gyros and deathblow

[MexicanNinja]

Nater, I was lookin over some rules and you've been playin the bombs wrong, unless there's an faq I have"t seen. You have to fly over the unit. That 1" bounce back doesn't work. If you can't fly over the unit, you can't drop the bomb on the unit.

 

Also, you can't deathblow if you die from impact hits.

[Don't Panic]

1. yes you can.  single models with fly can do it for sure(free pivots). its the EXACT same rule argument essentially as the drop rocks for terradon lizardmen.  and its argued the same way. 'Select one unengaged enemy unit that the gyrocopter moved over in that turn." moved over does not imply moving through the entire unit, it only means any movement done over the unit.    if i even simply clip the edge of your base, i moved over it.  so thats why i say you have to be just under 19 inches for me to bomb you.  (still have to land 1 inch away from enemy!) same way for the bomber as well except he gets to place a nasty 5 inch template ANYWHERE on the unit and scatter.  and he can bomb and shoot his gun, unlike the copter which specifically states you cant shoot and bomb same turn.  im almost certain its legal.  

2. yup i knew that.  did i misplay it? i know i played it correct tonight, so idk why i would have forgotten last week?  impact hits are the one thing you cant deathblow in cc.  you can for stomps though. 

[Don't Panic]

now something that needs a FAQ for dwarfs is stand and shoot with copters... im never going to do that cause its not clear.  technically it can by rules since its a shooting attack, but how does it work is the big debate...

[Kremmet]

Yes, Nater has the bombing run idea right.

 

The SaS thing with the Steam Gun is interesting to be sure, but is more of a RAI thing if you're arguing against it.  The real kicker, in my opinion, is how Deathblow is rolled.  Since it's resolved model by model and states you must do it immediately it makes it so you cannot batch roll versus Slayers in RAW.  You have to tell the dwarf the target of every one of your attacks and roll them all individually with interruptions happening each time a slayer dies (who then makes his attack(s) against any model in BtB with him) before removing a model from the back.  Horrifically convoluted rule that is easily solved by treating "immediately" to mean simultaneous strikes, but it definitely isn't clear cut by the RAW.

[Don't Panic]

deathblows are down in sequence after each initiative step.  not after every single attack.  the only dicey part really with deathblows is when you have a character heavy unit attacking the slayers.  then the opponent needs to specify where he is attacking so the dwarf player knows where he can put his deathblows back.  cause there will generally be many slayers base to base and they do NOT have to put it back into that character unless its a challenge to a giant/dragon/daemon slayer or if the model attacked is completely covered by the attacking character.  

[Kremmet]

Out of curiosity, where does it state you do it after each initiative step? I don't see anything in the main rulebook and the dwarf book specifically states immediately and not initiative step.

[Don't Panic]

initiative order, pg50.  as typical with GW you have to work rules from back and forth instead of them being straightforward >:( very annoying... so attacks are done simultaneously at initiative order.  immediately refers to a point in time, but you cant break up something that is simultaneous in time.  you do, however, take deathblows from things at different initiative orders.  that is where the word immediately comes into play.  for example, a character at I5 and his unit is at I4.  wounds from the character will be deathblowed before the unit strikes.  things like this will very rarely matter though.  like if there is just a character and 1 unit piece left would be one of those few instances.  

[Kremmet]

I do prefer your interpretation, but I'm still not sure it's rock solid.  Deathblow makes no reference to initiative order at all and in fact specifically exists outside the normal sequencing of attacks.   While I agree that immediately is a reference to the time in which the attack takes place, the timing has nothing to do with the normal sequencing spelled out on pg. 50 and in fact talks about how everything is resolved like a normal close combat attack except for timing.  As written, the time that you take each Deathblow is immediately upon being reduced to 0 wounds.  You do not use an initiative step as the dwarf specifically interrupts normal sequencing to make the Deathblow in the first place.

 

Again I personally do my deathblows at the end of each combat step (ie initiative step), but I see no specific language leading me to believe this is actually correct. 

[MexicanNinja]

As a side note. Army specific rules override the normal rules.