Jink, Templates, and Overwatch

[WestRider]

OK, so I've got, say, a SM Bike Squad with a pair of Flamers. They Jink to get saves against a Battle Cannon, and then get Charged. Can they fire the Flamers on Overwatch?

 

Jink forces all shots to simply be Snap Shots, which prohibits Templates. Overwatch also forces Snap Shots, but has an exemption allowing Templates to fire in a modified fashion.

 

Is Overwatch more specific, and therefore overrules the general use of Snap Shots forced by Jink? Or does the overall effect of Jink still apply as well, prohibiting Templates?

[dalmer]

Hello there,

 

I'm sure smarter folks will chime in but the way I understand it:

 

*  your bike squad jinks in the opponent's shooting phase

 

*  your bike squad gets charged

 

*  you want to use your bike's flamer weapons... so...

 

Wouldn't this be the "wall of death" rule wherein you get d3 hits on the unit with each flamer template weapon?

[WestRider]

Jink forces Snap Shots until the start of the Opponent's next Turn. That restriction is still in effect during that Assault Phase when the Bikes get Charged. But Overwatch might overrule it. But I don't know.

 

It's not something that's actually come up yet, but I'm planning on running a couple of eGrub Flyrants on Sunday, and it may well matter there.

[VonVilkee]

Usr are more specific. Jink says all shots while wall of death gives ability to attack in a specific phase in a specific way, my two cents is wall of death is more specific and overrides.

[WestRider]

That's what I was hoping!

[fluger]

Side question, if a unit goes to ground can they use wall of death in overwatch?  Wouldn't that be the same situation?  Not an answer, just another question.

[WestRider]

In 7th, Going to Ground disallows Overwatch entirely, so it's a moot point. In 6th, that would have mattered, tho.

[Guest]

I've been assuming that when a unit is charged, status effects like jinking and pinning go away. No page reference for this, but if fleeing, you do auto-regroup if charged, so seemed like a reasonable approach. I'll admit, I don't have 7th's rules down as much as I had sixth or fifth. I don't seem to be alone, as I've noticed many times many more issues with inconsistent rules between regular players.

 

Just other day, we had two different groups of regulars arguing about our game regarding who goes first if you choose to deploy second...

[Guest]

Forgot to add, on topic, came up the other day. Bikes are shot at and jink. They are then charged. At the end of combat, they use hit and run to escape combat. On my turn, have they still jinked? I've been assuming no, but I don't have a rules basis for that. They've just done so much since that shooting phase, it seems unreasonable to carry over that jink effect.

[fluger]

In 7th, Going to Ground disallows Overwatch entirely, so it's a moot point. In 6th, that would have mattered, tho.

 

 

WHOA!  Missed that!  

[WestRider]

@Pax: Jinking doesn't have any exceptions I can see that will clear it early. As far as I can tell, if you Jink, the Cover Save stays in effect until the start of your next Movement Phase, and the Snap Shot limitation stays in effect until the end of your next Turn, regardless of what else they do or what else happens to them.

 

Going to Ground clears if the Unit is forced to move for any reason. Fall Back moves and Pile In moves would count, but as far as I can tell, if a Unit that has Gone to Ground gets Charged in a way that does not force any of their Models to move, it does not change their Gone to Ground status.

 

@Fluger: The limitation on Going to Ground and Overwatch is only mentioned in the Going to Ground sidebar on Pg.38, not in the Overwatch section.

[Guest]

@Pax: Jinking doesn't have any exceptions I can see that will clear it early. As far as I can tell, if you Jink, the Cover Save stays in effect until the start of your next Movement Phase, and the Snap Shot limitation stays in effect until the end of your next Turn, regardless of what else they do or what else happens to them.

 

Going to Ground clears if the Unit is forced to move for any reason. Fall Back moves and Pile In moves would count, but as far as I can tell, if a Unit that has Gone to Ground gets Charged in a way that does not force any of their Models to move, it does not change their Gone to Ground status.

So, if charged, then either fallen back, consolidated, hit-n-run, or moving at their initiative step, the models would lose the gone to ground status..? Jink, on the other hand, doesn't go away under similar conditions?

[pretre]

Yes.

[WestRider]

You can't move voluntarily while Gone to Ground. So if you get Charged in a way that doesn't require your dudes to move, and win before the end of your Turn after you Went to Ground, you would not be allowed to make a Consolidation move or Hit & Run, because you'd still be under the restrictions of Going to Ground, and those moves are optional.

 

If even one Model is forced to make a Pile In move, tho, that gets them up, and they're no longer Gone to Ground.

 

I suspect that the intention was for getting into an Assault to clear Gone to Ground status entirely, but that's not what GW actually wrote in the Rules.