                        -2 Fight Close Combat

                        -3 Determine Assault results

                        -4 Choose next Combat or Finish Assault Phase

            14c) Morale Check (p.57)

                        -1 Determine who won or lost combat

                        -2 Falling Back /Regrouping Test (p.59)/ Sweeping Advance  (p.53)

 

            14d) End of Combat Pile In (p.55)

            14e) Consolidation (1D6)

15. Player A Ends their Turn 1 – Player B now begins their Turn 1

[generalripphook]

Infiltration and scout moves are there too, which would happen before turn 1.

 

I think it looks good other than that.

[Raak]

Infiltration and scout moves are there too, which would happen before turn 1.

 

I think it looks good other than that.

Thanks! good catch! I'll do a final 1.0 after all the errs have been corrected.

[Dark Trainer]

And Necrons have no psykers to defend points with, I haven't played 7th yet, but concerns me that so much psyker is out there, yet I have no options or protection from it.

[Android]

Believe objectives are placed before sides are chosen. Possibly before you determine deployment type.

[intrizic]

And Necrons have no psykers to defend points with, I haven't played 7th yet, but concerns me that so much psyker is out there, yet I have no options or protection from it.

From the one game I've played.... the psychic phase used to be super consistent, it was an odd day that your psyker had a perils of the warp.  In 7th, it's a MUCH different story, [big bad swear word] happens, all sorts of crazy [big bad swear word] happens.  Plus them warp charges only have a 50% chance of going off in your favor, meaning that to reliably cast a power you have significantly invest your warp charge dice.

EX:

A warp charge 3 power will take 6 dice to cast with a 50% chance of going off, to be reliable I would roll 9 dice, but then i have a high chance at rolling a perils.

[TW_Haines]

Also you will have denial dice, with or without a psyker. A dice is rolled for charges both sides get that many dice, plus 1 per mastery level. As a race without psykers you get the base roll number of dice to deny. Chances are you wont keep much from happening unless your lucky, or have a lot of mastery levels in your army, But you can get lucky.

[intrizic]

From the one game I've played.... the psychic phase used to be super consistent, it was an odd day that your psyker had a perils of the warp.  In 7th, it's a MUCH different story, [big bad swear word] happens, all sorts of crazy [big bad swear word] happens.  Plus them warp charges only have a 50% chance of going off in your favor, meaning that to reliably cast a power you have significantly invest your warp charge dice.

EX:

A warp charge 3 power will take 6 dice to cast with a 50% chance of going off, to be reliable I would roll 9 dice, but then i have a high chance at rolling a perils.

This was rubbish and the consequence of multi-tasking, I'm both grateful and slightly disappointed no one pointed this out earlier :D  .

[VonVilkee]

I've been really busy at work... I believe the best bang for dice was at 5 but that really depends on how much you can pour out there. 6 feels about right but 7 would make it stronger. All the while increasing the chance for perils. I could see issues with people totally spamming for 40 ish dice but 20 doesn't scare me at all what are those conjured units adding? Even if you are summoning more "batteries" you are sacrificing 5-7 dice now for possibly one or two next turn. Doesn't seem like the investment would pay off. I can totally see how many players would just feel crushed by weight of numbers but really they are just a few daemons! The greater daemon summon costs you the entire psyker, I'm thinking for a GW balance point it is good.

[Raak]

This was rubbish and the consequence of multi-tasking, I'm both grateful and slightly disappointed no one pointed this out earlier :D  .

 

I dunno -  I got what what you were after there... #win

[Raak]

Believe objectives are placed before sides are chosen. Possibly before you determine deployment type.

 

Thanks!! Adding the change

[Raak]

I've been really busy at work... I believe the best bang for dice was at 5 but that really depends on how much you can pour out there. 6 feels about right but 7 would make it stronger. All the while increasing the chance for perils. I could see issues with people totally spamming for 40 ish dice but 20 doesn't scare me at all what are those conjured units adding? Even if you are summoning more "batteries" you are sacrificing 5-7 dice now for possibly one or two next turn. Doesn't seem like the investment would pay off. I can totally see how many players would just feel crushed by weight of numbers but really they are just a few daemons! The greater daemon summon costs you the entire psyker, I'm thinking for a GW balance point it is good.

 

completely agree with this.

 

I still think having to sacrifice the (presumably) Tzeench Herald (and side question - is it the psyker manifesting the power not one in his unit?eg could a tzeench herald summon a greater daemon and sacrifice any regular horror in his unit?) - either  way - is not too bad. I'll take 3 plague drones or an extra KoS any day but you're right - they're just daemons and as you aptly noted - WC spam has the severe disadvantage of forcing the Daemon General to decide - am I Shooting or Summoning this turn? I mean, my shooting phase is the quickest ever! (I refuse to say "EVAR"...oh damn I just did).

 

I do see advantages in lists that have moderate WCs (like my new 11 WC list <cough cough/> and don't rely on Malefic but roll on it after they have accomplished something more important to their army's purpose (ie the way Jetseer Councils roll on Forewarning first, until they get it and then move on to Biomancy or Divination, or whatevs). I've played 2 games like that now and it's worked out well. the summoned daemons weren't game winning but had I not cluster-screwed myself into corners tactically beforehand the game with 20 horrors and 3 Plague Drones and the game with 3 Tzeralds, a Great Unclean One and 20 Horrors could have been brutal for my oponent but were ultimately satisfying for both players - them because they won and me in a kid in a candy store kind of way, but even then all 4 of my 7e games have yet to see summoning be a determining force.

 

You know what has been? <earmuffs ya'll/> The TACTICAL OBJECTIVES!! Man! They can make it a simple objective based game or a complete and utter crap-shoot. In the end I think they favor experienced generals (duh) but I like them for the flavor that they add and can't wait to see what the Frontline, NOVA, Adepticon and FoB T.O.s come up with for mission combinations. I think that the mission packs will almost be material for mini-narratives to be forged in FLGS and Garages everywhere!

 

TL;DR

<cue the Blue Oyster Cult>

"....Don't fear the Daemons"

"Who cares if GW made a buck"

<guitar riff/>

[intrizic]

another lesson I'm learning, plan out your psychic phase, just because you have the ability to cast something DOES NOT mean you'll have the dice to reliably cast something.  I think the stock of 1 warp charge (WC) spells have gone up immensely 

[intrizic]

One more thing:

Invisible IS that silly, so much defensive power in that spell.  One reliable way around invisible are hammer of wrath attacks as they auto hit.  So while bikes did take a hit because of the new jink rule, they got a buff because of HoW attacks.

 

I think invis should be a WC 3 spell, it's just that good.

 

Question: Can a level 1 psyker cast a spell with 2+ WCs?

[huggies01]

another lesson I'm learning, plan out your psychic phase, just because you have the ability to cast something DOES NOT mean you'll have the dice to reliably cast something.  I think the stock of 1 warp charge (WC) spells have gone up immensely 

I agree. However they are next to impossible to deny now. So far I have seen nothing in the rule book that disallows the use of a wc2 power being cast by a wc1 psyker. Just fugheditaboitit.

[intrizic]

 However they are next to impossible to deny now. 

Compared to 6th they are just so random now.  I've played 2 games so far of 7th, against psychic heavy armies and I have seen dem psychic dice say no and end up just destroying my opponent by not getting invis or some other key power.

[VonVilkee]

Insid I giggle when someone relies on something like invisibility... I start ignoring it and focus on the unprotected bits...keeping an eye on the typical target, when that fail turn happens I punish the invisibility. Just be patient and accept that things die or don't as part of what is going on.

[Jayne_Cobbb]

Insid I giggle when someone relies on something like invisibility... I start ignoring it and focus on the unprotected bits...keeping an eye on the typical target, when that fail turn happens I punish the invisibility. Just be patient and accept that things die or don't as part of what is going on.

 

That being said... Death Company Landraider with Invisibility...

 

 

Droooooollllll

[huggies01]

Psychic powers are for flimsy chumpcicles.

[Hobbitron]

1wc on 1d had: 50.09% passrate. Perils @ 0%. DaemonPerils @ 0%

1wc on 2d had: 75.01% passrate. Perils @ 2.81%. DaemonPerils @ 16.71%

1wc on 3d had: 87.51% passrate. Perils @ 7.37%. DaemonPerils @ 44.39%

1wc on 4d had: 93.7% passrate. Perils @ 13.21%. DaemonPerils @ 72.37%

2wc on 2d had: 25.04% passrate. Perils @ 2.79%. DaemonPerils @ 16.71%

2wc on 3d had: 50.18% passrate. Perils @ 7.37%. DaemonPerils @ 44.39%

2wc on 4d had: 68.71% passrate. Perils @ 13.11%. DaemonPerils @ 72.16%

2wc on 5d had: 81.28% passrate. Perils @ 19.7%. DaemonPerils @ 90.81%

2wc on 6d had: 89.09% passrate. Perils @ 26.35%. DaemonPerils @ 98.45%

2wc on 7d had: 93.74% passrate. Perils @ 33.06%. DaemonPerils @ 100%

2wc on 8d had: 96.49% passrate. Perils @ 39.51%. DaemonPerils @ 100%

3wc on 3d had: 12.49% passrate. Perils @ 7.43%. DaemonPerils @ 44.48%

3wc on 4d had: 31.2% passrate. Perils @ 13.11%. DaemonPerils @ 72.18%

3wc on 5d had: 49.93% passrate. Perils @ 19.77%. DaemonPerils @ 90.69%

3wc on 6d had: 65.59% passrate. Perils @ 26.27%. DaemonPerils @ 98.46%

3wc on 7d had: 77.36% passrate. Perils @ 32.99%. DaemonPerils @ 100%

3wc on 8d had: 85.52% passrate. Perils @ 39.54%. DaemonPerils @ 100%

3wc on 9d had: 90.97% passrate. Perils @ 45.86%. DaemonPerils @ 100%

3wc on 10d had: 94.46% passrate. Perils @ 51.52%. DaemonPerils @ 100%

3wc on 11d had: 96.69% passrate. Perils @ 56.85%. DaemonPerils @ 100%

3wc on 12d had: 98.06% passrate. Perils @ 61.85%. DaemonPerils @ 100%

 

There are your numbers. Have fun. To be clear about the breakout:

 

3wc on 12d means attempting to get 3 warp charges with 12 dice. Passrate is the chances of getting the 4+ needed, perils is pretty easy to figure out, DaemonPerils is casting Malefications/Sanctification (or whatever they are) and not being of the appropriate armies.

[Dark Trainer]

I don't mind so many perils...as a Necron player I couldn't handle it if you didn't peril so often. Especially with some of those silly powers being pretty strong.