Who's EXCITED For The New Horde Army !?!?!

[Tao Tsê-Mung]

Now that they've received a 25% point reduction across the board, six battleforces all their own, more named characters than the entire model line of any other faction, and even more special snowflake rules on the way - surely the salt will cease and Space Fascist players will finally be contented . . .

[Ish]

Don’t forget that the Force Organization Chart, which has been around for decades and was based almost entirely on this one faction’s canonical order of battle, has now been effectively scrapped organized play because the design team found it too troublesome to make their new toys fit into the old structure.

 

[Ish]

Yet.

[Tao Tsê-Mung]

38 minutes ago, Ish said:

Don’t forget that the Force Organization Chart, which has been around for decades and was based almost entirely on this one faction’s canonical order of battle, has now been effectively scrapped organized play because the design team found it too troublesome to make their new toys fit into the old structure.

 

$35 for 10 troops is sooo 2000-&-Late.

Gotta sell them Elite $60 3-Man & $70 Hovercar Space Nazi kits.

[Ish]

36 minutes ago, Tao Tsê-Mung said:

Gotta sell them Elite $60 3-Man & $70 Hovercar Space Nazi kits.

[ Hides Adeptus Custodes ]

[Brother Glacius]

I can remember when playing meant you just needed to know the stat line of the shooter, the target, and the weapon. Any games do that anymore?

 

[Andrewgeddon]

25 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said:

I can remember when playing meant you just needed to know the stat line of the shooter, the target, and the weapon. Any games do that anymore?

 

*cough cough nothingtoseehere cough*

[Brother Glacius]

I'm a patreon of them actually. Just haven't gotten to a point of trying a game out...but its on my to-do list.

 

[Ish]

4 hours ago, Brother Glacius said:

I can remember when playing meant you just needed to know the stat line of the shooter, the target, and the weapon. Any games do that anymore?

 

Honestly, as time goes by, I find myself missing the utter simplicity of WH40k’s Third Edition.

IMHO, RT and Second were both a bit too granular, closer to roleplaying games in terms of detail, which was okay if you had four hours to devout to a skirmish between a platoon of Guard and two squads of Marines. But kinda stunk as a fast playing system or for large games.

Ever since Fourth Edition, and increasingly with each subsequent one, GW seems to be obsessed with tournaments and competitive play. I don’t mind tourneys as an occasional thing, but I don’t want that to be the driving force behind the design.

Third was simple enough to play out a game with a Demi-Company of Marines (or about a Company of Orks/Guard/Space Elfs) in about two hours, had plenty of special abilities to make all the factions feel unique (including all 37 flavors of Mahreen)… Without the extra complexity of Tactics, Stratagems, Secondaries, Doctrines, Super-Doctrines, Detachments, and ohmygodivegonecrosseyed.

So, yeah, I kinda want to try Grimdark Future.

[Tao Tsê-Mung]

I want to like OPR so much but it's just too samey - every faction has access to all of the special abilities like FNP or Psykers. And their addiction to only using values of 1 or 3 on wounds/damage, and only values of 1 or 4 on AP is too arbitrarily limiting. Even multi-damage wounds/shots are always factors of three.

They should at least have some variability in the unit stats. That would still be just as straightforward and avoid all the weird rules interactions and gotcha moments - but would be far more interesting, flavorful, and make factions unique.

[Andrewgeddon]

On 1/6/2023 at 12:57 PM, Ish said:

Honestly, as time goes by, I find myself missing the utter simplicity of WH40k’s Third Edition.

IMHO, RT and Second were both a bit too granular, closer to roleplaying games in terms of detail, which was okay if you had four hours to devout to a skirmish between a platoon of Guard and two squads of Marines. But kinda stunk as a fast playing system or for large games.

Ever since Fourth Edition, and increasingly with each subsequent one, GW seems to be obsessed with tournaments and competitive play. I don’t mind tourneys as an occasional thing, but I don’t want that to be the driving force behind the design.

Third was simple enough to play out a game with a Demi-Company of Marines (or about a Company of Orks/Guard/Space Elfs) in about two hours, had plenty of special abilities to make all the factions feel unique (including all 37 flavors of Mahreen)… Without the extra complexity of Tactics, Stratagems, Secondaries, Doctrines, Super-Doctrines, Detachments, and ohmygodivegonecrosseyed.

So, yeah, I kinda want to try Grimdark Future.

On the note of 3rd edition 40K, I was going through boxes today and came across these which were gifted to me forever ago:

I never played 3rd edition, but I love the art, and I guess it is pretty well regarded by a lot of "Oldhammer" players. I ordered a 3rd ed Tyranid codex to check it out, maybe there's a little bit of 3rd ed in my future 🙂

[Tao Tsê-Mung]

What other xenos factions were around back then?

[Ish]

1 hour ago, Tao Tsê-Mung said:

What other xenos factions were around back then?

Third Edition had xenos codices for Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Tyranids, Tau, and Necrons.

Tau debuted late in third edition and Necrons went from a very small list in ‘White Dwarf’ very late in second editionto a full army in third. 

There were rumors throughout the edition that Genestealer Cults, Kroot, and Squats were going to get codices of their own… But obviously that never happened.

[Tao Tsê-Mung]

44 minutes ago, Ish said:

Third Edition had xenos codices for Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Tyranids, Tau, and Necrons.

Tau debuted late in third edition and Necrons went from a very small list in ‘White Dwarf’ very late in second editionto a full army in third. 

There were rumors throughout the edition that Genestealer Cults, Kroot, and Squats were going to get codices of their own… But obviously that never happened.

Awesome!

[Ish]

It probably wouldn’t be impossible to “retrofit” some of the armies and units that came out later… More effort than I would want to expend, but do-able.

[dalmer]

Third edition was fantastic.  After a long layoff and coming back to 7th or 8th, I can't recall which, I was quickly turned off by the cards and such.  Probably because (at least for me) third edition was so smooth to play.

[Ish]

Saw this posted on Reddit once and it stuck with me:

[quote]
I just want a version of the game where the gap between "base power" and "maximum power" is dependent on the board state and not just on stuff you freely declare about the model. 

Normal wargame: 

The models power is 1. It is standing still, firing at a target it can fully see, it is behind the target, and it is in close range. It's power is modified to 4. 

40k: 

The models power is 1. But it is a member of the well known stabby bois The Good Stabbers. And it's standing near a Stabmeister. And it's been upgraded with an extra stabby Stabber. And I declare the special stratagem "it's stabbing time." Oh and i can only see 1 square millimeter of one model in the target unit and it's at the very edge of my maximum range but who cares that doesn't matter. The models power is modified to 10.
[/quote]

I’m cool with a little bit of customization (“This model’s power is 1, but I upgraded one model in the unit to have an anti-tank gun so they’re power 2 versus tanks.”) and some synergy between models (“This is Leader Guy, friendly models near Leader Guy have their morale increased by 1”).

But GW has just sort of decided to grab every possible rules mechanic in the hobby and stuff them all into WH40k: universal special rules based on unit type, faction special rules, subfaction special rules, special rules for specific models, cards, spells, missions, secondary missions, scenarios, campaigns… 

For crissakes, I play Adeptus Custodes. I have less than twenty models on the table in a 2,000 Point game — why do I need three pages of notes to remember what my toy soldiers can do!?

[Andrewgeddon]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

I’m cool with a little bit of customization (“This model’s power is 1, but I upgraded one model in the unit to have an anti-tank gun so they’re power 2 versus tanks.”) and some synergy between models (“This is Leader Guy, friendly models near Leader Guy have their morale increased by 1”).

But GW has just sort of decided to grab every possible rules mechanic in the hobby and stuff them all into WH40k: universal special rules based on unit type, faction special rules, subfaction special rules, special rules for specific models, cards, spells, missions, secondary missions, scenarios, campaigns… 

Wish I could like this a 2nd time.