fluger Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 There are several melee units that need love, beasts is too far IMO. I'd like to see Howling Banshees have their helmets deny enemies the bonus for being in terrain when assaulted (obviating the need for grenades without having to actually give them grenades) and then give them AP2 power swords. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Slight change of topic, did anyone build lists using Hellions as troops? Cause ya know that's going away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 They need some serious points tweaks IMO. Also, they got close to making warrior squads good, but missed the mark a smidge. If it were me, I'd make them have 4+ armor instead of 5+ and then give them some kind of rule that they can assault after firing their splinter rifles. I've been saying for years that Splinter Rifles should have been an Assault weapon, while Shuricats should have been Rapid Fire. I also think DE should be base WS4/BS3, with Craftworld Eldar the other way around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Those are interesting ideas. Honestly, with Battle Focus, guardians are fine. Warriors just need some love. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Giving Guardians a Rapid Fire weapon would actually be a nerf in some ways, since they wouldn't have the option of pulling a shoot-charge when they need to. It was more about trying to fit the fluff better, where Guardians are citizen-soldiers who don't have all-round training and want to stick to firefights, while even the run-of-the-mill Dark Eldar are in it because they enjoy cutting people up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I've been saying for years that Splinter Rifles should have been an Assault weapon, while Shuricats should have been Rapid Fire. I also think DE should be base WS4/BS3, with Craftworld Eldar the other way around. I can get behind that for wyches but not warriors. DE only have warriors there are no conscripts in the fallen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I can get behind that for wyches but not warriors. DE only have warriors there are no conscripts in the fallen I get that, but I'd like to see a CC bias across the whole Army. Think of it as reflecting enthusiasm more than skill as such. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I see a lot of comments here about making things more powerful and im not really for a lot of it. 4+ on WARRIORS? no. That's excessive I think. Warriors are a shooting unit. Its that simple. Trying to make them a catch all doesn't resonate with me because with that theory in mind, we'd all just playing space marines basically. Dark Eldar trtoops are wicked fast on INIT and that is their advantage. I think thats the way it ought to be. heavy armor only slows ya down. Wyches getting invul saves at all, let alone 4+ in melee is really really good. No upgrade character needed, just a 4+ invvul. thats truly epic, actually. yeah gettign them THERE is the issue but i think its only an issue because Dark Eldar Generals get too greedy wanting to shoot their Venoms rather than deliver payloads. I blame this on the Generals not the unit. I've seen wyches do amazing things when the player actually commits to that. Dark eldar have an AMAZINGLY strong ability to force target priority that gets WAY under used. i dont just mean "following best practcies" when firign at Dark eldar either. Dark Eldar can MAKE you fire at things you'd rather not. i love that about them and it's why, if I ever wanted to use wyches( I really don't...yet...), My imagination is rife with ways to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 If we're using fluff justifications for things, why are models in terminator armor still I4? What about Incubi? They are still fast! Heck, Striking Scorpions still have FLEET in 3+ armor and the exarch is swinging a powerfist at I5. Going to 4+ on them doesn't make them a melee unit, it makes them better at dealing with bolters. Letting them assault after shooting rapid fire weapons doesn't make them a melee unit, just makes them more versatile. Heck, Tactical marines have pistols so they can shoot and then assault. 4++ save is nice for the most part, but isn't really all the exciting for two reasons: 1. wyches don't really do a ton of damage: 2. T3 and 4+ save is pretty poopy against models with lots of attacks, but great at tarpitting units that are relying on high strength, low AP attacks. Weirdly, for a unit that fluffwise should be good at killing infantry, they really shine with haywire grenades at taking on dreadnaughts or even freaking knights. LOL. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Ideally, DE will get a kit that doubles as alternate storm guardians without much conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 i really dislike that I can't delete my posts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 If we're using fluff justifications for things, why are models in terminator armor still I4? What about Incubi? They are still fast! Heck, Striking Scorpions still have FLEET in 3+ armor and the exarch is swinging a powerfist at I5. Going to 4+ on them doesn't make them a melee unit, it makes them better at dealing with bolters. Letting them assault after shooting rapid fire weapons doesn't make them a melee unit, just makes them more versatile. Heck, Tactical marines have pistols so they can shoot and then assault. 4++ save is nice for the most part, but isn't really all the exciting for two reasons: 1. wyches don't really do a ton of damage: 2. T3 and 4+ save is pretty poopy against models with lots of attacks, but great at tarpitting units that are relying on high strength, low AP attacks. Weirdly, for a unit that fluffwise should be good at killing infantry, they really shine with haywire grenades at taking on dreadnaughts or even freaking knights. LOL. Yeah but why should they be better at dealing with bolters? Bolters are supp really nasty weaspons and Dark Eldar are suposed to by lythe killers. Life isnt fair and not everyone gets armor saves, as it should be. spent uranium should just about do anyone in but the absolute toughest armor. Since when have Dark Eldar even been aboue that? they are all about DEALING it. counterpunching supeer hard ULTRA fast movement. ULTRA high INIT. ULTRA high shot output and ultra high AP. They are the ultimate glass hammer and I love that about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Yeah but why should they be better at dealing with bolters? Bolters are supp really nasty weaspons and Dark Eldar are suposed to by lythe killers. Life isnt fair and not everyone gets armor saves, as it should be. spent uranium should just about do anyone in but the absolute toughest armor. Since when have Dark Eldar even been aboue that? they are all about DEALING it. counterpunching supeer hard ULTRA fast movement. ULTRA high INIT. ULTRA high shot output and ultra high AP. They are the ultimate glass hammer and I love that about them. It would be cool to paint a DE army to look as though it were made of glass.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Yeah but why should they be better at dealing with bolters? Bolters are supp really nasty weaspons and Dark Eldar are suposed to by lythe killers. Life isnt fair and not everyone gets armor saves, as it should be. spent uranium should just about do anyone in but the absolute toughest armor. Since when have Dark Eldar even been aboue that? they are all about DEALING it. counterpunching supeer hard ULTRA fast movement. ULTRA high INIT. ULTRA high shot output and ultra high AP. They are the ultimate glass hammer and I love that about them. Ultra fast movement? They are just fleet, that's not THAT fast really. Heck, Orks have a better threat range when they call the waagh. Ultra high Init? It's just 4 base, only wyches have I6. That's not Ultra anything. Ultra high shot output? Outside of splinter cannons, I'm not seeing how they shoot more than most armies. Ultra high AP? Wouldn't that be a bad thing? Or did you mean low AP? They have pretty good access to low AP shooting on every unit, so this checks out. I'm not saying Dark Eldar are like AWFUL, but they really don't have what you are describing when it comes to the stats. They definitely need love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 via an anonymous source of Faeit 212 ***** Next weeks white dwarf #35 shows the DE Void Raven. Here is what the new cover says. Watch the Skies! Dark Eldar Flyer Incoming! Fear the Voidraven Bomber Battlefields Darken in the Shadow of Sickle-Shaped Wings Its has most of the aesthetics of the Razorwing Fighter, but larger with 4 Engines, 3 tail fins, and two Void Lances that protruding from the wings. In the main body, the pilot sits on a set of small bat-like wings with a long nose along the front. Its a gorgeous model, and if you like the razorwing fighter, the Voidraven looks very similar, just bigger and longer. Where the razorwing nose is open, there is a canopy for a nose pilot in the voidraven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Did I not realize that the Voidraven didn't have a model until now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Yeah, the fighter had a model but not the bomber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 It would be cool to paint a DE army to look as though it were made of glass I wonder how you'd so that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Ultra fast movement? They are just fleet, that's not THAT fast really. Heck, Orks have a better threat range when they call the waagh. Ultra high Init? It's just 4 base, only wyches have I6. That's not Ultra anything. Ultra high shot output? Outside of splinter cannons, I'm not seeing how they shoot more than most armies. Ultra high AP? Wouldn't that be a bad thing? Or did you mean low AP? They have pretty good access to low AP shooting on every unit, so this checks out. I'm not saying Dark Eldar are like AWFUL, but they really don't have what you are describing when it comes to the stats. They definitely need love. Fleet is fast. the INIT on many of the models are higher than 4. And the image I have of what they ought to be is what i was addressing. Theyre not some heavily armored force. they are pirates! And yes i meant low AP. Dark eldar speed is incredibly impressive throughout the army. Raiders give anything slow wings and great ablation. the army is just REALLY cool when played to the strength of speed and lightning quick attacks, fading away and attacking again! so cool. I am really in love with the army. I had wanted them for a SUUUUUUUPER long time and the author of the Fox Elvensword books, George Butler, bought it for me as a gift. I've been enjoying them ever since. Hey, the Talos... I wonder what they will do there? squadrons of three? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm addressing the image of what I want them to be. Wyches should be able to move faster, more reliably, beasts is too much. Assault after running. Done. Warriors are pirates, I don't see a reason NOT to give them 4+ armor, it's a great difference for them and guardians, I like the change, honestly. I'd also like to see splinter rifles have some kind of similar ability to splinter cannons, like assault 1, heavy 3, and then be s3 with shred instead of poison. (incidentally, splinter cannons would be S4 with shred as well) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Something like this: Dark Eldar Warrior 12 pts WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv 4 4 3 3 1 5 1 8 4+ USRs Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain Raiders: Dark Eldar warriors can still assault after firing Splinter Rifles. Weapons and Equipment: Splinter Rifle: Range S AP Rules 24" 3 5 Shred Poisoned Blades: Range S AP Rules melee User - Poison 4+ Warrior Armor: 4+ save 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Yeah, the fighter had a model but not the bomber. Considering the way rules without models are going away, I think GW has had the model for a while now and just didn't find a good opportunity to release it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Preorders up: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I want a mechanical tail! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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