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Scout Shenanigans - Rules Question


pretre

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An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being

deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in Reserve, by you informing your

opponent of which unit it has joined.

 

After both sides have deployed (including Infiltrators), but before the first

player begins his first turn, a unit containing at least one model with this

special rule can choose to redeploy. If the unit is Infantry, Artillery, a Walker

or a Monstrous Creature, each model can redeploy anywhere entirely within 6"

of its current position. If it is any other unit type, each model can instead

redeploy anywhere entirely within 12" of its current position. During this

redeployment, Scouts can move outside the owning player’s deployment zone,

but must remain more than 12" away from any enemy unit. A unit that makes

a Scout redeployment cannot charge in the first game turn. A unit cannotembark or disembark as part of a Scout redeployment.

 

 

Okay, so here's the scenario.

 

I deploy my inquisitor with scout book with my TWC. That gives them scout if I make my LD test.

 

Scout redeploy comes up, so I can redeploy each model within 12" of their current position. I redeploy the TWC 12" forward. I redeploy the Inquisitor 12" back to another unit.

 

It says you can't embark, but it doesn't say that I can't leave the unit. ICs deploy to units by being in coherency and leave units by being out. By moving him out of coherency with the TWC and in coherency with another unit, I've redeployed him. The key seems to be that each model gets to redeploy, not each unit.

 

Thoughts?

 

edit: Can the redeployment granted by scout be used to allow an IC to redeploy to with a new unit?

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Seems like this loophole works.  Kinda wonky though.  And I'd give you the stink eye.  

Meh. I can take the stink eye.

 

It's the Scout dude pointing out where they should go and then hoofing it back to somewhere safe. :)

 

edit: and it's a way to keep him alive if I decide to make him my warlord.

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I would say no, based on the bit where it says that ICs can only Join or Leave Units during the Movement Phase, other than the exception given for Joining during Deployment (but there's no exception for Leaving during Deployment). Once you've Joined during Deployment, your next chance to change that is during your first Movement Phase.

 

In looking things up for this, tho, I did notice that there's no requirement that Units be Deployed in Unit Coherency. If you do Deploy them out of Coherency, you're going to have to move them to try to regain it during your first Movement Phase, but I can still see possibilities for Screening shenanigans with Gargoyles or something.

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I would say no, based on the bit where it says that ICs can only Join or Leave Units during the Movement Phase, other than the exception given for Joining during Deployment (but there's no exception for Leaving during Deployment). Once you've Joined during Deployment, your next chance to change that is during your first Movement Phase.

 

In looking things up for this, tho, I did notice that there's no requirement that Units be Deployed in Unit Coherency. If you do Deploy them out of Coherency, you're going to have to move them to try to regain it during your first Movement Phase, but I can still see possibilities for Screening shenanigans with Gargoyles or something.

Okay, that I can dig.

 

So he would still be part of the unit, but out of coherency. Then first turn, I move the TWC forward and him back again and he leaves the unit and joins a new one.

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Devils advocate:

 

Only having scout allows you to redeploy outside of the deployment zone. Once the character leaves unless the twc is completely with in your deployment zone you are deployed illegally. Refute?

The book gives him and his unit the special rule. So he can leave the unit and they still have it.

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The bit about not having to Deploy in Coherency only applies to the fundamental Unit itself. The IC is required to be in Coherency with them to Join it.

Right. But once he's with it, he's not required to stay in coherency for the redeploy.

 

Which then ties into wests point that the inquisitor is still part of the unit... Even tho they are like 24" away...

 

He would be easy to kill depending on angles until he could actually change units...

Yes. This is definitely a problem. If you don't have first turn, you could get him nuked because the angles to get to him are pretty easy and he's way out of Look Out sir range.

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But he has joined it... With the redeploy depends on if he he leaves it. If he leaves they would no longer have scouts. I'd be a jerk about him having to be there or your twc being in your deployment zone. Can't have both scouts and be out of coherency with your unit cuz you wouldn't be in it any more hence they lose scout.

 

If you redeploy the character out side of the two inches he is not deployed with the unit and therefore they would not have him as a member anymore.

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But he has joined it... With the redeploy depends on if he he leaves it. If he leaves they would no longer have scouts. I'd be a jerk about him having to be there or your twc being in your deployment zone. Can't have both scouts and be out of coherency with your unit cuz you wouldn't be in it any more hence they lose scout.

 

If you redeploy the character out side of the two inches he is not deployed with the unit and therefore they would not have him as a member anymore.

No. He specifically give himself and the unit the special rule. And the rules for Independent Characters says that if they leave, they keep ongoing effects. Not to mention, once they have redeployed, it doesn't matter if they have the special rule or not anymore. They were granted the ability to move and did so. Same as if you rolled the Infiltrate 3 units warlord trait. You infiltrate the three units but at no time do they have the infiltrate special rule.

 

"The bearer of the Liber Heresius, and his unit, gain that special rule until the start of their next turn." So his unit has the special rule even if he disappears.

 

If you don't believe that though...

 

"Independent Characters and Ongoing Effects

Sometimes, a unit that an Independent Character has joined will be the target of a

beneficial or harmful effect, such as those bestowed by the Blind special rule, for

example. If the character leaves the unit, both he and the unit continue to be affected by

the effect, so you’ll need to mark the character accordingly."

The book is definitely giving a beneficial effect.

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I would have to vote nay.  :biggrin:

 

Independent character p. 166  

-An IC can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it.

-While an independant character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.

 

Scout P. 171

-has been stated above, but references unit type, not special rules (IC).

-After deployment but before first player begins his first turn.

 

Turn summary p. 17

-1 start of turn

-2 movement phase.

 

Characters and moving p. 100

-Characters follow the movement rules for models of their type, infantry, jump, bikes, ect.  However, remember that they must remain in unit coherency with any unit they are in.

 

Unit coherency p. 19

-Once a unit has finished moving, it must form a chain where the distance between one model and the next is no more than 2" horizontally.

 

He could join the unit, and redeploy 6" with them (he would be infantry type, unless i missed something) but would have to remain within 2" of them until the owning players first movement phase.  Just my 2 cents. 

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I would have to vote nay.  :biggrin:

 

Independent character p. 166  

-An IC can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it.

-While an independant character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.

 

Scout P. 171

-has been stated above, but references unit type, not special rules (IC).

-After deployment but before first player begins his first turn.

 

Turn summary p. 17

-1 start of turn

-2 movement phase.

 

Characters and moving p. 100

-Characters follow the movement rules for models of their type, infantry, jump, bikes, ect.  However, remember that they must remain in unit coherency with any unit they are in.

 

Unit coherency p. 19

-Once a unit has finished moving, it must form a chain where the distance between one model and the next is no more than 2" horizontally.

 

He could join the unit, and redeploy 6" with them (he would be infantry type, unless i missed something) but would have to remain within 2" of them until the owning players first movement phase.  Just my 2 cents. 

Yeah, it is 6".

 

The difference is that he is 'redeploying', not moving. Deployment allows you to join a unit by being in coherency. Deployment also does not require coherency.

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Btw, not trying to be 'that guy'  :biggrin: .   I always worry that I come off like a tool when I debate with folks.  Wanted to set my tone  :happy: .

 

While there is no specific language for how the TWC have to deploy (in coherency or not) the IC would have to be within 2" of at least one of them, per p.100.  There is no reference to phase or type of movement (or redeployment), only the restriction that they maintain coherency with the unit they are 'in'.  

 

A rule that says it can't (be outside of 2") cannot be ignored by one that is vague on weather or not it can (be outside of 2"). Imho of corse. 

 

Also, the scout rule itself has the word move in it.  So one could argue that redeployment is a movement, bound by all the rules associated with it. 

 

I'm off to paint some bikes  :cool: 

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