JamesBeadle Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 What do you all anticipate the End Times books will effect in the game? Will folks start running large combined armies rather than using the individual Army Books? Combinging VC and TK sounds really neat to me, and loads of fun. I realze most of you are competative/tournaments minded. Would this ruin WHFB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talapas Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I like the combined books. More options and more versatile armies are enjoyable to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savion47 Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I like the combined books. More options and more versatile armies are enjoyable to see. See, I am the opposite way. While combining armies can be fun for a few games, I feel like the 40k model of allies is not where fantasy should be heading. Having strengths and weaknesses in your army make the game more fun. Being able to always make up for an armies shortcomings when building a list does not sound fun to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I'm not talking about allies though. In talking about the combined books. In the End times they've put a list of all the units you can take in the combined armies. I don't like allies either. It leaves huge openings for broken combos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBeadle Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I'm wondering if it will replace the army books as the new standard. Personally I think its fantastic, and hope it does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrek Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I really hope not. Especially if Skaven get added into the Chaos book and it works like the Legion's. That'll be fun. Slaves hold up everything, Warp lightning shooting things down (via Engineer's, Cannon's and Wheels) with chariots and Chimera's to punch anything left over in the face or tries to break through the Slaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I doubt that will happen. The Nagash book references actual books and units from those books. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splinx Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 It didn't break when we had Beastmen, Warriors and Daemons all fighting together and it won't break the game now either. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I love what it brings to WFB. I don't think those books are replacing the army books, at this time though. At the current moment these are just supplements. As far as everyone complaing about broken combo's. Toss me an army book and I'll show you a broken combo in roughly 3-4 days of studying the book. I could come up with broken beyond belief dwarf gunline armies. Ratrek, let's look at your above example of Skaven and WoC: If you are holding back warriors of chaos units (chariots and chimera's) from getting into combat because someone wants to shoot with a warp lightning cannon let them. Guess what's going to happen next, if there are any enemy cannons, war machines, magic, or shooting, then that's extra turns to shoot and magic the chariots and chimera. So your enemy drops a single unit of warriors for rats. How long do you think those rats are going to hold up for with a skaven character in them? Kill the characters leading them and the blob goes bye-bye. Those rats are just extra combat res for most units. How many WoC players do you actually think will be giving up juggernaught points for skaven crap? Maybe an HPA, but as a former Skaven players, that thing is the most unpredictable and unreliable thing next to the doomwheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I don't know if End Times books will replace things, but things will not go back the way they were. Undead legions are here to stay. And I suspect chaos will get cross-pollination, and eventually we'll see any allies matrix for the good armies. Increasing combos increases interest, and people wanting to try new units, and model sales. It makes perfect sense. And frankly, I like it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I think people forget that you were once able to play warriors of chaos and beastmen as well as daemons. This isn't anything new. I also believe the core rules are more solid than the last editions so the combined armies as still balanced. The only stupid thing that came out of End Times was Nagash. He does some crazy [big bad swear word] in the magic phase and can fight some stuff but I'd still take a nurgle daemon prince over nagaash any day of the week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 No. Campaign.books are campaign books. Fun for awhile but always superceded or invalided by new rules. Combined books do not make bottom lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 As I posted in the other thread: I'm not convinced. Yet. I see both sides and am erring on the side of this is not the new face. Having said that, I would not be surprised to see Warhammer go this way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I think this is too big to simply be a "campaign". Let's face it though, warhammer has always been fluid with the time line. In many books, the SC's are already dead. I think this will become a permanent piece of wfb lore. End Times happened. You can play before or after, but it did happen. Now, as to the possibility of new combined books? I think so. I think GW wants to pair down the cycle of WFB. Combined books let them do that. 50% lords...I see that too as staying. Why? because it lets you bring the big toys. Will play styles eventually weed them out? I think so too. There is nothing from stopping you from having an event saying its 25% lords....but by GW opening that door officially, they let people plan new armies...and that means new figures...which translate into sales. Let the fans restrict or not restrict themselves...but by having it officially possible, then you give people a reason to buy more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I feel this is storm of chaos version 2.0. Lots of sales, two years later not legal... Talk to the people with old slayer armies on how they feel about campaign books. This is whfb version of the apocalypse/escalation rules. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Being a still relatively new player to WFB(about a year now) I see this as being a very exciting change.I cant help but compare it to what 40k has gone through in the last couple of years with the settling in of 6th edition that has since evolved into a more refined 7th edition and the addition and full adoption of Escalation and Stronghold Assault. Now I remember last winter when the 40k world was screaming about how Super Heavies were going to be the final nail in the coffin of the game and how all we will see now is Eldar Rev Titan lists fighting each other with the occasional C`tan list slipped in...yeah,,didn't happen,not even close...in fact one would be hard pressed to find ANY list with a Super Heavy that has place top 10% in the popular events nation or world wide even. The same could be said for Allies in 40k,,sure there were some broken combos but the advent of 7th edition has pretty much put a stop to that. The bottom line is yes adding in the ability to mix and match army combos is not only a win for GW money wise but its a win for the players.I know for me the allies matrix in 40k has allowed me to gateway from Orks to IG/AM then onto CSM and now into the awesomeness that is Space Wolves. Now with the End times Im finally breaking away from my OnG`s and moving onto Undead Legions ,sure its two books ive had to pick up but ive always like the TK models and the power of the VC has always impressed me so now I get to mix them!..and who knows what army combos will pop up in the future,who gets to go with the OnGs?..Ogres?...AND I still have a bunch of High Elf models to start my first Order army:) And now with the addition of the 50% L/H players can start an army with far fewer models ,that really helps new players or those wanting to try out a new army...sure they wont be that competitive but at least they can get some hobby action going then build on it from there. As for the new Narrative..im still enthralled in it and will be basing my new Undead Legion on a snapshot of events within....to me this is a great way to be pulled away from the power race of list building and become immersed in the game world experience... Scenario anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Weren't the changes that were made needed for TK to be viable? Isn't it a way to help the tomb kings out without putting out a new codec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Yes, that's why going back is not an option. TK are only viable with the changes made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrek Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 MN, just a quick summary since it appears my browser doesn't let me actually quote a post. 1: Most of what I gleaned from that post is you think a great deal Warriors players are not tactically intelligent and cannot find a way to introduce Slave blocks 2: You don't have to rant on about broken combo's or tactics to me. I was a GW play tester for 5 years and my whole purpose on the team was to find and break books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 1: Most of what I gleaned from that post is you think a great deal Warriors players are not tactically intelligent and cannot find a way to introduce Slave blocks. Well to be honest a tactical game of WoC consists of Push Models Forward, Roll Dice, OverRun, Repeat. And I am only half kidding. Most of the WoC book models have the stats to just run forward without too much maneuvering needed. You want Melee to happen. The only units you don't do this with is Marauders but no one but Raindog brings them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 MN, just a quick summary since it appears my browser doesn't let me actually quote a post. 1: Most of what I gleaned from that post is you think a great deal Warriors players are not tactically intelligent and cannot find a way to introduce Slave blocks 2: You don't have to rant on about broken combo's or tactics to me. I was a GW play tester for 5 years and my whole purpose on the team was to find and break books 1. Not at all, the interwebs just has a way to make statements appear to have different meaning. I just don't see why a WoC player would waste points in rat units. That's pretty much it. 2. I wasn't directing broken combo's or tactics directly at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Well to be honest a tactical game of WoC consists of Push Models Forward, Roll Dice, OverRun, Repeat. And I am only half kidding. Most of the WoC book models have the stats to just run forward without too much maneuvering needed. You want Melee to happen. The only units you don't do this with is Marauders but no one but Raindog brings them. Have you witnessed a horde of mauraders with flails or a horde of mauraders with wulfric? 50 Mauraders with mark of khorne and flails coming at you is nothing to shrug off. 3 ranks pack what 30 S5 attacks? I'm pretty sure their wounds counter their loses for CR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Have you witnessed a horde of mauraders with flails or a horde of mauraders with wulfric? 50 Mauraders with mark of khorne and flails coming at you is nothing to shrug off. 3 ranks pack what 30 S5 attacks? I'm pretty sure their wounds counter their loses for CR. They very well maybe but I have never seen anyone besides Raindog take them. We may see them at OFCC next year because a Chaos Knight/Warrior list will most likely be less than a 10, but till then I don't know much about them. (And I mean both varieties, mounted and on foot.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I ran 120 marauders in 3 hordes. It broke peoples brains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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